Nielsen Streaming Ratings

MisterPenguin · Dec 16, 2022

MisterPenguin · Dec 21, 2022

TP2000 · Dec 21, 2022

Fascinating stuff there @MisterPenguin. And I helped with the minutes for The Crown those weeks. I helped!

But how does the industry now equate those Nielsen ratings to profit for each studio?

In the 20th century, Nielsen ratings were gold because they proved how big the audience was and thus how much each network could charge advertisers for time slots for the biggest shows. So big hits with high Nielsen ratings like The Love Boat or Bonanza allowed their networks to charge a lot more for their weekly advertising slots, compared to cheap slots for unpopular shows like Hello, Larry or afternoon reruns of My Mother The Car. Immediate profits for networks and their corporate owners were determined by Nielsen ratings.

But now the 8 to 15 bucks per month for subscriptions buys everything Netflix or Disney+ or Peacock offer, so aside from just showing what people are interested in watching is there any way to quantify Nielsen minutes watched as a profit center? Or has Nielsen devolved into a tool for showing popularity and future viewership potential for an audience that already paid its 8 bucks?

Disney Irish · Dec 21, 2022

TP2000 said:
Fascinating stuff there @MisterPenguin. And I helped with the minutes for The Crown those weeks. I helped!

But how does the industry now equate those Nielsen ratings to profit for each studio?

In the 20th century, Nielsen ratings were gold because they proved how big the audience was and thus how much each network could charge advertisers for time slots for the biggest shows. So big hits with high Nielsen ratings like The Love Boat or Bonanza allowed their networks to charge a lot more for their weekly advertising slots, compared to cheap slots for unpopular shows like Hello, Larry or afternoon reruns of My Mother The Car. Immediate profits for networks and their corporate owners were determined by Nielsen ratings.

But now the 8 to 15 bucks per month for subscriptions buys everything Netflix or Disney+ or Peacock offer, so aside from just showing what people are interested in watching is there any way to quantify Nielsen minutes watched as a profit center? Or has Nielsen devolved into a tool for showing popularity and future viewership potential for an audience that already paid its 8 bucks?

Its called the Ad tier my friend.

Disney and Netflix now both offer an ad based subscription. And Disney sold $9B in ads for 2022/2023 with 40% going to streaming, that is ~$3.6B in revenue from advertising for D+, Hulu, and ESPN+.

TP2000 · Dec 21, 2022

Disney Irish said:
Its called the Ad tier my friend.

Disney and Netflix now both offer an ad based subscription. And Disney sold $9B in ads for 2022/2023 with 40% going to streaming, that is ~$3.6B in revenue from advertising for D+, Hulu, and ESPN+.

How many of the subscribers are in the ad tiers? I can see how Nielsen could boost the sales potential for ads during The Crown, just as it boosted the dollar rates for ads during The Love Boat.

But what about people who don't watch/see ads? It seems to me Nielsen is now used as a popularity rating for shows, but wouldn't all the streaming execs already have access to that info via their data usage? I'd imagine streaming execs have access to their viewership data and demographics in real time as it happens 24/7, without having to wait for Nielsen to release a report about it three weeks later.

Disney Irish · Dec 21, 2022

TP2000 said:
How many of the subscribers are in the ad tiers? I can see how Nielsen could boost the sales potential for ads during The Crown, just as it boosted the dollar rates for ads during The Love Boat.

But what about people who don't watch/see ads? It seems to me Nielsen is now used as a popularity rating for shows, but wouldn't all the streaming execs already have access to that info via their data usage? I'd imagine streaming execs have access to their viewership data and demographics in real time as it happens 24/7, without having to wait for Nielsen to release a report about it three weeks later.

I don't have the specific numbers. But its been said that ~25% of D+ subs went to the Ad tier, which is about 41M subs.

But yes while its being used to see what shows are popular on streaming for outside sources. Disney and other streamers have their own data to show which are popular and which make them money. We'll never see that data, and honestly Nielsen will never be able to show the ad revenue of a streaming show. But it can be extrapolated out longer term, and I'm sure many analysts will start doing that.

MisterPenguin · Dec 21, 2022

TP2000 said:
How many of the subscribers are in the ad tiers? I can see how Nielsen could boost the sales potential for ads during The Crown, just as it boosted the dollar rates for ads during The Love Boat.

But what about people who don't watch/see ads? It seems to me Nielsen is now used as a popularity rating for shows, but wouldn't all the streaming execs already have access to that info via their data usage? I'd imagine streaming execs have access to their viewership data and demographics in real time as it happens 24/7, without having to wait for Nielsen to release a report about it three weeks later.

The Nielsen numbers I post are a month old and are limited to certain streamers and to the "top ten" in a few categories.

It's a taste of what they can do to entice the streaming companies to buy the full breakdown of their competitors' numbers in a more timely manner.

And they seemed to have anticipated ad tiers, which, as you note with legacy TV, becomes a multiplier for ad fees.

TP2000 · Dec 21, 2022

MisterPenguin said:
It's a taste of what they can do to entice the streaming companies to buy the full breakdown of their competitors' numbers in a more timely manner.

Oh, there's the value! I think you just nailed it.

Obviously, Burbank execs in 2022 could log on and see immediately how many people are streaming their Disney+ shows this evening. All in real time, and in far more demographic detail than Nielsen could ever provide the day after, or a week later.

But the Nielsen group is probably trying to stay in business by giving at least a decent view of what the competition is doing and how many viewers in each demographic they've got.

Helping to sell commercial airtime to Dial Soap and General Mills and Chrysler during the most watched blocks of airtime for The Love Boat was obviously a lucrative business model for Nielsen 50 years ago, when they paid a few thousand Americans to plug a Nielsen box into their TV set. But I'm just curious how Nielsen tries to still sell that type of info when the streaming technology gives instant and insanely detailed real time audience information to any Burbank exec who wants it.

It's who is watching the competition that must keep Nielsen in business in the 2020's. At least for now.

MisterPenguin · Dec 21, 2022

TP2000 said:
Oh, there's the value! I think you just nailed it.

Obviously, Burbank execs in 2022 could log on and see immediately how many people are streaming their Disney+ shows this evening. All in real time, and in far more demographic detail than Nielsen could ever provide the day after, or a week later.

But the Nielsen group is probably trying to stay in business by giving at least a decent view of what the competition is doing and how many viewers in each demographic they've got.

Helping to sell commercial airtime to Dial Soap and General Mills and Chrysler during the most watched blocks of airtime for The Love Boat was obviously a lucrative business model for Nielsen 50 years ago, when they paid a few thousand Americans to plug a Nielsen box into their TV set. But I'm just curious how Nielsen tries to still sell that type of info when the streaming technology gives instant and insanely detailed real time audience information to any Burbank exec who wants it.

It's who is watching the competition that must keep Nielsen in business in the 2020's. At least for now.

It's good to have the honest viewing numbers so that Disney charges a fair price to Palmolive for Madge to tell the Scarlet Witch that she's soaking in it.

BrianLo · Dec 28, 2022

TP2000 said:
Fascinating stuff there @MisterPenguin. And I helped with the minutes for The Crown those weeks. I helped!

But how does the industry now equate those Nielsen ratings to profit for each studio?

In the 20th century, Nielsen ratings were gold because they proved how big the audience was and thus how much each network could charge advertisers for time slots for the biggest shows. So big hits with high Nielsen ratings like The Love Boat or Bonanza allowed their networks to charge a lot more for their weekly advertising slots, compared to cheap slots for unpopular shows like Hello, Larry or afternoon reruns of My Mother The Car. Immediate profits for networks and their corporate owners were determined by Nielsen ratings.

But now the 8 to 15 bucks per month for subscriptions buys everything Netflix or Disney+ or Peacock offer, so aside from just showing what people are interested in watching is there any way to quantify Nielsen minutes watched as a profit center? Or has Nielsen devolved into a tool for showing popularity and future viewership potential for an audience that already paid its 8 bucks?

You aren't wrong and with streaming there is really no such thing as a more valuable time slot or less. It's all a la carte. If 3 people watch a show they charge for 3 ads, if 10 watch another they charge for 10. Streaming brings all the data in house.

I see Nielsen serving the exact same purpose as By the Numbers or Box Office Mojo. The Studios have all that data in house, but it's at least an interesting publicly available tool we can still watch. Otherwise the data is increasingly internal and proprietary. For a while the public and competitors had very little insight into how Netflix shows were actually performing, unless Netflix felt the need to brag about a certain show.

What I would like is for Nielsen to track maybe the 50 or so shows/movies annually, cumulatively. Partially because its somewhat disingenuous to compare Netflix shows that promote a single week worth of binging compared to Disney (or Apple etc.) once a week episode releases.

Yes, Wednesday had 6 billion minutes this past chart, but Andor for instance has had a near cumulative 6 billion over the last 10. Not implying Andor is on the same numbers at the end of the day, but it wasn't very touted despite actually doing very consistent respectable numbers. Netflix is all about the 'opening weekend' and moving on to the next distraction. The other streamers lean a bit more into the 'legs'.

Edit: Nevermind, I forgot they do this. I guess I just need to be patient and wait for mid January.