Professortango1
Well-Known Member
Or a pass that runs annually that gets you in free for up to 14 visits. Annual Pass doesn't need to mean unlimited, it's just some sort of savings pass that runs on a 12 month cycle.
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Disneyland passholder lawsuit alleges Magic Key deceptively advertises no blockout dates - OCR
- Thread starter AJFireman
- Start date
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
#1, a park hopper 5 day ticket is $136 for lowest price. Park hopping is a $60 upsell from the $76 per day.
#2, tickets must be used within 13 days of the first use. The proposed plan would be 14 visits any time of year, not within a 2 week window.
So sure, people could choose to spend $2,040 on 3 5 day park hoppers and use each 5 day groupings within 2 weeks. And still pay for parking and receive no discounts.
Or come whenever you'd like for $2,500 and get free parking and save on food and merch.
Considering the tickets alone are a $3,100 value plus parking a food/merch savings, you are saving about $1,000 by buying an AP with 14 visits vs buying 14 park hoppers.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I have been suggesting a capped visit AP system for years. Way before reservations were an itch in Chapeks pants and only because I never foresaw a reservation system for Disneyland being feasible. Anyway, Capped APs would work for us with our visiting patterns of going 1-2 planned trips a month and also because I’m all about quality over quantity. With that said I don’t see this pricing structure being feasible for families. Even with zero percent interest, you re starting to get into the territory of comparisons to financing a small car. $2500x 4 = 10k. Now I get that demand for Disney parks is through the roof. I mean my own sister and bro in law must have purchased at least 5 day tickets each before Keys were reintroduced but I don’t think it’s sustainable.
In my suggestions over the years I had the sacrifice on the consumers side being the # of visits, not an extreme price hike. Extremely limiting the # of visits AND a 50 % price increase wouldn’t be alluring for many people. Most importantly of all - Disney as they would lose a lot of money. Maybe in a few years when a loaf of bread is $20 we’ll see $2500 APs.
On another note, the reservation system has taught me that Disney is not interested in limiting guests attendance to increase customer satisfaction. Not sure who started that myth. They want as many people possible spending all their money. Sure, maybe they re trying to avoid NYE level crowds but I think there more than happy keeping the parks packed just a notch or two below that all year.
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TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Why?
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Oh just in threads that were discussing solutions for AP overcrowding. In hindsight, I see that system most likely would not work. Meaning Disney wouldn’t be making the money they want.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
A capped system (2-3 days a month) would work for us too but I wonder if it could end up making things worse depending on how often the average AP is currently going.
It would severely limit the people who go several times a week but I suspect they are the minority, I could be 100% wrong but I bet most APs currently probably go a few days a month or less. Limit those people to say 3 days a month and they’ll likely use them all every month just so they don’t go to waste.
I’d love to see the breakdown of what percent of keyholders go daily, weekly, monthly etc. I’m sure Disney has all that info and has already considered every idea we could possibly come up with.
The idea of selling days is interesting though, lowest pass gets 10 days a year, then 20, then 30, and offer an unlimited days pass for an obscene price.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
To me, the selling point was that I had a card in my wallet that allowed me to access any USA Disney park at anytime. That was why I was willing to pay $2k+ a year.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
Exactly. People who see the value and like the parks will pay. If people can't afford it, they can still buy day tickets or multi-day tickets.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
It solves a multitude of issues. Every time special merch is released, it survives a few more days on shelves or encourages people to buy day tickets to snag it. People who use the park like a gym membership and come several times a week to soak up resources without paying for anything have their impact greatly reduced. Parks become more user friendly for new visitors leading to higher guest satisfaction and repeat business. Disney doesn't have to create so many layovers and events to appease their APers who want more than the Disney theme park experience because they've seen that already.
Ever since the passes went monthly, the guest experience has gotten worse and worse. Its time to restore some balance.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
PERFECT! Call it anything you like!
This hypothetical exercise was just to try to come up with an AP (or whatever you want to call it) that did limit the number of days an AP could be in the park without blackouts or park pass reservations.
Just trying to find a middle of the road solution.
I really hate having to make park pass reservations. Maybe some folks love them or think it’s the “right” thing to do, but I hate them but I digress..
Who knows, maybe TWDC will eliminate APs totally (we can hear all the non locals cheering) then all will be right with the world.
It makes you think why was there ever these beautiful, glorious, APs in the first place?
I guess at one time there was a correlation between revenue and attendance?
Today, they know better. Simply charge less people more money
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Because it’s a brilliant business move. The majority of AP’s for any park / attraction barely get their money’s worth.
In California specifically, there may be a case for eliminating the cheaper local passes.
It’s like a restaurant offering free refills and then changing the policy because a few guests get too many refills. Stop wasting time worrying, the majority of guests are only getting 1 drink, it’s fine. If enough guests are getting too many refills then raise the price a little to cover your costs.
Ironically, I’m talking about a company who pays extra money per cup to install computer chips to keep guests from getting too many refills.
el_super
Well-Known Member
It's only brilliant while it works. It works because Disney gives up something (a discount) to get something (attendance when they need it). The caveat of the AP is that the AP holder gives up some freedom to go when they want (due to blockouts) in exchange for a discount on admission.
As there become more and more APs, the system starts to break down. Demand starts increasing on the least busy days. Too many APs start shifting attendance patterns, making traditionally slower periods the craziest days to go. When that starts to happen, Disneyland will have to implement more and more controls over visitation to control it.
So yeah, generally there's nothing wrong with the AP or Magic Key program, but as long as it exists, we're going to be stuck with reservations, blockout dates, and pauses on selling certain AP types. If the passes keep selling the way they have been, eventually they will have to start adding more restrictions and more tiers and create an even more convoluted system.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Systems like the RFID cups are not about 'keeping guests from getting too many refills' - but are to ensure you aren't losing sales to sharing and stealing (like getting drinks without paying at all). It allows you to police the fill stations without any labor at all and avoid painful confrontations.Because it’s a brilliant business move. The majority of AP’s for any park / attraction barely get their money’s worth.
In California specifically, there may be a case for eliminating the cheaper local passes.
It’s like a restaurant offering free refills and then changing the policy because a few guests get too many refills. Stop wasting time worrying, the majority of guests are only getting 1 drink, it’s fine. If enough guests are getting too many refills then raise the price a little to cover your costs.
Ironically, I’m talking about a company who pays extra money per cup to install computer chips to keep guests from getting too many refills.
It's a tool to drive sales by eliminating casual theft and reduces labor costs at the same time.
No matter what price Disney charges for APs - the topic of managing the AP impact on any given day is still a need. Pricing doesn't change that - ACCESS does.
The simple point being raised in this tangent is the idea that an AP is not a limited resource for the consumer. To manage AP impacts, you either need to limit their access to use it (like reservations) or limit their ability to use it (limit uses).
The problem with simply limiting ability to use is you don't stop the problem of APs aligning to all use their limited uses at the same time (think... Ride Opening..). This is why the 'limit their access' model is preferred. You as the operator can throttle how much of your capacity is being used by the discounted admission user.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
That is one of the things that system does though, it limits the number of refills one can receive.
flynnibus
Premium Member
But not WHY you bother.. the point is to drive more sales by eliminating sharing and reducing labor.
The system isn't to limit how much coke someone gets.. it's to drive to the ideal of 1 paid cup per consumer.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Yes, i made a general statement. Either way it’s silly from a business perspective just like it’s silly to limit when passholders can enter the park.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
Its not silly though. I have tried to visit Disney parks 4 times this year. Each time, there were no availability. Parks filled with people paying gym membership prices and no room for people looking to spend $200 a ticket.
That's like a movie theatre only selling monthly passes. Why turn away people looking to see a movie for $15 a seat to instead serve a group looking to spend only $5 per seat.
I do think the parks should ditch reservations and become first come first served. All the after-work APers would likely pitch a fit though since parks would reach capacity before they could arrive.
Maybe turn the AP's into an after 5 pass. $1500, no blackout days, but you can't enter before 5 and subject to capacity rules.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Florida or California?
Either way the problem is staffing and Disney wanting to use reservations to “maximize profits” (in quotes because it maximizes short term profits at the expense of long term profits and grwoth).
Both coasts have an easy solution, sell discount passes with lots of blackout dates for the castle parks, those are the only parks that have significant capacity issues. In Florida there is no excuse other than laziness. In California it’s a bit more complicated but galaxies edge SHOULD have added more capacity than it did. That section of land should be packed with people eating shows, attractions and restaurants. But that’s another debate.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
Both coasts. Had a long layover in Orlando and a friend and I were going to hit up Animal Kingdom for 4 hours. But reservations weren't available weeks in advance. Been invited to head to Disneyland a few times with advanced notice, but had to do something else due to no reservations available. In all of these cases, we went and spent our time and money at other parks.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
I’d love to know if demand is actually up, staffing issues are limiting attendance, or Disney is limiting attendance for CS reasons.
The parks rarely ever sold out before, now it’s several times a week, I find it hard to believe attendance is up that much, especially since the parks don’t look anywhere near Christmas crowds.
Wondering if this is temporary due to staffing issues or if this is the new normal.