SplashJacket
Well-Known Member
Baldwin park flooding still rising
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Hurricane Ian expected to impact Florida (updates and related discussions)
- Thread starter Touchdown
- Start date
Baldwin park flooding still rising
DryerLintFan
Premium Member
Yeah I expect it will be at least a year before we'll be able to get a new cage up. Prior to the storm there were some houses going up really really slowly in the neighborhood because there were already supply and labor shortages. Or will be even worse now.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Sensationalism.
It really all boils down to 'scale'. Like a tornado... incredibly destructive, but also incredibly focused. One spot can tear a brick building down, while 100ft to the side can just get some dirt damage.
Wind
Hurricane Winds are incredibly strong, but only in a small portion of the total storm coverage. The vast majority of the storm gets like 40-50mph winds which you can see during any typical strong thunderstorm. The difference is the duration, so weak structures can degrade during the sustained onslaught. But short of debris damage, these kinds of winds are not really a major threat to modern construction, especially in an area built for it. The main damage is typically downed trees which get weakened with saturated ground. Other damage picked up tends to not be catastrophic, just property damage.
The main risk for wind is the high 100+mph winds that the storm carries near its core. These winds can be destructive to structures, and unlike a tornado, these winds will impact a sizable area for a sustained period of time. But while a major storm like this can live on for almost a week, these destructive winds die off very quickly once a storm is over land and fight real obstructions and not just warm water feeding it. So these major risk winds tend to only be a risk in the 50-100ish mile area around where the storm initially hits. So wind damage can happen anywhere along the storm's path, but real disaster level wind damage is really only a major risk in the immediate area where the storm first comes ashore. Most cat 1-3 storms weaken so quickly the wind risk is really only in the first 6-10hrs or so. (hitting islands is different, because the storms tend to recover and rebuild after passing over a small island).
Surge
Storm surge is a topic that really is about the intersection of vulnerability and scale. Areas can see tidal surges of 3-4 feet almost anytime.. or local rains can bring rivers up 3-6ft etc depending on the locale. As long as the area is used to that kind of water rise, it's really no big deal (disaster wise). Anyone who lives on the water with piers, houses, etc are used to the idea of unusually high surges from even regular storms that just happen to align the correct direction.
The problem become when the surge hits an area not tolerant of higher water (vulnerable) due to elevation or structure exposure to the waterfront OR the surge scale is so massive it will overwhelm the usual accommodations. The situation is exaggerated when water that gets past the shoreline can hang around or not drain back towards the open water due to low lying areas. This is how you see 'whole towns flooded' instead of just the first few blocks of ocean front. The flatter the area, the further water will typically make it inland.
The worst part of the storm surge in terms of height will be very localized to near the center of the storm where the wind and low pressure is the strongest. The leading edge exposed to the eastern side of the storm where the wind is pushing is also more at risk. So while a whole coastal area will see some storm surge, typically it's within normal kind of storm levels... its only some areas that face real severe levels and depending on their vulnerability, can be the difference between 'a town flooded' and 'most of a county' flooded.
Surge is more dangerous to both structures and people because it tends to be highly energetic and fast moving. So it will smash things, move cars, sweep people away, and tends to trap people who thought they were otherwise not at risk before. Storm surge is basically a mini tsunami in destruction.
Rain
Rain is the real factor that actually impacts large areas of a hurricane. Because it can be so high volume AND sustained AND over a large area. Increased development can hinder an area's ability to drain. Areas that are already prone to flooding due to land features are especially vulnerable due to the high rate and volume. Other low lying areas that may not be otherwise be flood prone due to nearby creeks/rivers can be at risk of standing water due to drainage.
Standing water flooding along with rivers overflowing are the main risks that even inland areas can face from a hurricane. They VERY rarely have to deal with much risk from wind or other factors. And standing water doesn't have nearly the danger factor that surge has because it's not usually swift water and it usually doesn't come up as quick.
Sustained rain can soften the ground so more trees fall and low lying areas can flood due to nowhere for the water to go.
This is why most people feel fine not evacuating for storms.
1) They know that the kind of damage they are facing tends to not be life threatening
2) They know the area to see the worst will be very localized - so 'its them, not me'
3) They believe they know their area's vulnerability/risk factors for flooding or surge exposure
The problems become when there are intersections of greater vulnerability combined with 'direct hit'. Because the 'direct hit' area is so small relatively, its pretty rare for the storms to 'hit that bullseye'. Stories like Katrina, Andrew,, and Harvey (Houston) are stories of direct hit + extreme strength + extending vulnerabilities.
For places like central FL - the biggest risk is extreme rain + a stalled system. Coastal towns have to fear direct hits for fear of storm surge and wind damage. But direct hits are pretty rare for most people's lifetimes.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
Usually around there when your cage blows away the neighbors blows in to replace it.,.,.
That’s a given. Even though WDW is aiming for Fri opening if the cast can’t come to work either parks will still remain closed and or certain attractions or other venues will not operate due to trained cast not able to come to work.A good update from Tom Bricker on WDW status and closures.
Disney World Closed Due to Hurricane Ian
All 4 theme parks and more are closed at Walt Disney World due to Hurricane Ian. Magic Kingdom, EPCOT, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom won't reopen until after the storm passes Orlando. Additionally, there arewww.disneytouristblog.com
flynnibus
Premium Member
If they still don't have power after 2-3 days let's entertain that grievance. Not during the storm still.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Is it more likely Duke Energy would use those rate increases to harden infrastructure?
…or to develop more direct payment or portals or “remote shutoff technology”?
mickeyfan73
Member
Live chopter... heading over to sanibel
flynnibus
Premium Member
It's like watching siding coming off a house. It's a system intended to be supported by it's adjacent pieces... when you have just one failure you tend to get that expansion of it too.
I'm sure the biggest issue is the large scale rain intrusion that would have happened and the risk of standing water where it shouldn't be. You wouldn't want a 'utility pit flooded' kind of situation.
peter11435
Well-Known Member
What? We have the ability to prevent most of them from ever loosing power in the first place. We shouldn’t just accept that loss of power is a certainty when there are things we can do to largely prevent it. There are actual risks and documented dangers with our current inadequate infrastructure beyond just not being able to turn on a light
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Walt was smart…it’s as “hurricane protected” in Florida as you can possibly bePreliminary report from National Weather Service suggests Walt Disney World was largely spared from high wind speeds
Preliminary report from National Weather Service suggests Walt Disney World was largely spared from high wind speeds
Preliminary report from National Weather Service suggests Walt Disney World was largely spared from high wind speedswww.wdwmagic.com
Spirit of Adventure
Member
Took a quick stroll around our area of CBR. Looks like a small tree has fallen and there's plenty of branches strewn about. No flooding around here though.
Also, another nod to CMs. Not only has she been given the short straw for being on post-hurricane clean-up ops, but she couldn't have been more obliging with taking our soaking wet flood-defence towels from us - as if she's not got enough to be doing!
Also, another nod to CMs. Not only has she been given the short straw for being on post-hurricane clean-up ops, but she couldn't have been more obliging with taking our soaking wet flood-defence towels from us - as if she's not got enough to be doing!
Attachments
peter11435
Well-Known Member
They would say they would use it to harden infrastructure but then use it to line their pockets
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
The "technology" has existed for probably 100 years. It's called put the power lines underground. However, while that is much better against wind damage (not 100% because an uprooted tree can rip the lines out), it is more vulnerable to flooding causing issues.
Underground wiring is a lot more expensive, especially switching above ground lines to underground and nobody wants to pay for it. In new neighborhoods for at least 30 years the lines are underground but the developer pays for it and adds it to the cost of the new homes or lots. Plus it is somewhat cheaper before development when they can just dig a trench and lay conduit without worrying about damaging existing property.
JohnD
Well-Known Member
I know you're asking in jest. No, obviously. Crews need at least a day for cleanup. Additionally they don't want to encourage people to get on the road in dangerous traffic conditions immediately after the storm. Chance of a Friday opening is 50-50 and more likely later in the day if the parks do open.Great, so they will open again this afternoon?
mightynine
Well-Known Member
Probably kept some of the old pilings for fishing. I believe they did the same when they rebuilt the Twin Spans in New Orleans after Katrina.
The other half of that is in the event of damage, if the lines are underground, it is often difficult to pinpoint where the damage occurred, and the entire line frequently needs replacement, and its much more time consuming to do everything, so even if there is less damage with it being underground, it can take more time to fix the damage that does occur. Underground lines are still frequently destroyed by tree roots when a tree topples over.
