Yes, with inflation.
More to the point...
Astounding that in the current theatrical climate, a 4th Kung Fu Panda film is going to top the third. With less than half the production budget. Not a thing that happens often.
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Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs
- Thread starter Disney Analyst
- Start date
Yes, with inflation.
More to the point...
Astounding that in the current theatrical climate, a 4th Kung Fu Panda film is going to top the third. With less than half the production budget. Not a thing that happens often.
BuddyThomas
Well-Known Member
I saw it yesterday and thought it was excellent.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
What I think it also shows is that the franchise is actually long in the tooth and not as popular as it once was. That is not to take anything away from it, it’s just showing signs of fatigue just like all franchises do.
Also we have to use inflation numbers, because anytime someone tries to do that with a Disney movie it gets called out. So got to play fair here, use inflation numbers across the board, things don’t look as rosy for anyone.
That is interesting you see it that way. It is a revival in the right direction for Dreamworks if anything.
There is a reason Universal was conservative with its budget and placed new creative leadership. They carefully crafted revivals.
Besides the other Illumination and Dreamworks films(which it will be close to PussnBoots by the time it is done in theaters) it is the highest grossing animation film in years.
People said thing the same about Shrek related Intellectual Property, and PussnBoots just had a come back as a spin off character to prove it can be done well.
For sure there is some natural Fatigue. But it is not the same sudden fatigue that other major properties saw last year where their sequels could not reach half of the box office of their prior installment.
This film cost 85 million and has made over 452 million worldwide.
It also disproves that family films are suffering more. Wonka and Kung Fu Panda both did well considering they are long in the tooth sequel and a spin off prequel.
You can use inflation numbers if you like. That does not change the fact that something made more than 4 times its production budget in theaters alone.
I don't think that changes things not looking rosy for Disney. I think the fact that we can't think of a single movie from Disney, animated or not, that has done that in recent play.(Avatar 2 may be the exception)
Not many animated fourth installments surpass their third one's profit ratio.
And that is coming from myself, who was never a Kung Fu Panda fan.
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Disney Irish
Premium Member
The reason why I say its showing signs of fatigue, just like other franchises have, is because its evident that it has not sold as many tickets as previous films in the franchise, even 3. So the lower budget helps keep it profitable, but its losing its luster when comparing to the other films. So if we're really calling things fairly then you have to be honest that the franchise is not as popular as it once was and selling less tickets. Again this is not to take anything away from the franchise or this one installment, it has done great overall for a franchise. But its now long in the tooth and its showing signs of fatigue, it happens just accept it.
Dreamworks for all your "rah rah" is not infallible, same can be said for Illumination.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Actually no, Across the Spider-Verse did almost $700M just last year.
same here… thought it was great
Right. Since all are in the same industry though. There is ebb and flow for the entire industry.
Bringing in inflation for everyone, or leaving inflation out for everyone does about the same thing.
But since you brought it in. If Kung Fu Panda four outgrossing Kung Fu Panda 3...with inflation shows sign of Fatigue.
What do The Marvel films show?
But it is not mutually exclusive kind of thing. You can look at the companies individually and see growth. Many are shocked at how well Kung Fu Panda 4 has done.
It is clear that Kung Fu Panda is not suffering the same.
Kung Fu Panda only earning over 4 times its production budget is not the same as The Marvels going from over a billion worldwide to 206 worldwide with its budget increasing.
No one said infallible.
But currently Universal owns the the two most successful animation houses of the box office. Illumination and the reviving Dreamworks.
I don't think Inside Out 2, Moana 2 or Frozen 3 will likely Bomb.
But I don't think Despicable Me 4 will flat out bomb, nor will Mario 2(although never match the first, but not bomb) or Shrek 5 whenever that happens.
The Wild Robot is anyone's guess. But it is the most interesting to me out of all of them because it is an original film(based on the hit books)
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Disney Irish
Premium Member
Look if you don't want to see how 4 is showing signs that the franchise is fatigued (even though this has been said starting with 3), that is up to you. But the numbers don't lie as likes to be pointed out here over and over. The numbers show its not selling as many tickets as the other movies in the franchise, again it happens.
Right. For sure it has less viewership than 3. No one is denying that Kung Fu Panda 4 has less people seeing it. But it is making more money.
Financially, it is a hit.
It is also undeniable that Universal is the most successful house for animation business right now.
When comparing it to its predecessors, there is not a Marvel level of fatigue.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I don't think any of these will bomb either. But no one was saying Panda 4 is a bomb or not a financial success compared to its budget. All that I was saying is its showing signs of franchise fatigue, so its not as rosy as you were painting it.
Universal has a movie franchise that is going on over 16 years old that can still get a movie to make 4 times its budget in theaters(and still playing)
I think that is darn rosy enough as it is rare.
How many other films right now are doing that?
A handful or less. And none of them besides Avatar 2 in recent years are Disney's.
Seems awfully rosy for me.
What was the last Universal animated film to bomb in theaters under Dreamworks or Illumination?
Bad Guys was pretty low earning, but even that was deemed successful. Trolls Band Together did meh. Illumination has not had a film lose money from going to theaters since HOP. Their lowest recently was the meh Migration, and even did performed well against the odds, budget and competition. (it played directly against Wish for a good while and Wish never topped it)
They are still all the strongest performing animated films.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
If this was a Marvel film you would be labeling it as franchise fatigue for bringing in less ticket sales than others in the franchise, even if profitable. But somehow because this is a Dreamworks film it gets a pass when held to the same standard, I got it.
I don't have to. Most of Marvel's recent films are actually having that happen to them and losing money.
If Disney could consistently make marvel flms that cost 85-100 million and made 452million worldwide. Everyone, especially Disney would be calling that a cash cow for them.
And not just limited to Marvel. Any film that does that is a smash hit.
Avatar 2, PussnBoots: Last wish, Oppenheimer,Migration, Barbie, Wonka, Dune 2, Mario, M3GAN, Five Nights at Freddy's and Kung Fu Panda 4 are all recent films that are comparable that at least four times earned their production budget back in theater box office.
Its impressive, regardless if less people are seeing Kung Fu Panda 4 or not, that it can do that and surpass the dollar sign total of Kung Fu Panda 3.
How have I been unfair to Marvel?
If you brought up an analysis of Trolls 3. I would agree. Trolls: Band Together was a meh time and that franchise now shows fatigue.
Kung Fu Panda has a fourth installment, and a very healthy one that does not show much signs of fatigue when stacked up against any other fourth installment of anything. It actually has great legs for such a franchise.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Once again I have not said that Panda 4 did poorly. All I've said is the franchise is showing signs of fatigue, its the truth. If you disagree with that fact as shown by the ticket sales, well that is up to you. But I'm in no way trying to take away the box office success that the franchise has had, as you keep trying to portray.
Can you show me where I disagreed with it? Why are you still quoting me like I have?
It is expected for any direct fourth installment to show fatigue. What I have stated as impressive is that it has surpassed financially what the previous has done compared to hat projections a fourth installment would be.
It can all be true. Less people saw Kung Fu Panda 4 than Kung Fu Panda 3.
Kung Fu Panda 4 was a larger return on investment and has a healthy audience turn out for the modern animated theatrical audience than what Disney has done for theatrical consumers.
If you disagree that Universal's animated films are not earning more revenue than Disney's animated films at the box office in recent years, then you are in denial.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I would think making a profit of $88 Million and counting is just fine by any movie standards; certainly by Kung Fu standards, or general Panda standards, or even a Panda who knows how to use Kung Fu.
Disney would kill to make a profit again on an animated film after the past few years, don't you think?
Kung Fu Panda 4: $85 Budget, $43 Marketing, $104 Domestic, $112 Overseas = $88 Million Profit and counting
Wish: $200 Budget, $100 Marketing, $38 Domestic, $71 Overseas = $191 Million Loss
Movie Comparison: Kung Fu Panda 4 (2024) vs. Wish (2023)
Domestic box office comparison between Kung Fu Panda 4 (2024) and Wish (2023)
www.the-numbers.com
TP2000
Well-Known Member
FYI - The overseas box office was just updated on Kung Fu Panda 4 from this past weekend, dumping another $27 Million into its worldwide box office.
It's now at $452,991,725 globally.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Yep, I'm aware, but thanks.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I'm happy that you are impressed with how Panda 4 has performed compared to other franchises. Less people seeing it though, even if it made a larger return on investment than the previous installments, is franchise fatigue. So yes all can be true, but still doesn't mean there isn't fatigue which can affect the franchises future. And that was my ultimate point. And so I think we're just talking past each other here, or at worst aren't going to see eye-to-eye on this.
Also I've never said Uni's animated films aren't earning more than Disney's animated films. I have eyes, I can see the numbers, and can do the math. Which also was not what we were talking about.
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