Disney's Live Action The Little Mermaid

[Californian Elitist]

Did Disney force Menken to edit his songs?

 

[Andrew C]

Did Disney force Menken to edit his songs?

 

[LittleBuford]

Yeah, but most of them were added before Disney became obsessed with trying to prove how "woke" or whatever they are.

So now you're shifting the goalposts to say that the classic IPs are there only as a legacy. Never mind the fact that they actively keep the older characters going through new parades, meet and greets, etc.

The fact of the matter is that there is very little evidence to support the claim that Disney is getting rid of old IPs. On the contrary, those IPs are continually being capitalised on. The fact that characters like Snow White and Dumbo are readily known to little children today despite being almost a century old is proof of their continuing vitality.

 

[LittleBuford]

Did Disney force Menken to edit his songs?

So much fuss over nothing. The old versions with the old lyrics are still there for those who can't handle the revisions.

 

[LittleBuford]

It's also worth remembering that the practice of revising content in response to changing attitudes/criticisms is not new and goes back to the days of Walt himself. Witness the editing of The Three Little Pigs to remove the Jewish peddler stereotype and of Fantasia to remove Sunflower. These changes happened well before most of us were even born.

 

[DKampy]

Maybe if someone else was changing the lyrics against Menkens wishes…I could see some opposing views, but when the original writer is the one who decided it needed a rewrite for todays culture then that should render all arguments against it pointless

 

[LittleBuford]

Maybe if someone else was changing the lyrics against Menkens wishes…I could see some opposing views, but when the original writer is the one who decided it needed a rewrite for todays culture then that should render all arguments against it pointless

It's worth noting, however, that the original lyricist was the late Howard Ashman.

 

[Californian Elitist]

So much fuss over nothing. The old versions with the old lyrics are still there for those who can't handle the revisions.

Exactly. The original songs are still available to listen to.

Also, it’s entirely possible and highly likely that Walt Disney changed some content from the original sources of his movies for the sake of audiences at the time. Why doesn’t one of the step-sisters cut off part of her foot in Disney’s Cinderella? Why isn’t Pinocchio hanged in Disney’s version?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

It's also worth remembering that the practice of revising content in response to changing attitudes/criticisms is not new and goes back to the days of Walt himself. Witness the editing of The Three Little Pigs to remove the Jewish peddler stereotype and of Fantasia to remove Sunflower. These changes happened well before most of us were even born.

I’m glad you wrote this because I was wondering if this was a new phenomenon, I was trying to remember if they provided warnings or were making changes to movies when we were kids.

The earliest I could remember was them changing the lyrics in Aladdin, which was early 90s if I remember right, when did they alter 3 pigs? Was that recently (90s) or before that?

(Read my post and suddenly feel old, I consider 90s “recent” and that’s 30 years ago.)

 

[LSLS]

(Read my post and suddenly feel old, I consider 90s “recent” and that’s 30 years ago.)

Ok, I've never done it before, but you are now going on block. How DARE you point that out.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think there is a pretty clear difference between adapting fairy tales told in many forms to make animated features, and specifically editing out words in previously published materials as to not offend anyone....

Changes are changes, if Walt changed the original fairy tale in order to work for the audience at the time how is that different than modern Disney doing the same thing?

These type of discussions about modern Disney never seem to remember that this isn't new, its been happening for the entire company history. It just never is seen as a bad thing when Walt did it because "its my childhood", etc.

 

[Disney Irish]

It's worth noting, however, that the original lyricist was the late Howard Ashman.

Aren't both technically credited, hence technically Menken is still changing his own work?

 

[Andrew C]

Changes are changes, if Walt changed the original fairy tale in order to work for the audience at the time how is that different than modern Disney doing the same thing?

These two examples are just completely different to me, so I just don't see it like you do. Also, if this was a one-off thing, it would be a big deal to me. But as mentioned, there is a more recent trend around publishers going back and changing the words of writers, etc. and I tend to put this in the same category. Maybe this can be seen as a bit different given that Menken is involved. But Howard Ashman certainly had no voice in whether he was okay with them changing his words...

 

[Disney Irish]

These two examples are just completely different to me, so I just don't see it like you do. Also, if this was a one-off thing, it would be a big deal to me. But as mentioned, there is a more recent trend around publishers going back and changing the words of writers, etc. and I tend to put this in the same category. Maybe this can be seen as a bit different given that Menken is involved. But Howard Ashman certainly had no voice in whether he was okay with them changing his words...

If the original intent of the work is still the same after the change then its hardly a travesty. Also in this case the work itself is owned by Disney, so its Disney changing Disney, again hardly a travesty.

 

[Andrew C]

If the original intent of the work is still the same after the change then it’s hardly a travesty. Also in this case the work itself is owned by Disney, so it’s Disney changing Disney, again hardly a travesty.

I have a different opinion on the matter. That’s all.

 

[Disney Irish]

I have a different opinion on the matter. That’s all.

We all have different opinions on these topics, and I acknowledge yours. Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion surrounding those differences.

 

[Andrew C]

We all have different opinions on these topics, and I acknowledge yours. Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion surrounding those differences.

We did. I just really don’t have anything left to say about it.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I was thinking about LittleBufords post and remembered the black centaur from Fantasia, I looked it up and she was removed in 1969, this has been happening for a very long time. I don’t think anyone would argue she should have remained because she was original to the story.

I think it’s “where they draw the line” that causes the controversy, the negative stereotype black centaur, the negative stereotype Jew in 3 little pigs… I don’t think you’d find many people upset they removed them… when you get into things less controversial it becomes far more subjective though.

Some of the things they’re changing feel justified, others don’t, but that’s going to change for everyone based on their individual beliefs.

 

[LittleBuford]

Aren't both technically credited, hence technically Menken is still changing his own work?

I believe the lyrics are credited to Ashman only. That doesn't mean they're sacrosanct and can't be changed for later iterations of the songs.

 

[LittleBuford]

I’m glad you wrote this because I was wondering if this was a new phenomenon, I was trying to remember if they provided warnings or were making changes to movies when we were kids.

The earliest I could remember was them changing the lyrics in Aladdin, which was early 90s if I remember right, when did they alter 3 pigs? Was that recently (90s) or before that?

(Read my post and suddenly feel old, I consider 90s “recent” and that’s 30 years ago.)

The Three Little Pigs example goes all the way back to 1948. It's notable that Disney was criticised for the peddler caricature almost immediately. The company's initial response was defensive (see the excerpt below), but in the post-Holocaust context, the scene became untenable and was changed.

I've mentioned this example before because it immediately disproves the notion that what is today disparaged as "wokeness" (by those who don't understand the term to begin with) is nothing new. Why are we OK with previous generations having made such revisions but so resistant to the idea today?

The Gospel according to Disney

In this follow-up to his bestselling The Gospel According to The Simpsons: The Spiritual Life of the World's Most Animated Family, religion journalist Mark Pinsky explores the role that the animated features of Walt Disney played on the moral and spiritual development of generations of children...

books.google.com