WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t disagree, but it’s not all Disney’s marketing. People have changed from the way they were in the 70’s and 80’s.

Everything is faster paced and consumerism has run rampant. Is Disney causing this change or responding to it?

I’d say both

 

[BrianLo]

Start a Disney v. Universal thread. It would take all the Universal stuff out of this thread to make it easier for people who care what Disney costs but couldn't care less about Universal.

Since I started it In part, it’s extremely relevant to the discussion. The trouble is a lot of posters seem to immediately think it’s some sort of fanboy battle. It’s not for me, my trip to Epic is long booked.

As Disney has been found to have hit the price ceiling, their competitor has made an extremely expensive Investment based on the premise they had a longer run way to increase their own prices.

It’s a very friable time for both companies and when you’ve marketed yourself as the cheaper option since the 90s, but your goal was to close the gap on Disney… where does that leave you and the broader market for ongoing lumpy capital heavy investment?

In a not great scenario… which was the only point I was trying to make.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Since I started it In part, it’s extremely relevant to the discussion. The trouble is a lot of posters seem to immediately think it’s some sort of fanboy battle. It’s not for me, my trip to Epic is long booked.

As Disney has been found to have hit the price ceiling, their competitor has made an extremely expensive Investment based on the premise they had a longer run way to increase their own prices.

It’s a very friable time for both companies and when you’ve marketed yourself as the cheaper option since the 90s, but your goal was to close the gap on Disney… where does that leave you and the broader market for ongoing lumpy capital heavy investment?

In a not great scenario… which was the only point I was trying to make.

Yeah, and I don’t think many realize how symbiotic the Disney-Universal relationship is post-Wizarding World.

Universal prices closely track Disney’s on both coasts but now always lag a little bit behind, which is justifiable after Potter. A lot confuse this strategy of pricing tickets and hotels as some sort of compassionate pro-consumer approach — and no, it’s because the demand isn’t there and the cost of a Universal vacation can’t surpass Disney’s. It’s not like the tickets are particularly cheap. A ticket to USF or IOA today is $159, only $20 less than Disneyland. That’s a lot of money!

It puts both companies in a kind of interesting boat. Consumers, for better or worse, see Disney as a superior good. If the prices are equal, more people are going to choose Disney. But then you make investments like Epic while Disney is twiddling their thumbs — can you raise your prices to Magic Kingdom levels? Even if Epic is an unambiguous better-than-Disney hit, I don’t think so.

Disney hitting a price ceiling makes things really weird. Universal is going to need to boost prices sooner or later. But if that happens, will Disney even have an incentive to invest beyond what they’ve already announced? Or are the prices still going to go up?

 

[networkpro]

To me it brings into question exactly how much of the Disney price structure is inflexible ? If the margins are wider than average (as a lot of us suspect) exactly how much is this business segment propping up others are currently not going concerns ?

 

[Chi84]

Since I started it In part, it’s extremely relevant to the discussion. The trouble is a lot of posters seem to immediately think it’s some sort of fanboy battle. It’s not for me, my trip to Epic is long booked.

As Disney has been found to have hit the price ceiling, their competitor has made an extremely expensive Investment based on the premise they had a longer run way to increase their own prices.

It’s a very friable time for both companies and when you’ve marketed yourself as the cheaper option since the 90s, but your goal was to close the gap on Disney… where does that leave you and the broader market for ongoing lumpy capital heavy investment?

In a not great scenario… which was the only point I was trying to make.

No I don’t care. I was just suggesting a way to comply with the mod’s statement that any future Disney versus Universal posts would be deleted.

 

[Ayla]

Maybe some of us just aren’t interested in Universal?

Everyone has different tastes. I wouldn’t criticise someone for choosing Universal over Disney if that’s what actually appeals to them. On the contrary, I would applaud them for spending their hard-earned money in the manner that’s likeliest to make them happy.

I’ll never understand why some here feel the need to pathologise those whose opinions they don’t share. Live and let live.

Good to see you again.

 

[DisneyHead123]

It got too crowded due to them not keeping with capacity. They should have been adding new attractions to each park yearly. Instead they have been playing a game of crowd management and finding ways to lower attendance.

I have mixed feelings on the capacity thing. Of course we'd all like increased capacity and things to do at the parks, but at some point I think they risk spreading themselves too thin - there are already a lot of complaints on here about the customer service now compared to the Disney of the 1970s and 80s, and I think staying staffed and stocked with all the material things they need is probably harder than ever. I don't know what the answer is.

 

[Jrb1979]

I have mixed feelings on the capacity thing. Of course we'd all like increased capacity and things to do at the parks, but at some point I think they risk spreading themselves too thin - there are already a lot of complaints on here about the customer service now compared to the Disney of the 1970s and 80s, and I think staying staffed and stocked with all the material things they need is probably harder than ever. I don't know what the answer is.

That's fair. I feel each park should have roughly the same amount of attractions numbers wise.

I don't think pricing people out is the answer either. IMO Disney's most loyal guest are those in middle to upper middle class. Pushing them out and chasing the 1-10% of the population isn't sustainable. From my view most of those people aren't into Disney or theme parks in general or at least not enough of them to maintain profits

 

[DisneyCane]

Walt's business model was a park that the middle class could afford so that he could attract a high volume of those people and make a good profit.
Because of the reputation earned in Walt's day and the early WDW years, the current company's business model is to charge as much as possible and get people who can't really afford it to vacation there anyway and make even bigger profits.

If Walt had started DL with the current business model WDW probably wouldn't exist.

 

[Laketravis]

If Walt had started DL with the current business model WDW probably wouldn't exist.

When we were all complaining about some aspects of WDW fifteen or twenty years ago, little did we know how much worse it was going to get.

Those days of reasonable resort, QS and TSR prices, DME and FP and EMH and FD and a host of other acronyms seem even more desirable now that they are gone.

I wonder if they were restored what price WDW would have to charge and whether or not it would even be worth it anymore.

 

[DisneyHead123]

That's fair. I feel each park should have roughly the same amount of attractions numbers wise.

I don't think pricing people out is the answer either. IMO Disney's most loyal guest are those in middle to upper middle class. Pushing them out and chasing the 1-10% of the population isn't sustainable. From my view most of those people aren't into Disney or theme parks in general or at least not enough of them to maintain profits

Yes I do think maximizing use of the existing space in the parks could help, and it seems like this is what they're going for now. My guess is that they are also closely watching AI / robotics technology to see how much could potentially be automated in the future. As the entertainment industry expands, I think that the number of people willing to work in customer service will be one of the biggest constraining factors (again, unless some of it ends up getting automated).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To me it brings into question exactly how much of the Disney price structure is inflexible ? If the margins are wider than average (as a lot of us suspect) exactly how much is this business segment propping up others are currently not going concerns ?

They’re relying on their parks revenue to try and boost their stock price…and failing at that.

So the answer to your question is raising prices is NOT an option…it’s mandatory

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So the same posters complaining about posts discussing Universal because it makes the thread hard to follow have now carried on for pages about unusual vocabulary terms.

Disney parks had a really rotten week In the public forum…

Never forget that the first job of the Swiss guard is to protect his eminence…

The lead must be buried…not Fed

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s really stupid to start the “don’t talk about universal…I only care about Disney!!” Stuff here

They are directly tied now…they are in the same two markets and those same two markets only…

And they both are having more trouble in Orlando than nearly any other travel options coming out of the plague

 

[Chi84]

It’s really stupid to start the “don’t talk about universal…I only care about Disney!!” Stuff here

Still - it’s their forum, their rules. Right?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Still - it’s their forum, their rules. Right?

Discussing the cost of travel - in particular Orlando - seems to be well within bounds…

Of all the nonsense that happens, that’s rather minor

But to your point…it pivoted away in due order

 

[StarWarsGirl]

And brag you should!!! I’ve been lucky enough to meet him as well.

I just met him too! I bought a piece of his artwork at Festival of the Arts and had him sign it. I really enjoyed meeting him. He was shocked when I told him I still vaguely remember the original Imagination even though it closed when I was three. I specifically remember the scene with Dreamfinder and Figment riding on the machine. It's funny because I have no memory of Horizons, but I remember that rather clearly.

Oh, and he told me that the track for Dinosaur and Indy at DL are exactly the same. I knew they were similar and the Carnatourus at the end was basically a replacement for the ball rolling over you, but I didn't realize they were exactly the same. Once I went on Dinosaur again, I was like "oh, yeah, I see it now" (I have definitely been on Indy more lately, lol, I have a love affair with that ride).

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Disney parks had a really rotten week In the public forum…

Never forget that the first job of the Swiss guard is to protect his eminence…

The lead must be buried…not Fed

In the 12.5 years I've been here, seems like the forum cycles between "we love Disney" and "Disney is horrible and we hate them."

But I will say since Cheapek, it seems like the latter is the more common sentiment because he just made some poor, poor decisions that still are impacting the parks.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In the 12.5 years I've been here, seems like the forum cycles between "we love Disney" and "Disney is horrible and we hate them."

But I will say since Cheapek, it seems like the latter is the more common sentiment because he just made some poor, poor decisions that still are impacting the parks.

It’s not chapek and never was. He was a clown that had no power

What it really is the parallel between what’s going on now and the 2000 era of Eisner…

Doesn’t mean the person wasn’t right for the job at first…but it’s too long. They have a shelf life

 

[StarWarsGirl]

It’s not chapek and never was. He was a clown that had no power

What it really is the parallel between what’s going on now and the 2000 era of Eisner…

Doesn’t mean the person wasn’t right for the job at first…but it’s too long. They have a shelf life

The long term strategy of cutting costs while not spending money and increasing prices happened under his watch. Eisner spent money, but he wanted it done as cheaply as possible, which resulted in stuff like the carnival Dinoland and the cheaper version of ToT at Disneyland. At least the current strategies require actually investing in the parks, not just buying pre built rides and stuffing them in with some theming.

Though I do agree; Cheapek was a clown.

And my phone thinks his name is Cheapek and not Chapek...