News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Brer Panther]

I probably mentioned this already, but I think a Nightmare Before Christmas land would be better for a "spooky" land than a Villains Land. Although the idea of a single-IP land in Magic Kingdom still feels kind of weird to me.

If MMRR was in Animation Courtyard, it would have needed to be part of a larger expansion so you could connect around the RnRC. Which is why they probably stuck it in GMR so they didn't have to take on a bigger project or worry about movie rights for GMR.

They probably just had Runaway Railway replace the Great Movie Ride because they just wanted to tear out the Great Movie Ride (likely because they were too cheap and/or lazy to maintain it).

 

[James Alucobond]

The fact that we are even discussing a DHS expansion makes me even more frustrated that they didn’t just update GMR and build MMRR where Launch Bay is, opening onto Animation Courtyard as it should. El Capitoon would have been amusing around the corner from the Chinese Theatre.

Missed opportunity to kill two birds with one stone for only a bit more money than they spent converting GMR to MMRR. Why on earth do they throw out great rides (that just need a little TLC) at the resort with the blessing of size?

On one hand, I agree. On the other, I’m kind of happy it didn’t lead to a Toontown 2.0. I’ve always hated the rounded, cartoony shapes of the buildings and the flat backdrops. It’s the antithesis of their design philosophy elsewhere in the parks, where they adapt the look of the source material into something more cohesively realistic.

 

[_caleb]

Missed opportunity to kill two birds with one stone for only a bit more money than they spent converting GMR to MMRR. Why on earth do they throw out great rides (that just need a little TLC) at the resort with the blessing of size?

I suspect The Great Movie Ride needed more than just a little TLC...

 

[DisneyDodo]

Honestly, the more I think about it the more I actually think they should scrap beyond big thunder and just commit ideas to a fifth gate.

After watching a video detailing everything Epic Universe has, Disney really can’t compete.

It would be a good idea to do a similar sort of park that takes advantage of themed areas that are as well themed as Pandora or GE.

They could move their Villains land to this fifth gate as one of the themed lands. They could make a copy of Cars Land and Zootopia… that’s already 3 lands. They could stick in a Moana land based off that concept or Encanto too. It just seems to me they could just put all these ideas into one new fifth gate instead of replacing rides at AK or adding to MK.

If Disney was looking to respond to EU (which they aren’t), it would make a lot more sense for them to open simultaneous expansions/additions to all 4 existing parks than to create a new one. WDW could fit like 2 full theme parks’ worth of experiences into the footprints of their current parks. Universal doesn’t have that luxury – if they want to build something new at their existing parks, they’re essentially forced to close something else. Hence, the magnanimous investment in EU.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

I suspect The Great Movie Ride needed more than just a little TLC...

I rode it the day after they announced it was closing (which was a miracle in and of itself) and it was in fine working order. Nothing egregiously broken (except for the Busby Berkeley water show, which hadn't worked since it opened).

 

[Animaniac93-98]

If MMRR was in Animation Courtyard, it would have needed to be part of a larger expansion so you could connect around the RnRC. Which is why they probably stuck it in GMR so they didn't have to take on a bigger project or worry about movie rights for GMR.

Disney now has the rights to more of the movies featured than when it first opened.

They could have always changed individual scenes to be more of their own catalog.

I rode it the day after they announced it was closing (which was a miracle in and of itself) and it was in fine working order. Nothing egregiously broken (except for the Busby Berkeley water show, which hadn't worked since it opened).

It had a sponsor when it closed, who changed certain aspects and helped to keep it in better shape than it had been.

Another reason why ditching it completely was a mistake.

 

[𝐌𝖆𝖓 𝖎𝖓 𝐖𝖊𝖇]

I probably mentioned this already, but I think a Nightmare Before Christmas land would be better for a "spooky" land than a Villains Land. Although the idea of a single-IP land in Magic Kingdom still feels kind of weird to me.

DHS needs to find its identity. It's not "Hollywood" anymore. A villains-anything would make more sense there, I think. More so than MK; especially if the goal is to cast the park as the "edgy" anti-Magic Kingdom. It skews "more teen", which fits right in with the "Nightmare Before Christmas" IP. If only they could somehow combine the idea of "Villains" while also including non-villainous properties that still fit within the "Scary/Spooky/Evil" conceptual mold. It'd be the perfect park addition. If MK is the sugary dreams of childhood, DHS could be the nightmare and adrenaline fueled fantasies of tween/teen angst.

 

[Fox&Hound]

DHS needs to find its identity. It's not "Hollywood" anymore. A villains-anything would make more sense there, I think. More so than MK; especially if the goal is to cast the park as the "edgy" anti-Magic Kingdom. It skews "more teen", which fits right in with the "Nightmare Before Christmas" IP. If only they could somehow combine the idea of "Villains" while also including non-villainous properties that still fit within the "Scary/Spooky/Evil" conceptual mold. It'd be the perfect park addition. If MK is the sugary dreams of childhood, DHS could be the nightmare and adrenaline fueled fantasies of tween/teen angst.

Agree 100%. Do any insiders know if there is any internal decision to bring villains to DHS and not MK (whenever they do pull the trigger)? Still stuck in their word choice of overdrive when talking about beyond big thunder (“our plans are shifting into overdrive”).

 

[𝐌𝖆𝖓 𝖎𝖓 𝐖𝖊𝖇]

Agree 100%. Do any insiders know if there is any internal decision to bring villains to DHS and not MK (whenever they do pull the trigger)? Still stuck in their word choice of overdrive when talking about beyond big thunder (“our plans are shifting into overdrive”).

Don't forget "Turbocharged".

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Agree 100%. Do any insiders know if there is any internal decision to bring villains to DHS and not MK (whenever they do pull the trigger)? Still stuck in their word choice of overdrive when talking about beyond big thunder (“our plans are shifting into overdrive”).

Not an insider, just replying to you... I don't think Disney intends to actually start/announce anything for another 6-8 months. As others have mentioned, it seems that Disney won't be doing anything until the end of the fiscal year (September 30th). They could announce a whole slate of things at D23 but we won't see any shovels in the ground until end of 2024. Nothing (of substance) will open until Spring 2026 at the earliest. It's pathetic.... Disney needs to hustle and get (pure) expansions in all 4 parks. I wouldn't be surprised to see them move the ideas of a Villainsland to DHS, but honestly feel that MK would finally be much more fleshed out if they open 4-5 new attractions, 2-4 dining options, and some shopping with these expansions. Especially if they finally do something with SGE and the rest of Tomorrowland. DHS also needs to do something with Animation Courtyard, hopefully we will find out more this August.

 

[Sectorkeeper71]

Agree 100%. Do any insiders know if there is any internal decision to bring villains to DHS and not MK (whenever they do pull the trigger)? Still stuck in their word choice of overdrive when talking about beyond big thunder (“our plans are shifting into overdrive”).

 

[aladdin2007]

The fact that we are even discussing a DHS expansion makes me even more frustrated that they didn’t just update GMR and build MMRR where Launch Bay is, opening onto Animation Courtyard as it should. El Capitoon would have been amusing around the corner from the Chinese Theatre.

Missed opportunity to kill two birds with one stone for only a bit more money than they spent converting GMR to MMRR. Why on earth do they throw out great rides (that just need a little TLC) at the resort with the blessing of size?

they don't want the maintence costs of sets and figures anymore etc etc....but I totally agree with all the above. MMRR could have been a part of a new fl version of toontown, in place of that awful animation courtyard....its the worst I have ever seen it currently in all its years of existence. It has gone from pretty good with the animation tour and mermaid, art of disney shop and another shop or two, to just okay, to downright ghetto. its all shuddered except for being stroller he**.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

DHS needs to find its identity. It's not "Hollywood" anymore. A villains-anything would make more sense there, I think. More so than MK; especially if the goal is to cast the park as the "edgy" anti-Magic Kingdom. It skews "more teen", which fits right in with the "Nightmare Before Christmas" IP. If only they could somehow combine the idea of "Villains" while also including non-villainous properties that still fit within the "Scary/Spooky/Evil" conceptual mold. It'd be the perfect park addition. If MK is the sugary dreams of childhood, DHS could be the nightmare and adrenaline fueled fantasies of tween/teen angst.

I think this is worth clarifying - It's not Studios anymore, but it is still Hollywood. Hollywood Boulevard remains intact as the opening act of the park and Sunset Boulevard is a strong supporting player to it. Echo Lake is also, in part, still Hollywood manifest. The changes to the park in the last decade have undercut the park's Studio guise, but the Hollywood-specific elements have stood strong, indirectly affirmed (though not particularly emphasized) by the new themed lands and attractions. Star Wars is a product of Hollywood. Toy Story in its way as well. Mickey, of course.

Point being, I agree that the park needs a clearer identity, but I think the most direct path to that is actually to play up the existing parts of the park. They've moved from the idea that this park is a working Studio operation - fine, but then develop a new idea of what Hollywood means to Disney, how that idea is expressed by a place, why guests should want to go there, and do those in a way that's inclusive of what currently works within the park. "Hollywood" isn't really the issue, scattershot execution of it is. Especially because those thematic elements don't inherently disagree with the park's intended audience. Expand and enhance the existing profile, which could be corralled into something cohesive without undoing the good remaining framework.

With that in mind, I would suspect a type of Villains Land could be worked into DHS in a way that furthers the thematic consistency and targets the core market for the park, though realistically it doesn't seem like that's on Disney's list. I've been getting the impression that a Villains Land for Magic Kingdom is one of the D23 Blue Sky concepts that they're taking more seriously. Though it remains to be seen whether it will actually be selected.

 

[𝐌𝖆𝖓 𝖎𝖓 𝐖𝖊𝖇]

I think this is worth clarifying - It's not Studios anymore, but it is still Hollywood. Hollywood Boulevard remains intact as the opening act of the park and Sunset Boulevard is a strong supporting player to it. Echo Lake is also, in part, still Hollywood manifest. The changes to the park in the last decade have undercut the park's Studio guise, but the Hollywood-specific elements have stood strong, indirectly affirmed (though not particularly emphasized) by the new themed lands and attractions. Star Wars is a product of Hollywood. Toy Story in its way as well. Mickey, of course.

Point being, I agree that the park needs a clearer identity, but I think the most direct path to that is actually to play up the existing parts of the park. They've moved from the idea that this park is a working Studio operation - fine, but then develop a new idea of what Hollywood means to Disney, how that idea is expressed by a place, why guests should want to go there, and do those in a way that's inclusive of what currently works within the park. "Hollywood" isn't really the issue, scattershot execution of it is. Especially because those thematic elements don't inherently disagree with the park's intended audience. Expand and enhance the existing profile, which could be corralled into something cohesive without undoing the good remaining framework.

With that in mind, I would suspect a type of Villains Land could be worked into DHS in a way that furthers the thematic consistency and targets the core market for the park, though realistically it doesn't seem like that's on Disney's list. I've been getting the impression that a Villains Land for Magic Kingdom is one of the D23 Blue Sky concepts that they're taking more seriously. Though it remains to be seen whether it will actually be selected.

It lost Hollywood with the GMR closure and the Studios aspect with Sounds Dangerous and the Backlot Tour. DHS lacks an identity both in it's aesthetic and branding. I sprinkling of names does not a Hollywood make. Although, I wouldn't be opposed to DHS finding it roots again. I thought the Hollywood angle was a good one. But, you know things are bad when Disney considers changing the park name.

For them to double down on a Hollywood concept now would be an even greater challenge what with the Toy Story and Star Wars based lands. It's clear they're content plopping down whatever for the time being. And to that effect, Yes a Villainsland would probably fit right in. I think we're somewhat in agreement here on wanting DHS to better find it's identity. Though it remains to be seen how Disney intends to do that moving forward.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

It lost Hollywood with the GMR closure and the Studios aspect with Sounds Dangerous and the Backlot Tour. DHS lacks an identity both in it's aesthetic and branding. I sprinkling of names does not a Hollywood make. Although, I wouldn't be opposed to DHS finding it roots again. I thought the Hollywood angle was a good one. But, you know it's bad when they considered changing the park name.

For them to double down on a Hollywood concept now would be a challenge what with the Toy Story and and Star Wars lands.

Finding a way to make two massive Hollywood franchises fit in a Hollywood-themed theme park would be far less of a challenge than making a Villains Land fit naturally. Or redoing the park once again so that it could fit better. Not that I think either couldn't be done. And not that I think Villains Land is being considered for DHS.

The Great Movie Ride was of course very "Hollywood", and I lament its loss, but the ride was far from the park's final bastion of the concept. As I stated pretty clearly, the entire front half of the park is still heavily Hollywood-themed. A far cry from a sprinkling of names. The back half is not particularly Hollywood-exclusionary, though it is somewhat exclusionary of the "Working Studio" theme. It could be made to work - it somewhat does already, though I'd love a revison that makes a real effort to tie everything together consciously. The park does lack that. It's currently a repository for IP that is fronted by a beautiful half-city's worth of Hollywood art and architecture.

Let's not forget Hollywood wasn't even in the original name of the park. That they considered ditching it again (and then chose not to go through with that) doesn't hold that much weight.

 

[𝐌𝖆𝖓 𝖎𝖓 𝐖𝖊𝖇]

Finding a way to make two massive Hollywood franchises fit in a Hollywood-themed theme park would be far less of a challenge than making a Villains Land fit naturally. Or redoing the park once again so that it could fit better. Not that I think either couldn't be done. And not that I think Villains Land is being considered for DHS.

The Great Movie Ride was of course very "Hollywood", and I lament its loss, but the ride was far from the park's final bastion of the concept. As I stated pretty clearly, the entire front half of the park is still heavily Hollywood-themed. A far cry from a sprinkling of names. The back half is not particularly Hollywood-exclusionary, though it is somewhat exclusionary of the "Working Studio" theme. It could be made to work - it somewhat does already, though I'd love a revison that makes a real effort to tie everything together consciously. The park does lack that. It's currently a repository for IP that is fronted by a beautiful half-city's worth of Hollywood art and architecture.

Let's not forget Hollywood wasn't even in the original name of the park. That they considered ditching it again (and then chose not to go through with that) doesn't hold that much weight.

I just don't see it. Sorry.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I just don't see it. Sorry.

Which part? That the Hollywood Boulevard, Sunset Boulevard, and Echo Lake parts of Disney's Hollywood Studios are themed to Hollywood? Or that the park could actually be made cohesive without yet another wholesale reboot that rips out successful elements in place of genuine expansion?

 

[Bocabear]

The framework of the park is ok...There are easy places to expand...especially if they get rid of the infrastructure that was for film production for good, and move the offices and such out of the backlot area and perhaps into the Galactic Star Cruiser...lol
But it seems like they could do a lot more with the park if they wanted...I get the feeling that SWGE and TSL are all we are going to get aside from a revamped 30 year old mermaid show.

 

[Mike S]

Historically, new parks just cannibalize attendance at existing parks. People don’t get more vacation time just because there’s a new park, so rather than add another day to see the new park they just cross one of the existing parks off their list of things to see.

Universal doesn’t mind this because they think they can steal a day that people currently spend at Disney. Disney wants to steal back the time people have started giving to Universal, but not at the expense of one of their own existing parks. When AK opened lots of guests just skipped out on EPCOT or Studios to see it.

Building a 5th park, while creatively titillating, doesn’t solve more problems than it creates, so Disney isn’t interested.

True but if I recall my history correctly DAK was the only WDW park that cannibalized attendance. EPCOT Center and MGM Studios both increased overall resort attendance upon their opening. I’m not advocating a fifth park btw.

Maybe 3 is indeed the magic number, especially now with Universal on an upswing and nowhere near the confusing marketing campaign of “Universal Escape” around IoA’s opening.

 

[UNCgolf]

As I stated pretty clearly, the entire front half of the park is still heavily Hollywood-themed.

Sort of -- the building facades are still heavily themed (and fantastic), but they've stripped away so much else.