Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[LittleBuford]

You keep mentioning how different the Alice movies were and I'm struggling to remember what was so different about them, I haven't seen either in probably a decade so my honest recollection of both is Alice follows a rabbit, falls down a hole into a fantasy world, meets a bunch of strange characters (hatter, cheshire cat, smoking catterpiller, tweetle dee and dum, etc), has a run in with the queen of hearts, plays mini golf, drinks potions that make her big and small, has a tea party... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of plot points but both movies seem to have shared all the big memorable scenes.

Here's a summary of the plot so that you can decide for yourself how similar it is to the cartoon. By my reckoning, not very:

Spoiler: Plot of Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

In 1868, 19-year-old Alice Kingsleigh, mourning the recent loss of her father, is troubled by strange recurring dreams and the stifling expectations of the society in which she lives. After receiving an unwanted marriage proposal from Hamish Ascot at his father's garden party, Alice spots a familiar white rabbit wearing a waistcoat and carrying a pocket watch. She follows it to a rabbit hole and accidentally falls in. She shrinks after drinking from a bottle labeled 'Drink Me' (called a Pishsalver), meaning she cannot reach a key on a table, and then eats a cake labeled 'Eat Me' (called an Upelkuchen), transforming into a giantess. After drinking from the bottle again to fit through a tiny door, she enters the forest of a fantastical place called Underland. There, she is greeted by the White Rabbit, a Dormouse, a Dodo, Talking Flowers, and identical twins Tweedledum and Tweedledee, who all apparently know her.

Alice asserts that she is dreaming, but learns from Absolem the Caterpillar that she is destined to slay the Jabberwocky and end the tyranny of the Red Queen. The group is ambushed by the ravenous Bandersnatch and the Red Queen's knights, led by the Knave of Hearts. All are captured except Alice, who escapes, and the Dormouse, who takes one of the Bandersnatch's eyes. The Knave informs the Red Queen of Alice's return, and is ordered to find her immediately.

The Cheshire Cat guides Alice to the Mad Hatter, March Hare, and Dormouse's tea party. The Hatter explains that the Red Queen took over Underland, usurping her sister the White Queen. He joined the resistance after she destroyed his village and killed his family. The red knights seize the party, but the Hatter allows himself to be captured so Alice can flee. Alice is found by the Knave's Bloodhound, who is allied with the resistance. He takes Alice to the Red Queen's castle, where she accidentally outgrows her clothes after eating another Upelkuchen.

Infiltrating the palace as a courtier named "Um", Alice learns that the vorpal sword, the only weapon capable of killing the Jabberwocky, is locked inside the Bandersnatch's den. The knave makes advances to Alice, which she rebuffs, but the jealous Red Queen orders her beheading. Alice obtains the sword and returns the Bandersnatch's eye. He gratefully helps her escape the castle and delivers her to the White Queen, who gives Alice a potion that returns her normal size. The Cheshire Cat uses his shapeshifting powers to free the Mad Hatter, who incites rebellion amongst the Red Queen's subjects. Meanwhile, Absolem, who is turning into a pupa, finally gets Alice to remember that she visited Underland when she was a little girl, and called it "Wonderland". Just before his chrysalis closes, he advises her to fight the Jabberwocky.

The Queens gather their armies on a chessboard-like battlefield and send Alice and the Jabberwocky to decide the battle in single combat. Alice beheads the Jabberwocky with the vorpal sword, and the red knights gratefully turn against their ruler. The White Queen banishes her sister and the Knave into exile together, then gives Alice a vial of the Jabberwocky's purple blood, which can fulfill one wish. Alice says farewell to her friends, then wishes to return home.

Alice awakens and escapes the rabbit hole, dirty and scratched from her fall. When she returns to the gazebo at the garden party, she refuses Hamish's proposal and impresses Lord Ascot with her idea of establishing trade routes to Hong Kong, inspiring him to take her on as his apprentice. As Alice prepares to set off on a trading ship, Absolem, in his new butterfly form, lands on her shoulder.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Here's a summary of the plot so that you can decide for yourself how similar it is to the cartoon. By my reckoning, not very:

Spoiler: Plot of Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

In 1868, 19-year-old Alice Kingsleigh, mourning the recent loss of her father, is troubled by strange recurring dreams and the stifling expectations of the society in which she lives. After receiving an unwanted marriage proposal from Hamish Ascot at his father's garden party, Alice spots a familiar white rabbit wearing a waistcoat and carrying a pocket watch. She follows it to a rabbit hole and accidentally falls in. She shrinks after drinking from a bottle labeled 'Drink Me' (called a Pishsalver), meaning she cannot reach a key on a table, and then eats a cake labeled 'Eat Me' (called an Upelkuchen), transforming into a giantess. After drinking from the bottle again to fit through a tiny door, she enters the forest of a fantastical place called Underland. There, she is greeted by the White Rabbit, a Dormouse, a Dodo, Talking Flowers, and identical twins Tweedledum and Tweedledee, who all apparently know her.

Alice asserts that she is dreaming, but learns from Absolem the Caterpillar that she is destined to slay the Jabberwocky and end the tyranny of the Red Queen. The group is ambushed by the ravenous Bandersnatch and the Red Queen's knights, led by the Knave of Hearts. All are captured except Alice, who escapes, and the Dormouse, who takes one of the Bandersnatch's eyes. The Knave informs the Red Queen of Alice's return, and is ordered to find her immediately.

The Cheshire Cat guides Alice to the Mad Hatter, March Hare, and Dormouse's tea party. The Hatter explains that the Red Queen took over Underland, usurping her sister the White Queen. He joined the resistance after she destroyed his village and killed his family. The red knights seize the party, but the Hatter allows himself to be captured so Alice can flee. Alice is found by the Knave's Bloodhound, who is allied with the resistance. He takes Alice to the Red Queen's castle, where she accidentally outgrows her clothes after eating another Upelkuchen.

Infiltrating the palace as a courtier named "Um", Alice learns that the vorpal sword, the only weapon capable of killing the Jabberwocky, is locked inside the Bandersnatch's den. The knave makes advances to Alice, which she rebuffs, but the jealous Red Queen orders her beheading. Alice obtains the sword and returns the Bandersnatch's eye. He gratefully helps her escape the castle and delivers her to the White Queen, who gives Alice a potion that returns her normal size. The Cheshire Cat uses his shapeshifting powers to free the Mad Hatter, who incites rebellion amongst the Red Queen's subjects. Meanwhile, Absolem, who is turning into a pupa, finally gets Alice to remember that she visited Underland when she was a little girl, and called it "Wonderland". Just before his chrysalis closes, he advises her to fight the Jabberwocky.

The Queens gather their armies on a chessboard-like battlefield and send Alice and the Jabberwocky to decide the battle in single combat. Alice beheads the Jabberwocky with the vorpal sword, and the red knights gratefully turn against their ruler. The White Queen banishes her sister and the Knave into exile together, then gives Alice a vial of the Jabberwocky's purple blood, which can fulfill one wish. Alice says farewell to her friends, then wishes to return home.

Alice awakens and escapes the rabbit hole, dirty and scratched from her fall. When she returns to the gazebo at the garden party, she refuses Hamish's proposal and impresses Lord Ascot with her idea of establishing trade routes to Hong Kong, inspiring him to take her on as his apprentice. As Alice prepares to set off on a trading ship, Absolem, in his new butterfly form, lands on her shoulder.

I'm not doubting it's different, I'm just highlighting how they hit on all the big memorable points to make it seem very familiar. Even the trailer was a who's who of the big Alice memories from the 1950s film.



Maybe the new Snow White marketing team will be able to pull off the same level of nostalgia with their modified story, we'll find out in a few months when trailers start popping up, so far all we've got is the actors talking about how drastically different it will be though.

My point is with old movies we're going to have a handful of core memories that stand out, the new Alice seemed to hit all of them which made it feel the same even if it was different. Everything said so far about Snow White makes me believe it won't include most our core memories so it's going to feel very different.

 

[DisneyHead123]

This is the sort of explanation that should make grown adults pause and reflect on their behaviour. If all of this anger really does hinge on something so superficial as a 22-year-old's (perceived) smirk, there is something very weird going on. Mature individuals—no matter how passionate they may be about Disney—should not be getting this worked up over something so objectively inconsequential.

So, unfortunately, I don't think anything 'weird' is going on, in the sense of 'weird' meaning 'unusual'. Social media is often a very very toxic place, and mob bullying is not uncommon, often over silly and trivial things.

Awful, concerning, should-be-addressed, yes. But unusual, no. (As a related aside, a psychologist by the name of Jonathan Haidt released a study not too long ago purporting to show that social media use is related to an epidemic of mental health problems among the young. I don't claim to be qualified to peer review his work, but it makes one think.)

I think this is a new and uncharted challenge for companies like Disney - entertainment lives and dies by what's "trending", including, often, mob bullying campaigns. I don't claim to have any answers there, just noting that it's a worrisome feature of our new internet based landscape.

Edited to add: When I say "bullying", I'm not talking about measured conversations like the ones here. I mean people on TikTok tearing Zegler apart with videos calling her a "Pick Me Girl" and such.

 

[LittleBuford]

My point is with old movies we're going to have a handful of core memories that stand out, the new Alice seemed to hit all of them which made it feel the same even if it was different.

For you it did, for me it didn’t. As a huge fan of both the animated film and the book, I hated the live-action version and have never wanted to rewatch it.

Everything said so far about Snow White makes me believe it won't include most our core memories so it's going to feel very different.

My sense is that it’ll have more in common with its animated counterpart than Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderful did. But I guess we’ll have to wait until it comes out to know.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

For you it did, for me it didn’t. As a huge fan of both the animated film and the book, I hated the live-action version and have never wanted to rewatch it.


My sense is that it’ll have more in common with its animated counterpart than Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderful did. But I guess we’ll have to wait until it comes out to know.

I don't recall disliking the live action Alice but the fact it came out 13 years ago and it's been a decade+ since I watched it shows I must not have found it that great either. With the exception of Cruella and Maleficent that's been true of all the remakes though, I usually watch them once out of curiosity and then rarely (if ever) watch them again.

I hope you're right and Snow surprises me, as a lifelong Disney fan I miss watching a new Disney movie and walking out with a huge smile on my face, Haunted Mansion is the only Disney movie this year that's had that affect.

 

[ParkPeeker]

I largely agree with this, though Alice in Wonderland does not, to my mind, keep relatively close to the plot and spirit of the original. I don’t recall that particular remake coming up in this thread before, which is weird given that one of the complaints about Snow White is that it (partially) retains the title of the original and therefore sets false expectations.

I brought it up as a reply to Vegas! along with Mulan and the jungle book 2016, but got no response, maybe he blocked me

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I brought it up as a reply to Vegas! along with Mulan and the jungle book 2016, but got no response, maybe he blocked me

Nope, just stepped away from the site for the night to escape the back and forth and then missed it while skimming to catch up.

As I mentioned to Little my memory of the Alice remake was it hit the key points of the original, or at least what I remembered of it. I don’t recall The Jungle book being all that different either.

I absolutely detest what they did to Mulan though, they took away the heart of the story and her sacrifice for her family when they decided to make her a super human as a child and she never had to overcome the odds to gain the respect of her fellow soldiers. Probably the worst remake they’ve ever done.

I think Snow has created a unique situation because nothings been released officially, there’s been no trailers, no official statements to highlight how it will relate to the original, all we’ve got is a few actors comments laughingly commenting how it won’t be like the original. Disney will eventually release a greatest hits trailer to draw on our memories but so far all we have is the actors comments about how they’re changing a movie we all grew up with.

With Alice, Mulan, Etc our introduction was trailers carefully crafted to tug on our memories, we haven’t gotten that with Snow.

The end result is it sounds like it’ll be a totally different story, similar to Cruella, rather than a retelling of the original story.

 

[erasure fan1]

You say that, but 2019 saw the release of two of the most lucrative remakes to date. Perhaps the tide has turned, but we don't yet have enough evidence to that effect.

Don't mistake lucrative with enjoyment. Lion king was hugely "lucrative" but people seem to dislike it, a lot. I thought it was terrible. Aladdin wasn't as bad but still seemed to be considered unnecessary and no one seems to care about it now. There's a reason Disney keeps making these. Because they have the potential to sell well. Disney doesn't really care if people love or even like them, they just want them to show up. Hence the nostalgia bait trailers. Personally I think a lot of people are just plain sick of it. And that's been why everything that's happened with snow white has been so amplified.

 

[DKampy]

Don't mistake lucrative with enjoyment. Lion king was hugely "lucrative" but people seem to dislike it, a lot. I thought it was terrible. Aladdin wasn't as bad but still seemed to be considered unnecessary and no one seems to care about it now. There's a reason Disney keeps making these. Because they have the potential to sell well. Disney doesn't really care if people love or even like them, they just want them to show up. Hence the nostalgia bait trailers. Personally I think a lot of people are just plain sick of it. And that's been why everything that's happened with snow white has been so amplified.

Except some people must of enjoyed The Lion King and Aladdin remakes… you don’t usually pass a billion with out word of mouth and/or repeat viewings

 

[Chi84]

Except some people must of enjoyed The Lion King and Aladdin remakes… you don’t usually pass a billion with out word of mouth and/or repeat viewings

I prefer most of the live-action remakes to the animated versions, although I didn’t see The Lion King. They allow the story to be expanded and in my opinion, the human expression of emotion adds so much.

 

[erasure fan1]

Except some people must of enjoyed The Lion King and Aladdin remakes… you don’t usually pass a billion with out word of mouth and/or repeat viewings

Or a lot of people got suckered into the nostalgia bait and left the theater saying, well, that was not needed. I'm not sure anyone would argue that transformers age of extinction is a good movie. And that any large number of people enjoyed it. Heck all I hear is how bad Transformers 3 is as well. But that's over a billion as well. And to think that the last 2 Transformers movies weren't hurt because of Bays lazy uninspired transformers films would be strange to me. Maybe I'm looking too into it, but I sure see a similar pattern.

 

[DKampy]

Or a lot of people got suckered into the nostalgia bait and left the theater saying, well, that was not needed. I'm not sure anyone would argue that transformers age of extinction is a good movie. And that any large number of people enjoyed it. Heck all I hear is how bad Transformers 3 is as well. But that's over a billion as well. And to think that the last 2 Transformers movies weren't hurt because of Bays lazy uninspired transformers films would be strange to me. Maybe I'm looking too into it, but I sure see a similar pattern.

Agreed on Transformers…I did not even care for the first one… I never watched any after that… but others seem to have liked them… I personally did not care for Aladdin or The Lion King… they are my least favorite of the live actions… but I recall people liking at least Aladdin at the time… particularly praising Will Smith and I thought. really??? He does not hold a candle to Robin Williams

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Or a lot of people got suckered into the nostalgia bait and left the theater saying, well, that was not needed. I'm not sure anyone would argue that transformers age of extinction is a good movie. And that any large number of people enjoyed it. Heck all I hear is how bad Transformers 3 is as well. But that's over a billion as well. And to think that the last 2 Transformers movies weren't hurt because of Bays lazy uninspired transformers films would be strange to me. Maybe I'm looking too into it, but I sure see a similar pattern.

So we judge movies by box office when it suits our narrative, but explain it away with baseless suppositions otherwise?

 

[LittleBuford]

Or a lot of people got suckered into the nostalgia bait and left the theater saying, well, that was not needed.

Aladdin and The Lion King (the first of which I thought was OK, the second of which I hated) came after a string of earlier remakes. There was no bait-and-switch; people knew what they were getting and paid—over a billion in each case—to get it. We’ve only had one major cinematic remake since then, The Little Mermaid, whose performance by itself simply doesn’t provide us with enough information about public appetite for such films going forward.

 

[LittleBuford]

There are different storylines in Snow White, but the main storyline is LOVE. Love for her Prince and vice versa and love for the Dwarfs and vice versa. To focus the storyline mostly on her becoming a leader and slaying the Queen is going totally away from it. The Dwarfs want to kill the Queen because they love Snow White. And the Prince kisses her because he thinks it will be his last kiss with his one true love. To make it like love is less important than personal gain is just wrong.

We don’t yet know the the ways and degree to which love will feature in Snow White. I wouldn’t get preemptively angry about it.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

We’ve only had one major cinematic remake since then, The Little Mermaid, whose performance by itself simply doesn’t provide us with enough information about public appetite for such films going forward.

Especially considering the unfortunate controversy surrounding it.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

There’s a lot of bad movies that make billions, the entire Fast and Furious series instantly jumps to mind, quickly followed by the Jurassic Park sequels, the Transformers sequels, and the Disney remakes.

People love escapism, a movie doesn’t have to be “good” to be “good”, it just has to let us forget about our problems for a few hours or take us back to our childhood and we’ll line up to see it.

I’m sure we all have guilty pleasure movies that we know are bad but we still love to watch over and over. Every time I watch a Jurassic park movie I groan a little at how bad the stories are but I keep watching them because I love the visuals and the spectacle of it.

Escapism pays.

 

[erasure fan1]

So we judge movies by box office when it suits our narrative, but explain it away with baseless suppositions otherwise?

No. I brought up box office to show a point of fatigue. I've been pretty up front with my position on box office. I've said multiple times great box office doesn't equal a great film. I'll bring up Prince of Persia again. I thought it was really good. But I completely understand why they abandoned it. It made no money and was a complete financial loss. But I'm not going to sit here and argue when people say it was a flop, because it was.

Aladdin and The Lion King (the first of which I thought was OK, the second of which I hated) came after a string of earlier remakes. There was no bait-and-switch; people knew what they were getting and paid—over a billion in each case—to get it.

You seem to inject things into posts that aren't there to begin with. I never said bait and switch. When I say nostalgia bait, I'm talking about the marketing. They are playing on peoples nostalgia of the original. And when you watch the trailers, that's exactly what they are doing.And maybe, just maybe, people are getting a bit tiered of it. I'm sure a lot of people went into Aladdin and lion king with high hopes because of the originals, then they were disappointed with what they got.

 

[LittleBuford]

You seem to inject things into posts that aren't there to begin with. I never said bait and switch. When I say nostalgia bait, I'm talking about the marketing. They are playing on peoples nostalgia of the original. And when you watch the trailers, that's exactly what they are doing.And maybe, just maybe, people are getting a bit tiered of it. I'm sure a lot of people went into Aladdin and lion king with high hopes because of the originals, then they were disappointed with what they got.

I’m not sure how the scenario you’re describing—whereby people were lured by the “nostalgia bait” (your phrase) but left the cinema disappointed with what they actually got—isn’t bait-and-switch. If you really object to my use of that term, I can edit my post, but it would make absolutely no difference to my point.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I remember hearing nothing but good things when Aladdin was doing well in theaters. I never bothered with it, but it got very good word of mouth and "had legs."