Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Disney Irish]

Yep. And was that by Disney animation? Nope. A other Rival. Sony.

Didn't say it was a Disney movie. But your claim was this about Panda 4 :

Besides the other Illumination and Dreamworks films(which it will be close to PussnBoots by the time it is done in theaters) it is the highest grossing animation film in years.

Which is not true, as another animated movie not name Mario by another studio that wasn't Illumination or Dreamworks was the highest grossing animated film just last year. Panda 4 won't even sniff anywhere close to what Spider-Verse did. I'm even questioning if Panda 4 will do better than Elemental, which got $495M.

 

[celluloid]

I certainly start to wonder if someone's eyes or sensabilities work when they say that Spiderverse also made 700 million, a quadruple of its production budget. A Sony Animated film.

And admitting Dreamworks and Illumination have had the highest profitable animation hits and higher numbers.

And somehow, the same person who said it is not rosy for anyone.

If Illumination, Dreamworks and Sony are all movie studios that have animated movies more than quadrupling their production cost in box office numbers....

I think it is not rosy for one major animation-based studio that had releases.

 

[Disney Irish]

I certainly start to wonder if someone's eyes or sensabilities work when they say that Spiderverse also made 700 million, a quadruple of its production budget. A Sony Animated film.

And admitting Dreamworks and Illumination have had the highest profitable animation hits and higher numbers.

And somehow, the same person who said it is not rosy for anyone.

If Illumination, Dreamworks and Sony are all movie studios that have movies more than quadrupling their production cost in box office numbers....

I think it is not rosy for one major animation-based studio that had releases.

If you're going to start taking stabs at me at least be decent enough to quote me in it lol.

Dreamworks, Illumination, and Sony Animation has been killing it the last couple years. No one, certainly not me, has EVER claimed otherwise.

 

[celluloid]

If you're going to start taking stabs at me at least be decent enough to quote me in it lol.

Dreamworks, Illumination, and Sony Animation has been killing it the last couple years. No one, certainly not me, has EVER claimed otherwise.

but you said it was not rosy for anyone.

So it has been rosy for Universal's animation.

Sony's animation has had success.

Its all pretty rosy with those quadrupling their production budgets at the box office. not a single one of Disney's animated releases could do that. (And really, not just limited to animation. Plenty of their live actions could not either)


A solid definition of rosy is for most of a studio's releases do rake in four times the amount at the box office of what it cost. No matter what weird rule of thumb you would use.



I try not to quote you much anymore because false info is bad enough when posted once.

When/If Inside out 2 or Moana can strike a quadruple the budget total. Then you can say Disney is getting back to rosy.

 

[Disney Irish]

but you said it was not rosy for anyone.

So it has been rosy for Universal's animation.

Sony's animation has had success.

Its all pretty rosy with those quadrupling their production budgets at the box office.


A solid definition of rosy.



I try not to quote you much anymore because false info is bad enough when posted once.

What I said was that when using inflation numbers things don't look as rosy. Meaning that one can start to see cracks in the numbers such as showing when a franchise starts to have fatigue, which was my whole point in this whole conversation we've been having.

No where did I clam that your beloved Uni wasn't having a good box office run as you make it seem.

 

[celluloid]

What I said was that when using inflation numbers things don't look as rosy. Meaning that one can start to see cracks in the numbers such as showing when a franchise starts to have fatigue, which was my whole point in this whole conversation we've been having.

No where did I clam that your beloved Uni wasn't having a good box office run as you make it seem.

Inflation does not change the math. The ratio of dollars of four times the production budget. Not many expect a fourth installment to be seen by more eyes in theaters than the third.


The point was not that Uni is doing great with animation, although they are. Kung Fu Panda is certainly wild that it is doing so well for a fourth installment of something that is not Shrek or How to Train Your Dragon for Dreamworks, and as old as it is as a franchise.

The point is. If you inflate all numbers. It is plenty rosy for many right now. They are making movies that are making monies and among the occasional flop venture, have far more hits and major hits.

Disney is struggling with all of their genres and mediums now.

The live action family film
The animated abstract
The animated princess musical
The Marvel character sequel
The horror legacy.

Even the re-release, another old standby for them.


I guess we can see what current sci fi does for them with Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes.

 

[Disney Irish]

Inflation does not change the math. The ratio of dollars of four times the production budget. Not many expect a fourth installment to be seen by more eyes in theaters than the third.


The point was not that Uni is doing great with animation, although they are. Kung Fu Panda is certainly wild that it is doing so well for a fourth installment of something that is not Shrek or How to Train Your Dragon for Dreamworks, and as old as it is as a franchise.

The point is. If you inflate all numbers. It is plenty rosy for many right now. They are making movies that are making monies and among the occasional flop venture, have far more hits and major hits.

Disney is struggling with all of the genres and mediums now.

The live action family film
The animated abstract
The animated princess musical
The Marvel character sequel
The horror legacy.

Even the re-release, another old standby for them.


I guess we can see what current sci fi does for them with Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes.

I'm not inflating any numbers myself, this is how thing work. Everyone agrees to use inflation adjusted numbers when doing comparisons of movies from prior years. If you don't want to use those numbers, that is up to you. But the inflation adjusted numbers keeps everything honest.

And yes Panda 4 is doing good for a 4th installment in a franchise, never my point or in doubt. My whole point continues to be that it appears the franchise is losing its luster. And taking that to the next point, I don't know if a 5th one which is rumored will do as well as even the 4th. That is all I've been saying.

Also you know you don't have to keep bringing up how bad Disney has done recently as some defense. We all know what Disney has done recently. Keep it to the conversation we've been having without devolving back to "Disney bad".

 

[celluloid]

I'm not inflating any numbers myself, this is how thing work. Everyone agrees to use inflation adjusted numbers when doing comparisons of movies from prior years. If you don't want to use those numbers, that is up to you. But the inflation adjusted numbers keeps everything honest.

And yes Panda 4 is doing good for a 4th installment in a franchise, never my point or in doubt. My whole point continues to be that it appears the franchise is losing its luster. And taking that to the next point, I don't know if a 5th one which is rumored will do as well as even the 4th. That is all I've been saying.

Also you know you don't have to keep bringing up how bad Disney has done recently as some defense. We all know what Disney has done recently. Keep it to the conversation we've been having without devolving back to "Disney bad".

You keep saying things like up to you. You can inflate them all. Or not inflate them all.

What is funny about inflation, is you also admit that 85 million does not go as far as it used to. So that means Universal made a widely successful animated film for theaters with less budget than it would traditionally have, as Disney's money spent on movies continues to skyrocket. Kung Fu Panda would have been a hit even if the thing cost 100 million plus. Yet they did not.

When we inflate all the numbers. Disney is doing just as bad. Universal and others are still doing bangers in a world where Disney is not. Which is the present.

Every new thing Disney comes out with is bad, so it is the recurring theme. The First Omen is just the most recent underperformer.

Maybe Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes will do 700 million globally? We will see.

 

[Disney Irish]

You keep saying things like up to you.

When we inflate all the numebrs. Disney is doing just as bad. Universal and others are still doing bangers in a world where Disney is not. Which is the present.

Every new thing Disney comes out with is bad, so it is the recurring theme. The First Omen is just the most recent underperformer.

Maybe Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes will do 700 million globally? We will see.

Again never my point and you still don't have to devolve back to "Disney bad" for every rebuttal.

We'll see how Apes does. Omen is not done just yet, so we'll have to see where it ends up.

 

[celluloid]

Again never my point and you still don't have to devolve back to "Disney bad" for every rebuttal.

We'll see how Apes does. Omen is not done just yet, so we'll have to see where it ends up.

Neither is Kung Fu Panda.
I do when you depict "no one is rosy when we use inflation"

Disney is just sucking eggs worse with inflation.

It is funny that you say you don't even think Kung Fu Panda will past Elemental's total(it very likely will. It already surpassed it by far domestically as it keeps playing well)

But The First Omen underperforming is a let's wait, and see?

 

[Disney Irish]

Neither is Kung Fu Panda.
I do when you depict "no one is rosy when we use inflation"

Disney is just sucking eggs worse with inflation.

That is not what I said, so if you're going to quote me at least get it right.

Panda 4 may end up at ~$470M WW by the end of its run, which would be good.

Also no one claimed that Disney was any better when using inflation adjusted numbers. So again you don't have to devolve into this "Disney bad" defense.

 

[celluloid]

That is not what I said, so if you're going to quote me at least get it right.

Panda 4 may end up at ~$470M WW by the end of its run, which would be good.

Also no one claimed that Disney was any better when using inflation adjusted numbers. So again you don't have to devolve into this "Disney bad" defense.

No defense about it. It is fact.
470 million for a movie that cost 85 is fantastic. Not really just good. Particularly astounding for a fourth installment of a 16-year-old franchise that's previous films cost more to produce. Not a common thing. Dreamworks' restructuring is very unique.

 

[Disney Irish]

No defense about it. It is fact.

How about just stop with the constant bringing up how bad Disney has done when discussing anything else. We know what Disney has done, no need to bring up again and again and again especially when we are discussing another movie. Just keep it to the discussion at hand. Thanks.

470 million for a movie that cost 85 is fantastic. Particularly astounding for a fourth installment of a 16-year-old franchise that's previous films cost more to produce.

Yes it would be good. Or if it doesn't make another dime, it'll still be good. Nothing I said ever disputed that. It seems you took the "franchise fatigue" comment as a slight, which it wasn't.

 

[celluloid]

How about just stop with the constant bringing up how bad Disney has done when discussing anything else. We know what Disney has done, no need to bring up again and again and again especially when we are discussing another movie. Just keep it to the discussion at hand. Thanks.


Yes it would be good. Or if it doesn't make another dime, it'll still be good. Nothing I said ever disputed that fact. It seems you took the "franchise fatigue" comment as a slight, which it wasn't.

The entire thread is Disney and others at the box office. That is part of the discussion, particularly when you compared it to Elemental.

So is this a do as I say not do as I do kind of thing?

 

[Disney Irish]

The entire thread is Disney and others at the box office. That is part of the discussion, particularly when you compared it to Elemental.

So is this a do as I say not do as I do kind of thing?

Alright, have a good night. We'll discuss other topics another time.

 

[celluloid]

Alright, have a good night. We'll discuss other topics another time.

Let's try this. Do you think that Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes will likely reach 700 million globally?

 

[Disney Irish]

Let's try this. Do you think that Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes will likely reach 700 million globally?

If I'm being honest, no probably not. I think it'll probably do between $450M-$600M WW.

 

[DKampy]

Yep. And was that by Disney animation? Nope. Another competitor. Sony.

Everything is a competition with you… no matter what film people bring up you have to turn it around about how Disney is bad… some of us enjoy good films no matter the studio… no one ever claimed Spiderverse was a Disney movie

 

[celluloid]

Everything is a competition with you… no matter what film people bring up you have to turn it around about how Disney is bad… some of us enjoy good films no matter the studio… no one ever claimed Spiderverse was a Disney movie

That's fine. The discussion before was talking about the current trends and box office relevance. It's a box office thread after all. So it is rather appropriate discussion. More than coincidence when not one Disney animated film can do what the others are doing.

So yes, a thread title that says Disney, and others at the box office will often have discussion based on competition in the industry.

Disney is not bad nor good. They are performing badly, as others perform better, at the box office.

 

[BrianLo]

Its all pretty rosy with those quadrupling their production budgets at the box office. not a single one of Disney's animated releases could do that. (And really, not just limited to animation. Plenty of their live actions could not either)

A solid definition of rosy is for most of a studio's releases do rake in four times the amount at the box office of what it cost. No matter what weird rule of thumb you would use.

When/If Inside out 2 or Moana can strike a quadruple the budget total. Then you can say Disney is getting back to rosy.

I realize this is a numbers thread and you are legitimately an Illumination/Dreamworks fan (I am not)... but why are we so obsessive about this.

Illumination offshores its production, pays its animators less, uses accounting practices to shift studio costs out of the film budgets and spends the same marketing as Disney by and large (which is often poorly accounted for in these discussions).

But at the end of the day... so what? Do people want Disney and Pixar to offshore? They want the companies to pay the animators less? They want Disney to "produce cheaper films"... ok, but how?

Why has this thread become the champions of destroying the Disney/Pixar culture and celebrating other studios, whom I'll leave my opinion off about their general quality of their output. Its become the antithesis of a movie fan thread and the champions of the budget minded executives thread. I'm not talking about the general box office component or reception, I'm talking about the obsession with budgets and ROI. Or celebrating Animated film sequel 4/5. Yay?

Even the head of Illumination doesn't advocate for other studios to follow his model, he comments it would destroy their culture. A cheap film studio needs to be built from the ground up.

PS: I liked Mario and Migration, the latter was a nice cute film.