DHS Monster Inc Land Coming to Disney's Hollywood Studios

[Horizons '83]

I don’t necessarily think this is accurate. I think Monsters was designed with Grand Avenue in mind. It makes sense to do that option and don’t blame them for it.

I DO BLAME THEM for doing Monsters before touching Animation Courtyard. They chose what phase one and phase two were. Monsters should have been phase two. People would have been much more forgiving if Animation Courtyard had already been replaced. The only (good) reason it makes sense to do this first is if you’re waiting on the rights for the IP you want to put into Animation Courtyard (Simpsons or Marvel). Just choosing this because it’s cheaper and can be done faster is short-sighted.

From an ops perspective this choice makes no sense. I am not a Muppets lover, though I do enjoy MuppetVision, but we are essentially gaining 1 new attraction (not high capacity) and replacing another. Had AC been chosen we would have a net 2 increase instead of 1. Not to mention destroying Jim Henson's last project. Grand Avenue is going to be a mess, whereas AC is off the main path.

 

[Nevermore525]

From an ops perspective this choice makes no sense. I am not a Muppets lover, though I do enjoy MuppetVision, but we are essentially gaining 1 new attraction (not high capacity) and replacing another. Had AC been chosen we would have a net 2 increase instead of 1. Not to mention destroying Jim Henson's last project. Grand Avenue is going to be a mess, whereas AC is off the main path.

May not have been a net 2 increase with AC. Depends on what the plan would’ve been with the Disney Jr show and Voyage of the Little Mermaid in AC. Either of those could be lost with the full renovation of AC to bring something new to that area.

Going off early concept art it seemed like both would go away for Monstropolis in AC IIRC.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Just some reminders:

When talking about capacity, we have to differentiate between theoretical capacity and operational capacity (the real throughput).

When thinking about how an attraction will affect crowding, we also have to look at how many people will be in the queue and on/in the attraction at a given time (minus the number of additional guests in the park due to the attraction).

For how a land will affect crowds, we should also look at how many people will be in the land at a given time who would’ve contributed to crowding elsewhere in the park (e.g., more people spending time in Monstropolis than were spending time in Muppets Courtyard), but then also take into account how it will affect crowd patterns (e.g., Monstropolis causing Grand Avenue to become a pinch-point).

My guesses are:
-For a while after opening, Monstropolis will increase attendance/crowds, which most notably might result in some potential crowd-flow issues around Grand Avenue initially.
-Once the area/coaster is no longer new, it will help distribute crowds more evenly throughout the park by pulling more people into that area than the number of people that were spending time in Muppets Courtyard, which will be a boon for overall guest experience/satisfaction with DHS relative to how they are now.

(None of the above comments are related to whether or not Montropolis should have been put here or in AC, or whether it’s enough, or even whether it’s the right addition at all. And I’m certainly not suggesting that it will solve all of the park’s capacity/crowding problems, only that it should—after a while—mitigate them to some degree relative to the current situation.)

 

[Disstevefan1]

My frustration is we are at least 5 to 7 years away from seeing any of this. In the case of the new theater show Disney does not even know what they are going to do.

I wish Disney didn’t announce things that may happen so far in advance.

 

[GoofGoof]

My frustration is we are at least 5 to 7 years away from seeing any of this. In the case of the new theater show Disney does not even know what they are going to do.

I wish Disney didn’t announce things that may happen so far in advance.

I am not sure it will be that that long. When the original announcement was made the expectation was that construction for Monsters would begin in 2025. I have not seen anyone suggest otherwise more recently.

The Future of Disney Parks: Everything You Need to Know from D23 2024

The Future of Disney Parks: Everything You Need to Know from D23 2024

www.wdwmagic.com

I cannot imagine Monsters Land takes more than 3 years to build since there is not a lot of demo to do (1 gift shop and some backstage stuff) and only 1 new ride. So that puts Monsters into 2028 maybe 2029 if they really stretch things. I was assuming Tropical Americas 2027, Monsters 2028, Cars 2029 and Villians 2030. The last 2 have substantial demo and a lot more moving parts so could easily slip. Monsters should be next after AK. The Muppet overlay of RNRC shouldn’t take very long either. Depends on whether they do it before or after Monsters opens but either way everything related to Monsters/Muppets will be done sooner than 5-7 years from now.

The future, unannounced project for AC area could be 5-7 years out or could never get greenlit. Who knows. It’s all speculation right now.

 

[GoofGoof]

Just some reminders:

When talking about capacity, we have to differentiate between theoretical capacity and operational capacity (the real throughput).

When thinking about how an attraction will affect crowding, we also have to look at how many people will be in the queue and on/in the attraction at a given time (minus the number of additional guests in the park due to the attraction).

For how a land will affect crowds, we should also look at how many people will be in the land at a given time who would’ve contributed to crowding elsewhere in the park (e.g., more people spending time in Monstropolis than were spending time in Muppets Courtyard), but then also take into account how it will affect crowd patterns (e.g., Monstropolis causing Grand Avenue to become a pinch-point).

My guesses are:
-For a while after opening, Monstropolis will increase attendance/crowds, which most notably might result in some potential crowd-flow issues around Grand Avenue initially.
-Once the area/coaster is no longer new, it will help distribute crowds more evenly throughout the park by pulling more people into that area than the number of people that were spending time in Muppets Courtyard, which will be a boon for overall guest experience/satisfaction with DHS relative to how they are now.

(None of the above comments are related to whether or not Montropolis should have been put here or in AC, or whether it’s enough, or even whether it’s the right addition at all. And I’m certainly not suggesting that it will solve all of the park’s capacity/crowding problems, only that it should—after a while—mitigate them to some degree relative to the current situation.)

Your guesses seem very reasonable. One other aspect impacted is availability of LL reservations. Adding 1 additional ride to LL will likely result in better availability for other rides. This should be true across the parks as new rides come online. Soarin was a tier 1 attraction when the original FP+ came out and even now with TT closed has a tone of LL capacity due to Guardians, Rat and Frozen drawing a lot more interest.

 

[EagleScout610]

I'm wondering if they'd possibly retheme RNRC to Electric Mayhem before they shutter MuppetVision? I can't imagine RNRC would take more than a year to retheme, so if they shut it down after summer 2025, that puts Muppets closing in 2026. Prevents there being a span of no Muppets at all in DHS.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Do we know if the Door Coaster is going to be very low in capacity versus other coasters at WDW? The LL revenue is definitely an important factor in any new park addition.

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

Do we know if the Door Coaster is going to be very low in capacity versus other coasters at WDW? The LL revenue is definitely an important factor in any new park addition.

The concept art appears to show 8-10 guests. so it will be lower capacity to the other WDW coasters, but decent overall capacity depending on how frequently the trains are dispatched. But if it was too low capacity, it wouldn't be at the stage of Disney saying it will get built. Remember, Disney killed the quinjet Avengers E ticket because the capacity was below par.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Do we know if the Door Coaster is going to be very low in capacity versus other coasters at WDW? The LL revenue is definitely an important factor in any new park addition.

The Vekoma suspended family is pretty low output in the standard model. Around 700-750 per hour based on installed versions. We're assuming they are making enhancements like the dual elevator lift and a longer custom layout. But I would assume that can only increase it so much.

Tron is about 1650-1700 per hour for reference.

 

[celluloid]

The concept art appears to show 8-10 guests.

Longer trains than that

 

[Brer Panther]

He was considered for a cameo in Haunted Mansion, but since they don’t have an active puppet he would have to be rebuilt. Which would have been too expensive for that project. On top of that, Bean doesn’t have a performer currently due to Whitmire’s “departure.”

Even before Steve got kicked out, we haven't seen Bean since an online short from around 2007.

The Family Guy wrong sounding Muppets bit rings eternal. It's hard for people to get attached to an IP if they all feel the main character feels "wrong".

Only for the Muppets, it seems. Didn't hurt the DuckTales reboot, the Mario movie, the Chip 'n' Dale movie, the first Space Jam, the Chris Pratt Garfield movie, literally any Scooby-Doo production with Matthew Lillard lending his voice to it, or Jellystone!. I think the only reason people complain about the Muppets "sounding wrong" is that stupid Family Guy joke - I never see anyone complain that Scrooge "sounds wrong" in the DuckTales reboot even though David Tennant doesn't sound anything like Alan Young.

And for what it's worth, Seth MacFarlane's Muppet impressions are far, far worse than Matt Vogel's Kermit. You can't listen to this and tell me this weird fusion of the bear from The Cleveland Show and a bad Marvin the Martian impression sounds like Kermit at all:

​

Vogel hasn’t had any opportunity to get a handle on Kermit.

He did have the live shows at the Hollywood Bowl and the O2. You can find videos of those online.

If there's one thing that's important to a character, it's the voice.

And the folks in Hollywood don't seem to understand that. Which is how we get, again, Chris Pratt as Garfield or John Mulaney and Andy Samberg as Chip and Dale.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I am not sure it will be that that long. When the original announcement was made the expectation was that construction for Monsters would begin in 2025. I have not seen anyone suggest otherwise more recently.

The Future of Disney Parks: Everything You Need to Know from D23 2024

The Future of Disney Parks: Everything You Need to Know from D23 2024

www.wdwmagic.com

I cannot imagine Monsters Land takes more than 3 years to build since there is not a lot of demo to do (1 gift shop and some backstage stuff) and only 1 new ride. So that puts Monsters into 2028 maybe 2029 if they really stretch things. I was assuming Tropical Americas 2027, Monsters 2028, Cars 2029 and Villians 2030. The last 2 have substantial demo and a lot more moving parts so could easily slip. Monsters should be next after AK. The Muppet overlay of RNRC shouldn’t take very long either. Depends on whether they do it before or after Monsters opens but either way everything related to Monsters/Muppets will be done sooner than 5-7 years from now.

The future, unannounced project for AC area could be 5-7 years out or could never get greenlit. Who knows. It’s all speculation right now.

Let’s see what happens. I personally have no faith they can to anything in a timely manner, I remember it felt like it took forever for Pandora and of course we all know how long it took for the EPCOT mistake to be completed ( I know, pandemic, bla, bla, bla)

I am happy to be wrong on this one. It’s going to take at least three years from (starting some time in 2025?) to find out.

 

[osian]

So...assuming Mama Melrose becomes Harryhausen's....

Considering all the rumours flying around, for my recent trip a month ago I made a point of grabbing a reservation at Mama Melrose as it was somewhere I hadn't got to yet. I thought it was a lovely restaurant and I had a great meal.

I'm not familiar with the movie franchise, so I looked it up and apparently Harryhausen's is a sushi restaurant, pan-Asian generally.

So are we expecting this in the new Monstropolis land, that what was Italian before now becomes Asian?

 

[GoofGoof]

Let’s see what happens. I personally have no faith they can to anything in a timely manner, I remember it felt like it took forever for Pandora and of course we all know how long it took for the EPCOT mistake to be completed ( I know, pandemic, bla, bla, bla)

I am happy to be wrong on this one. It’s going to take at least three years from (starting some time in 2025?) to find out.

I think most of the time the delays are not an accident. They delay things to spread out costs. However, in this case the money has been “spent”, meaning Wall Street already has that cash outflow factored in to results for at least the next 5 years which of course includes the other parks and cruise ships but WDW will have some new competition down the road so they have good incentives to follow through. The stuff after Villians that hasn’t been formally announced is much less likely to happen. Not saying it won‘t but there’s a lot of time. Obviously any plans can change or be cancelled if there’s a major economic downturn or something as disruptive as covid again. Potential labor shortages could delay some of this work too, but Disney has to be preparing for that.

As far as Pandora, there was a long delay between announcement and open of the land but the construction phase was the standard 3+ years from ground break to open. Disney entered into the licensing agreement with Fox and Cameron in September 2011 for the theme park rights to Avatar. Since this was a substantial agreement between 2 public companies it had to be disclosed publicly in SEC filings at the end of that quarter anyway (9/30/11) so they went public with the news long before any design was complete. It wasn’t until January 2014 that they broke ground on the land and it opened in May 2017 so 3 years and 4 months of actual construction. Time from announcement until opening was just short of 6 years but there were reasons for that.

If they don’t break ground on these projects in the next year then I’d say the timeline is almost certain to slip. I don’t see any of them taking less than 3 years to build.

 

[GoofGoof]

So...assuming Mama Melrose becomes Harryhausen's....

Considering all the rumours flying around, for my recent trip a month ago I made a point of grabbing a reservation at Mama Melrose as it was somewhere I hadn't got to yet. I thought it was a lovely restaurant and I had a great meal.

I'm not familiar with the movie franchise, so I looked it up and apparently Harryhausen's is a sushi restaurant, pan-Asian generally.

So are we expecting this in the new Monstropolis land, that what was Italian before now becomes Asian?

That is the theory most here believe will be true. Disney didn’t officially announce it but I can’t see them keeping the menu Italian. I do wonder if they will re-imagine a different restaurant in the park to Italian since it’s generally pretty popular. If you are looking for a good Italian meal nearby the place on the board walk is pretty good. It’s a short boat or skyway ride away.

It‘s also unknown what will happen to the quick service location that is currently Pizza Rizzo. That could stay pizza and just get rethemed to Monsters. It’s gone from Toy Story Pizza Planet to Muppets so a re-theme is possible. It’s also possible they redo it to something completely different. Kids and Pizza are always a winning combo but that is some below average pizza for sure. I’m hoping for a menu upgrade.

 

[flyerjab]

I am not sure it will be that that long. When the original announcement was made the expectation was that construction for Monsters would begin in 2025. I have not seen anyone suggest otherwise more recently.

The Future of Disney Parks: Everything You Need to Know from D23 2024

The Future of Disney Parks: Everything You Need to Know from D23 2024

www.wdwmagic.com

I cannot imagine Monsters Land takes more than 3 years to build since there is not a lot of demo to do (1 gift shop and some backstage stuff) and only 1 new ride. So that puts Monsters into 2028 maybe 2029 if they really stretch things. I was assuming Tropical Americas 2027, Monsters 2028, Cars 2029 and Villians 2030. The last 2 have substantial demo and a lot more moving parts so could easily slip. Monsters should be next after AK. The Muppet overlay of RNRC shouldn’t take very long either. Depends on whether they do it before or after Monsters opens but either way everything related to Monsters/Muppets will be done sooner than 5-7 years from now.

The future, unannounced project for AC area could be 5-7 years out or could never get greenlit. Who knows. It’s all speculation right now.

What I like about this is the similarity it has to 2009 up to the pandemic. There is a plan in place for new offerings each year, with new lands, rides and experiences to drive both new and repeat attendance.

2025 has the news parade, ToL show, new Little Mermaid show and Test Track 3.0. I would their the new Poly tower in there also.

2026 - I have no idea, aside from maybe the Lakeside Lodge DVC.

But between 2027 through 2029, we have Tropical Americas, Monstropolis, Cars Land and Villians Land. Add in a fully refurbed BTM and I am assuming a new drone show somewhere, along with new dining/shopping in DS as places close.

I love the schedule of new experiences spread out over multiple years. I remember back in 2014 through the end of 2019, it seemed like there was a constant string of new offerings. We started going so frequently that we added on to our DVC during that time and purchased our annual passes. Looking forward to all this new stuff again. And with Epic Universe opening, that will have us going to Florida even more. Fun times!

 

[GoofGoof]

What I like about this is the similarity it has to 2009 up to the pandemic. There is a plan in place for new offerings each year, with new lands, rides and experiences to drive both new and repeat attendance.

2025 has the news parade, ToL show, new Little Mermaid show and Test Track 3.0. I would their the new Poly tower in there also.

2026 - I have no idea, aside from maybe the Lakeside Lodge DVC.

But between 2027 through 2029, we have Tropical Americas, Monstropolis, Cars Land and Villians Land. Add in a fully refurbed BTM and I am assuming a new drone show somewhere, along with new dining/shopping in DS as places close.

I love the schedule of new experiences spread out over multiple years. I remember back in 2014 through the end of 2019, it seemed like there was a constant string of new offerings. We started going so frequently that we added on to our DVC during that time and purchased our annual passes. Looking forward to all this new stuff again. And with Epic Universe opening, that will have us going to Florida even more. Fun times!

For theme park fans agnostic to brand the rest of this decade will have a ton of new stuff to do in Orlando between Epic in 2025 and the potential Epic phase 2 later this decade plus all of the Disney additions between 2027 and 2030. Should be a fun time assuming no major economic downturns derail things. I am also looking forward to getting out to DLR to see all the new stuff there as well.

 

[Ice Gator]

I feel like adding Alien and Planet of the Apes to DHS would be a great way to set it apart from MK

I wouldn’t be opposed to this in the future. It would set DHS apart from the other parks and it kind of already is the “thrill ride” theme park with IP themed lands. We already had Alien in GMR, so why not? Anything but more Star Wars, Frozen, Moana, etc.

 

[flyerjab]

For theme park fans agnostic to brand the rest of this decade will have a ton of new stuff to do in Orlando between Epic in 2025 and the potential Epic phase 2 later this decade plus all of the Disney additions between 2027 and 2030. Should be a fun time assuming no major economic downturns derail things. I am also looking forward to getting out to DLR to see all the new stuff there as well.

Agreed. My wife and I finally took a west coast trip this summer. We did Aulani, Disneyland and California Adventure. Disneyland was pure, unadulterated magic. And we had the best time exploring Downtown Disney and DCA.

We are now including the Disneyland area in our annual travel plans now. I am just as excited for the expansion plans out West.

To use your term, I am not a legacy fan, so nostalgia of a company from the 50s through the 80s doesn’t impact my expectations of the parks. It ceased being Walt’s concepts a long time ago It would seem. I guess these forums have become a place for commiserating for some. For me, I am still wowed but what they do and can’t wait to see beyond 2030.