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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

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yensidtlaw1969

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Smiley/OCD said:
And I've said it before (maybe on page 43, lol) that the ONLY reason Tony Baxter is on board is to save face between the diehard fans of Splash and TWDC...as soon as it opens, (well, maybe within 6 months) Tony is going to retire and sail off into the sunset...if anyone thinks the multitude of unique AA's, which is one of the reasons Splash was so awesome IMHO, are going to remain, I can't (and won't) help you...I'd offer to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge, but these days, you'd make too much money from tolls...perhaps some crypto currency from FTX
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At the risk of undermining the veracity of your other statements . . . the Brooklyn Bridge is toll free.
 
MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I'll reiterate that the last claim I was made aware of is that the overhaul has a very healthy budget now. Substantially increased multiple times after initial negative reactions. And it will apparently not result in a reduction of the animatronics. Allegedly they're keeping the existing Splash AA's and also adding a decent number of new top of the line ones for the added human characters (I assume this to mean the type used for Beauty and the Beast with physical robotic faces, not projection).

Feel free to take this with a mine of salt. But again, these claims are from someone who is most definitely no Disney shill (quite the opposite) and hated this overhaul as much as anyone reasonably can. They've been through all of the same criticism and concerns as myself and everyone else here. It cannot be overstated how much venom they were spewing at this overhaul up until very recently. And indeed, earlier variations of the ride were looking to be disastrous (anemic budget, mass removal of AA's, screens and empty blank sets, bad story etc). So their sudden shift in opinion to "the new finalized concept actually looks really promising and could be as good as Splash" got my attention.

If you're someone who is only interested in the Song of the South IP and characters and can't accept anything else, then I couldn't say whether you would like this ride. But if you're someone in the "bargaining" stage of grief at this point and are just hoping for a quality ride that can stand up against Splash Mountain on its own merits (which to me would mean a good old days AA-rich classic Disney ride), a "wait and see" approach can't hurt. There will be ample opportunity to absolutely tear into the ride if it does turn out awful. I'll also be rejoining everyone if these claims end up being false, and shoot the messenger if they were lying (though again i've little reason to assume they are).
 
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MaximumEd

MaximumEd

Well-Known Member
gianguy said:
At the expense of what exactly? None of this is changing, unless you don't consider PaTF to have a great story / catchy music which, to be fair, is a legitimate criticism. They're not changing the ride's capacity, the ride isn't going to become shorter, they're certainly not rerouting the railroad, and the whole "less AA's" argument is based off of pure speculation. I understand the sentiment but all the things that you described that make Splash Mountain so great are not expected to change. Same setting, different IP.
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At the expense of reimagining one to the other instead of just building the other. Same way it was a mistake to kill GMR for Railway when you have Launch Bay begging to be used for a ride. The parks are lacking capacity and we keep getting replacements instead of additions.
 
Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Trauma said:
I’m not going to let you bait me.

If you’re curious, you can look at how DISNEY has responded to negative criticism of Star Wars, or Ms. Marvel.
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Man, Ms. Marvel was just excellent. The villains were a bit rushed, but the character work and directing were spectacular. And Iman Vellani was an amazing find, tremendously charming - Marvels casting is incredible.

So what particular criticism do you mean? And what was objectionable about Disney’s response?
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
_caleb said:
So is this a new development--Tony Baxter's supposed lack of integrity--or has he always been a person of low character?

What sort of person was he when he proposed an attraction that included characters from Song of the South?
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The dude knows good themed entertainment. That is why you find him more at Universal Orlando's HHN than you do on Disney property these days.

I can't blame him for cashing the check and making the best out of it.
 
Incomudro

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
Smiley/OCD said:
Egg on my face…just naturally assumed that EVERY bridge in NYC had a toll…I guess I should change it to the Verrazano…lol THAT, I know you need a home equity loan to cross (especially in a truck) lol
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As a former Staten Islander the Verrazano Bridge toll is so high that I used to refer to it as an admission fee.
Matter of fact, I used to say that it was so expensive it should do something like rides do.
Perhaps have a loop on it.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Trauma said:
I’m not going to let you bait me.

If you’re curious, you can look at how DISNEY has responded to negative criticism of Star Wars, or Ms. Marvel.
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Baiting people isn’t my style. I just wish that people would actually say what they mean rather than hide behind insinuations.

Your suggestion for how I might satisfy my curiosity hasn’t helped, because Disney’s official responses to the controversies you mention are predictably bland and safe. Perhaps I’m missing something, but if you won’t tell me, that’s on you for being evasive, not me for supposedly baiting you.
 
MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
Again, this doesn’t help. I don’t think Disney itself has ever come close to branding a negative reaction from fans as racist. If you have evidence to the contrary, I’ll gladly apologise for my ignorance.
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Disney leadership are generally careful enough not to get too directly involved in antagonistic behavior towards critics. Instead, they'll let the directors or actors do the work for them. Or their army of social media bloggers or celeb-wannabe cast members. There's been a lot of dogpiling happening on twitter. It makes me glad I don't have an account there.

Disney at best turns a blind eye to this behavior, but it's also fairly obvious that they've been happy to stoke the flames as well. Calling someone a bigot has become an effective tool at side-stepping and crushing legitimate criticism, even criticism has nothing remotely bigoted about it. I somewhat expect mods to remove this post as well because i've had similar posts targeted in the past.

This time though, it sounds like the salt mine concept was such a poor one that nearly everyone is against the idea. Except apparently the team who came up with it for some reason... I'm much more hopeful that the ride might end up being decent now given what I was told, but the salt mine is still one aspect that will be a knock against it. Hopefully it's just a queue/backstory thing and won't be as focused on during the ride itself.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
MerlinTheGoat said:
Disney leadership are generally careful enough not to get too directly involved in antagonistic behavior towards critics. Instead, they'll let the directors or actors do the work for them. Or their army of social media bloggers or celeb-wannabe cast members. There's been a lot of dogpiling happening on twitter. It makes me glad I don't have an account there.

Disney at best turns a blind eye to this behavior, but it's also fairly obvious that they've been happy to stoke the flames as well. Calling someone a bigot has become an effective tool at side-stepping and crushing legitimate criticism, even criticism has nothing remotely bigoted about it. I somewhat expect mods to remove this post as well because i've had similar posts targeted in the past.

This time though, it sounds like the salt mine concept was such a poor one that nearly everyone is against the idea. Except apparently the team who came up with it for some reason... I'm much more hopeful that the ride might end up being decent now given what I was told, but the salt mine is still one aspect that will be a knock against it. Hopefully it's just a queue/backstory thing and won't be as focused on during the ride itself.
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It’s subjective, of course, but I feel that criticisms rooted in artistic shortcomings are pretty easy to distinguish from those motivated by other factors. The latter tend to be characterised by a recurrent set of talking points that are imagined to be subtle and clever but which readily betray the thinking behind them.
 
T

Trauma

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
Again, this doesn’t help. I don’t think Disney itself has ever come close to branding a negative reaction from fans as racist. If you have evidence to the contrary, I’ll gladly apologise for my ignoranc.
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Not the company directly in some sort of press release. But many people who represent the company have.
 
MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
It’s subjective, of course, but I feel that criticisms rooted in artistic shortcomings are pretty easy to distinguish from those motivated by other factors. The latter tend to be characterised by a recurrent set of talking points that are imagined to be subtle and clever but which readily betray the thinking behind them.
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I have seen broad "if you like Splash Mountain, you're a racist and I'm happy you're unhappy" comments all over social media. I believe a couple were shared earlier in this thread (might have been the one that moved to the political section and was deleted though). Not from Disney's executives or internal PR department, but from their army of bloggers and even cast members. Or just online crazies who don't even visit Disney parks but are looking for a fight.

There has been no distinction in my experience between people who are actual bigots and just normal fans who legitimately love the ride (the latter of whom are the vast majority from my experience). Disney's control and influence over these people is well known, even if you won't ever see them admit to it. And I can assure you they are happy to have an army who can employ just one or two personal insults (even if entirely false and unrelated) that can crush all dissent and shame people into submission.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
MerlinTheGoat said:
There has been no distinction in my experience between people who are actual bigots and just normal fans who legitimately love the ride (the latter of whom are the vast majority from my experience).
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We’ve seen the distinction play out multiple times in this thread. @Casper Gutman has voiced criticism of the retheme without being labelled a bigot. While not quite as critical, I too have expressed my doubts about the food-cooperative storyline and likewise escaped the kind of censure you’re claiming that Disney secretly promotes.

It is perfectly possible to criticise something without being misinterpreted or unfairly maligned. We see it happen every day, no matter how many times some here claim that any and all criticism is forbidden.
 
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