Yes. Mix the main character being off model in voice and tone and writing typically off you ruined what is essentially as timeless as a property can get.
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DHS Monster Inc Land Coming to Disney's Hollywood Studios
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
If it's good, we can accept it. I remember liking Goof Troop and wondering how they could get Max's voice so wrong with A Goofy Movie. But then I saw the film, and I stopped caring because it's great.
Moth
Well-Known Member
A good performance, especially one that fits the setting they're going for, can make a lot of complaints vanish into thin air. The issue with the current Kermit is that the voice just feels, bored? It lacks an Energy that Henson and Whitmire had. He feels too much like a Boss character and not much like a friend.
When I see a performance done by Whitmire and Henson, he feels like a friend, Kermit feels like an alive, dynamic character, when I see the performance done by Vogel it just feels flat, and it's disappointing because Vogel is a good performer, he's just not the choice they should have done for Kermit.
The Leader of the Club
Well-Known Member
The thing is, Whitmire doesn’t sound like Henson. At all. BUT Whitmire was given enough projects that he was able to get a grasp on the character and audiences were given time to adjust. I still think he sounds off in Christmas Carol, but by Treasure Island he’s come into his own and it doesn’t bother me.
Vogel hasn’t had any opportunity to get a handle on Kermit. He’s barely in Muppets Now, not in Mayhem at all, has 3 scenes in Haunted Mansion, and other than that it’s just YouTube videos and D23 panels.
He needs the chance to really bring the character into his own, and the he just hasn’t gotten that. I don’t know if he ever will given how hard it is to get substantial Muppet projects green lit.
See the second part with the writing.
That is not how Disney handled The Muppets nor its Main Character.
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Charlie The Chatbox Ghost
Well-Known Member
If there's one thing that's important to a character, it's the voice. It's why people always have a hard time when a legacy character gets a new VA- Mickey, Bugs Bunny, even recently with Mario and Luigi. The voice is what really makes a character.
Charlie The Chatbox Ghost
Well-Known Member
In that case, you can at least chalk it up to the character being much older in the movie than the TV show, so the voice difference makes sense. I saw the movie before the show so the show was jarring to me!
Charlie The Chatbox Ghost
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Whitmire never sounded like Henson, but his voice still FEELS like Kermit. He has the nuances and performance down, plus he was Kermit for nearly 30 years, which allows people to get used to the difference. Vogel is much closer voice-wise to Henson, at least in pitch (though he's a little deeper than Jim), but his Kermit still sounds off. He doesn't have the right "rubbery" quality to his voice, it's too clear.
Moth
Well-Known Member
I don't envy where Vogel is right now in regards to Kermit.
I pray that the outcry in regards to MV3D gave Disney some sort of signal that there's a thirst for these characters to be shown more, that people love these characters. I want Vogel to get his break out role as Kermit, I want to see him succeed and thrive as Kermit. I wish I could take the RNRC retheme as a sign Disney wants to invest in the Muppets more, but I'm aware it's a placating move. It sucks, I'm 21 but I've grown up my whole life surrounded by Henson properties, from Bear in the Big Blue House, Sesame Street, Dinosaurs, Dark Crystal, and the Muppets, and it's just saddening to see the Muppets get treated like a circus trick by Disney versus a brand they want to nurture.
Maybe things have to die, but if we can see Toy Story 5 and ten trillion attempts being talked about for another Star Wars trilogy, we can get another Muppet project greenlit, and if anything sounds appealing to the cut throat executives running Disney currently, it's a film that sells itself as...
The Cheapest Muppet Movie Ever Made.
Horizons '83
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
There might be a little bias from your end based on your avatar, but there was a very clear right and wrong choice on where to place this "land"/area.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
You realize the “wrong sounding Muppets” bit is about Whitmire, right?
Not to split too fine a hair, but Harryhausen's should technically be called "Ray's."
It's Disney. It should be Harry House Inn.
The Leader of the Club
Well-Known Member
I don’t necessarily think this is accurate. I think Monsters was designed with Grand Avenue in mind. It makes sense to do that option and don’t blame them for it.
I DO BLAME THEM for doing Monsters before touching Animation Courtyard. They chose what phase one and phase two were. Monsters should have been phase two. People would have been much more forgiving if Animation Courtyard had already been replaced. The only (good) reason it makes sense to do this first is if you’re waiting on the rights for the IP you want to put into Animation Courtyard (Simpsons or Marvel). Just choosing this because it’s cheaper and can be done faster is short-sighted.
JackCH
Well-Known Member
I also wouldn’t mind if they start demolition of AC simultaneously with beginning work on MI. That way, the time frame for AC will feel shorter once it is announced.
But it seems like that isn’t going to happen, so it’ll still be “an extra year” whenever they announce the AC project. Which makes no sense to me.
Yeah. We know who it is based on. (I own The 2000s box set)But no one is going to call it that for short around forums. Nor will Disney for obvious reasons.
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doctornick
Well-Known Member
This is exactly where I’m at. I actually have no problems with the details of these plans. My main issue is doing this now, as opposed to tearing down Animation and building an actual substantial expansion in that area first. The part really would work best by using that are as the next place to build which can expand total offerings and improve guest flow by connecting to the RNR area
GoofGoof
Premium Member
From a business prospective it makes some sense though. I don’t like it, but that’s not relevant to the bean counters. Muppet Courtyard was under performing financially. The restaurants did OK probably but likely could do better. The gift shops had limited hours which tells you what you need to know. There were no LL sales generated from the area. Most of the operating and maintenance costs from the area will remain about the same except for uptick in hours for shops and of course the Door Coaster itself. So the park operations group only sees a minor increase in operating costs (salaries, upkeep, maintenance on the infrastructure) with the exception of Door Coaster but that cost exists no matter where you put the ride.
If they used AC location but kept Muppets Courtyard then they would add more to the operating budget. You would eliminate the costs of Launch Bay and anything else closed there but you would also lose the intercompany revenue generated from renting out office space to other departments. Park operations also uses some of that office space for its own employees so they would then need to potentially pay rent somewhere else if they relocate the workers. It’s not something most park fans consider but it’s a factor in how decisions are made.
The delay in starting the potential AC project probably has a lot more to do with spreading capital costs over the full decade. They were not going to spend the whole capital budget all at once and we all know Disney has a long track record of spreading projects over multiple years to manage the cash flow budget. AK is happening first and they are also stating that ground will be broken next year for MK. They are not going to demo the AC area, losing Launch Bay and possibly a show or 2 plus the office space if whatever they add isn’t going to break ground until 2027 or 2028 when some of the other projects start to wrap up. As park fans we just need to hope there’s no economic slow down or other financial issues with TWDC that results in a pull back of that capital spend. If that happens AC could be delayed indefinitely.
Moth
Well-Known Member
Well, yeah! But now-a-days you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of diehards who'd diss Whitmire like that.
And more to your point. It has declined by degrees a bridge too far.
As explained. Vogel is not even the same character.