Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[eliza61nyc]

Must be expecting less crowds today

With the crowds dying down, we're wondering If we should just do a few individual LL's for our upcoming September trip. In magic Kong the only thing I think we'll have an issue is Tron so not planning on doing Genie +

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

So we are getting paid FP+ with no re-rides. Got it.

And no ability to pull a second tier 1 ride after you’ve used your 3. Oh, and tiers at Magic Kingdom. Oh, and the former tier 1 rides are all now separate pay-forms, and the tier 2 rides are now tier 1. Did I miss anything?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

AK is back to the original $15

No way is it worth buying Genie+ at $15 for AK today. I’d bet you can get on just about everything with a 30 minute or less wait if timed correctly. The only ride that might have a long wait is FOP and that isn’t part of Genie+ anyway.

 

[jpeden]

And no ability to pull a second tier 1 ride after you’ve used your 3. Oh, and tiers at Magic Kingdom. Oh, and the former tier 1 rides are all now separate pay-forms, and the tier 2 rides are now tier 1. Did I miss anything?

Is it tier 1 only once? I thought it was only one tier one reservation in advance but you could pull other tier one rides after you exhausted your three. If that’s so it’s worthless considering you couldn’t use G+ on things like SM and BTMRR.

If they charge and further restrict access it will not be seen well in my opinion.

 

[Tha Realest]

Over the last few years there’s been a meme where it’s basically “Men will literally do ______ instead of go to therapy”

This meme roasts men who refuse to go to therapy

The lengths that men will go to in avoiding therapy and dealing with their emotions are now being roasted in a new Twitter meme.

www.dailydot.com

I’m reminded of this meme with all these costly, convoluted contortions Disney keeps doing instead of…building capacity. Disney will literally spend billions on janky IT schemes instead of building capacity.

 

[nickys]

And no ability to pull a second tier 1 ride after you’ve used your 3.

Is it tier 1 only once? I thought it was only one tier one reservation in advance but you could pull other tier one rides after you exhausted your three. If that’s so it’s worthless considering you couldn’t use G+ on things like SM and BTMRR.

If they charge and further restrict access it will not be seen well in my opinion.

That part wasn’t clear from the survey, it didn’t say either way. My guess is that it’s like FP+ so once you’ve used the three pre-booked you can book another Tier 1.

A lot of the nuances weren’t specified, like can you actually choose the times, can you modify them etc. A survey isn’t going to go to that level of detail though.

I agree there shouldn’t be both Tiers and ILLs - choose one or the other.

 

[Jrb1979]

Is it tier 1 only once? I thought it was only one tier one reservation in advance but you could pull other tier one rides after you exhausted your three. If that’s so it’s worthless considering you couldn’t use G+ on things like SM and BTMRR.

If they charge and further restrict access it will not be seen well in my opinion.

Odds are you wouldn't be able to pull more than your 3 now anyways. It seems to cut down on how many LL are available each day to keep waits short. There isn't enough capacity for this to work. If they do go this route, there will just about nothing left day of. It's back to pleasing the spreadsheet planners and making those who like spontaneity very unhappy.

 

[Chi84]

Odds are you wouldn't be able to pull more than your 3 now anyways. It seems to cut down on how many LL are available each day to keep waits short. There isn't enough capacity for this to work. If they do go this route, there will just about nothing left day of. It's back to pleasing the spreadsheet planners and making those who like spontaneity very unhappy.

People were less upset about not getting everything they wanted with FP+ because it was a free system. The planners aren't going to be so pleased when it costs a good deal and doesn't include the most popular rides.

Disney decided to charge for a system that will never work well because of lack of capacity. It would have been bad enough if they decided to charge for FP+ right from the start. But they toyed around with a system that pleased (to some extent) the people who are more focused on rides to the detriment of those who like to fit rides in around other experiences. Now they're going to take that away in favor of a much inferior (in terms of both cost and capacity) FP+ experience.

Don't kid yourself. Disney found a way to make everyone unhappy.

 

[Jenny72]

Is Genie+ that much better for spontaneity, though? A lot of people seem to have a pretty strict plan in place for what they'll try to get first, then second, and how/when to access it through the day. But because they can't always get what they want, they just end up sort of following the whims of whatever they can get, rather than their own mood at the time. So you can't plan, but you also can't be completely spontaneous in the sense of wandering through the park and seeing what looks fun.

But I don't use it at all, so maybe someone can correct me on this perception. One of the reasons I don't do table service meals or Genie+ is that we really do make decisions on the fly and get on whatever looks good, so it feels to me like the best way to be spontaneous is not to use it at all. But then of course you have to make plans to avoid long lines, so there's not a lot of ways around it. (Also, I am cheap.)

 

[monothingie]

Pricing for Genie+ today - it is the lowest since the new pricing structure began.

View attachment 728866

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Is Genie+ that much better for spontaneity, though? A lot of people seem to have a pretty strict plan in place for what they'll try to get first, then second, and how/when to access it through the day. But because they can't always get what they want, they just end up sort of following the whims of whatever they can get, rather than their own mood at the time. So you can't plan, but you also can't be completely spontaneous in the sense of wandering through the park and seeing what looks fun.

But I don't use it at all, so maybe someone can correct me on this perception. One of the reasons I don't do table service meals or Genie+ is that we really do make decisions on the fly and get on whatever looks good, so it feels to me like the best way to be spontaneous is not to use it at all. But then of course you have to make plans to avoid long lines, so there's not a lot of ways around it. (Also, I am cheap.)

So it's better in that you don't need to do anything/can't do anything until day of - so there isn't any formal preplanning ... I do think one of the goals of G+ was to make it better for folks who didn't want to do that preplanning

The system was designed for only a 20% takeup and for return times to be freely available during the day.... BUT so many WDW goers were so used to that they are trying to make the system work like a planning tool and track when things are available, when they run out, etc

In chatting with Scott Gustin once who had spoken to the IT folks behind G+ he had asked them what happens when a ride runs out of LL return times for the day and their answer was "what? that will never happen."

So the system was designed for casual use but so many WDW goers don't do "casual" and so the system breaks down ... BUT then Disney started making so much $ from it that they can't just not keep selling it

 

[Jenny72]

Hmm, it seems to me that if they really thought people would just use it casually, they don't know their parks or their audience very well (which is probably true).

But if it really was designed to be used by 20% of the guests, why not raise the price until about 20% are using it? They seemed happy that 50% were using it...? But maybe they're just flailing around and trying to get as much money as possible, which is the clearest explanation for this mess.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

No way is it worth buying Genie+ at $15 for AK today. I’d bet you can get on just about everything with a 30 minute or less wait if timed correctly. The only ride that might have a long wait is FOP and that isn’t part of Genie+ anyway.

So let's do the math ... a day ticket to AK for today is $134. The park is open, the park is open from 8am to 7pm, so 11 hours, meaning each park hour costs $12.18 ... so at $15 for Genie+ you would need to save 73.9 minutes of line time to "buy back" enough active park time to break even


Using the Touring Plans Lines App for more accurate wait times. The waits in Animal Kingdom are currently:

- Dinosaur: 22 mins
- Tough to be a bug: 8 mins
- Kali River Rapids: 13 mins
- Kilimanjaro Safaris: 31 mins
- Navi River: 61 mins
- TriceraTop Spin: 4 mins
- Adventure Outpost: 29mins

Everest is down

So if you used it on Navi, Safaris, and Dinosaur - that alone is 114minutes saved. Less the 73.9m needed to break even, you are already ahead 40.1m

There is probably some wait after the merge point for each of those - so lets say the true wait is only 80% of the reported wait times, still 91.2mins saved and you would be up 17.3mins. Add in a use at Everest once it is up and you are potentially getting "value"

NOW this assumes no strategy or effort in targeting lower wait times- including not making rope drop/early entry when you can probably bang out a few of these with very minimal waits

So to me, using G+ at AK and EP especially is mostly just paying to be able to sleep in on your vacation and avoid rope drop and all that. If you don't care about that then really no use for G+

 

[JD80]

So let's do the math ... a day ticket to AK for today is $134. The park is open, the park is open from 8am to 7pm, so 11 hours, meaning each park hour costs $12.18 ... so at $15 for Genie+ you would need to save 73.9 minutes of line time to "buy back" enough active park time to break even


Using the Touring Plans Lines App for more accurate wait times. The waits in Animal Kingdom are currently:

- Dinosaur: 22 mins
- Tough to be a bug: 8 mins
- Kali River Rapids: 13 mins
- Kilimanjaro Safaris: 31 mins
- Navi River: 61 mins
- TriceraTop Spin: 4 mins
- Adventure Outpost: 29mins

Everest is down

So if you used it on Navi, Safaris, and Dinosaur - that alone is 114minutes saved. Less the 73.9m needed to break even, you are already ahead 40.1m

There is probably some wait after the merge point for each of those - so lets say the true wait is only 80% of the reported wait times, still 91.2mins saved and you would be up 17.3mins. Add in a use at Everest once it is up and you are potentially getting "value"

NOW this assumes no strategy or effort in targeting lower wait times- including not making rope drop/early entry when you can probably bang out a few of these with very minimal waits

So to me, using G+ at AK and EP especially is mostly just paying to be able to sleep in on your vacation and avoid rope drop and all that. If you don't care about that then really no use for G+

G+ allows you to be a casual easy-go-lucky park goer for EPCOT and AK.

 

[Touchdown]

So let's do the math ... a day ticket to AK for today is $134. The park is open, the park is open from 8am to 7pm, so 11 hours, meaning each park hour costs $12.18 ... so at $15 for Genie+ you would need to save 73.9 minutes of line time to "buy back" enough active park time to break even


Using the Touring Plans Lines App for more accurate wait times. The waits in Animal Kingdom are currently:

- Dinosaur: 22 mins
- Tough to be a bug: 8 mins
- Kali River Rapids: 13 mins
- Kilimanjaro Safaris: 31 mins
- Navi River: 61 mins
- TriceraTop Spin: 4 mins
- Adventure Outpost: 29mins

Everest is down

So if you used it on Navi, Safaris, and Dinosaur - that alone is 114minutes saved. Less the 73.9m needed to break even, you are already ahead 40.1m

There is probably some wait after the merge point for each of those - so lets say the true wait is only 80% of the reported wait times, still 91.2mins saved and you would be up 17.3mins. Add in a use at Everest once it is up and you are potentially getting "value"

NOW this assumes no strategy or effort in targeting lower wait times- including not making rope drop/early entry when you can probably bang out a few of these with very minimal waits

So to me, using G+ at AK and EP especially is mostly just paying to be able to sleep in on your vacation and avoid rope drop and all that. If you don't care about that then really no use for G+

Except if you rope drop you can do all of Pandora with no wait, ad the Safari Fastpass really only takes off half your wait time. So you are saving maybe 30 min assuming your FP lines aren’t backed up.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Except if you rope drop you can do all of Pandora with no wait, ad the Safari Fastpass really only takes off half your wait time. So you are saving maybe 30 min assuming your FP lines aren’t backed up.

which is why I literally said this is useful if you don't rope drop and buying G+ at EP/AK is basically buying back sleeping in on your vacation and not needing to rope drop

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Is Genie+ that much better for spontaneity, though? A lot of people seem to have a pretty strict plan in place for what they'll try to get first, then second, and how/when to access it through the day. But because they can't always get what they want, they just end up sort of following the whims of whatever they can get, rather than their own mood at the time. So you can't plan, but you also can't be completely spontaneous in the sense of wandering through the park and seeing what looks fun.

But I don't use it at all, so maybe someone can correct me on this perception. One of the reasons I don't do table service meals or Genie+ is that we really do make decisions on the fly and get on whatever looks good, so it feels to me like the best way to be spontaneous is not to use it at all. But then of course you have to make plans to avoid long lines, so there's not a lot of ways around it. (Also, I am cheap.)

In parktouring discussions, I've long tried to distinguish between plans and strategies.

1. IMO, plans are somewhat fixed. A dining ADR is a plan.
2. A strategy has flexibility. My strategy is to hit a headliner as early as possible, but it isn't important which headliner we hit, especially in MK. AK is a little different.

At rope drop at AK, Flight of Passage is the big headliner. But hitting it early isn't the only option. My approach varies a bit by crowd levels. Often, if you head to FoP, even at rope drop, you still end up waiting in the longest line in the park. If we head to FoP later in the day, we will have a long wait for FoP, but we will have short waits for EE, Safari, Navi, and Dino.

3. Another option is just to skip FoP. Eliminate that one ride, and touring the rest of the park is super easy. Personally, I tend to ride Flight of Passage, but it isn't essential. So that's a bit of a 3rd important aspect to touring - sacrifices.

4. Opportunism: Sometimes headliners have short waits. One strategy I use is always to use opportunistic strategy. If FoP has a short wait, I ride it.

With G+, I have, at times been able to tour rides according to whim, and get G+ back-to-back. Other times we opted to take whichever G+ popped up as available.

A few G+ passes tend to go quickly. TODAY- 7/8/23, it is NOON, and slinky is still available. On busy days Slinky is/was gone in mere seconds. Easter week, if someone didn't try to get Slinky at exactly 7am, they weren't getting it at all.

Conclusion: touring under G+ is somewhat of a blend of some planning, some strategy, and some total whim. One thing you can do - for free- is simply to get a feel for it now, when you don't have a trip booked. Open it and see what the trends are ahead of any visit.

 

[Splash4eva]

So let's do the math ... a day ticket to AK for today is $134. The park is open, the park is open from 8am to 7pm, so 11 hours, meaning each park hour costs $12.18 ... so at $15 for Genie+ you would need to save 73.9 minutes of line time to "buy back" enough active park time to break even


Using the Touring Plans Lines App for more accurate wait times. The waits in Animal Kingdom are currently:

- Dinosaur: 22 mins
- Tough to be a bug: 8 mins
- Kali River Rapids: 13 mins
- Kilimanjaro Safaris: 31 mins
- Navi River: 61 mins
- TriceraTop Spin: 4 mins
- Adventure Outpost: 29mins

Everest is down

So if you used it on Navi, Safaris, and Dinosaur - that alone is 114minutes saved. Less the 73.9m needed to break even, you are already ahead 40.1m

There is probably some wait after the merge point for each of those - so lets say the true wait is only 80% of the reported wait times, still 91.2mins saved and you would be up 17.3mins. Add in a use at Everest once it is up and you are potentially getting "value"

NOW this assumes no strategy or effort in targeting lower wait times- including not making rope drop/early entry when you can probably bang out a few of these with very minimal waits

So to me, using G+ at AK and EP especially is mostly just paying to be able to sleep in on your vacation and avoid rope drop and all that. If you don't care about that then really no use for G+

Im not targeting you but ive seen plenty use ticket prices of 1 day only but how many people are actually paying that for a ticket? My guess is the majority who visit parks are buying multi day tickets

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Im not targeting you but ive seen plenty use ticket prices of 1 day only but how many people are actually paying that for a ticket? My guess is the majority who visit parks are buying multi day tickets

That's fair. I actually the the % that do just buy a single day ticket is higher than we would expect, BUT of those that doing so I would think most are doing so at MK not AK so probably better to not use the regular 1-day price

So let's lower that - let's use the special 4-park ticket promotion they have which makes it $99 for each day.

That makes each hour cost $9, so you need to save 100 minutes to make up the cost of G+ at $15

just checked and current waits(again, per Touring Plans Lines App) are:
- Dinosaur: 35mins
- Kali River: 33mins
- Kilimanjaro Safaris: 31mins
- Navi River: 61mins

If we use it on those four rides it is a total of 160 mins. If we take 80% of that total to account for the post merge point waits you would still have, that is 128min, so still 28 minutes more than the break even point.

So still pretty easy to get "worth" out of G+ at AK at a $15 price point. Now, maybe 30ish minute waits aren't any big deal and so saving a few of those doesn't feel like any value to people, but for others I am sure it is worth it

(and playing it out further, it would take being down to about an $80 day ticket just to break even on when $15 for G+ would be worth it)

 

[Splash4eva]

That's fair. I actually the the % that do just buy a single day ticket is higher than we would expect, BUT of those that doing so I would think most are doing so at MK not AK so probably better to not use the regular 1-day price

So let's lower that - let's use the special 4-park ticket promotion they have which makes it $99 for each day.

That makes each hour cost $9, so you need to save 100 minutes to make up the cost of G+ at $15

just checked and current waits(again, per Touring Plans Lines App) are:
- Dinosaur: 35mins
- Kali River: 33mins
- Kilimanjaro Safaris: 31mins
- Navi River: 61mins

If we use it on those four rides it is a total of 160 mins. If we take 80% of that total to account for the post merge point waits you would still have, that is 128min, so still 28 minutes more than the break even point.

So still pretty easy to get "worth" out of G+ at AK at a $15 price point. Now, maybe 30ish minute waits aren't any big deal and so saving a few of those doesn't feel like any value to people, but for others I am sure it is worth it

(and playing it out further, it would take being down to about an $80 day ticket just to break even on when $15 for G+ would be worth it)

Ive said this before. Why wait on any lines if you dont have to… yes i get it comes at a cost but in the grand scheme of things the cost of Genie is a smalllllll percentage of the overall trip. Yes i know its feeding the beast but lets face it. Paid skip the line options are going nowhere ever so may as well just accept it and move on for those that are going. Others who have chosen to stop going bc of many factors this being one. God bless as well. But to me especially in this heat why not have the option to walk right on w Genie and then this allows for re rides on ones you want to do again