Disneyland passholder lawsuit alleges Magic Key deceptively advertises no blockout dates - OCR

[Disstevefan1]

But how would you prevent them from all going on Saturday?



Of course they want APs in the park. Having the extra revenue on days when the ticket sales are slow, is a win-win for everyone. People get cheap admission to the park, and Disney gets to sell overpriced churros to the masses.

What doesn't work is when your discounting program to bring in extra people on slow says, starts dictating when and where your slow days will be. When things shifted, and Saturday and Sunday became the slowest days of the week, they knew they had a problem. When Cast Members were forced to park at Angel Stadium on the Monday in August that the So Cal APs were unblocked, is when they realized they had a problem. When the regular ticketed tourists started complaining about how crowded the park was, and threatening to go less, while Disney chased the discounted admissions, was when they had a problem.

They've used blockout dates to try and force the market at large, to change their habits and visitation strategy, and from introducing the blockout dates in the 90s, adding AP tiers, fiddling with park hopping and all the way up to the reservations, they have failed to control it. Like Frankenstein's monster, the AP program is still out of control. Removing the reservations would be disastrous to the system.

My guess is, after this lawsuit, they will slowly start to eliminate the concept of the blockout date, and work to make the reservation system clearer and more fair. But the reservations aren't going away.

There could be up to 52 Saturday’s in a year, if a local wants to use all 14 of their visits on 14 of the 52 Saturday’s, the local is still limited to 14 visits.

Look, I know there are AP haters out there and the haters say all the crowding problems are caused by APers, I was just proposing an idea, that’s all.

Only time will tell. Let’s see what’s the crowds look like going forward with all those nasty APs gone..

Nothing we say here will make any difference. What TWDC wants the most is to sell AP and for those folks to stay home.

 

[el_super]

There could be up to 52 Saturday’s in a year, if a local wants to use all 14 of their visits on 14 of the 52 Saturday’s, the local is still limited to 14 visits.

No I mean .... how would you prevent the entire population of AP holders from coming down on a Saturday and clogging up the place?

Or imagine that it's NAMM weekend, and a bunch of out-of-towners are willing to pay $150 to see Disneyland for a day, but the place is packed and miserable?

At a certain level of crowding, the gates would need to be closed for safety reasons anyway, so the result is, some people go down there and find out they just can't get in. Wouldn't it be helpful to just tell them ahead of time they can't get in so they don't bother to make the trip?

 

[Disstevefan1]

No I mean .... how would you prevent the entire population of AP holders from coming down on a Saturday and clogging up the place?

Or imagine that it's NAMM weekend, and a bunch of out-of-towners are willing to pay $150 to see Disneyland for a day, but the place is packed and miserable?

At a certain level of crowding, the gates would need to be closed for safety reasons anyway, so the result is, some people go down there and find out they just can't get in. Wouldn't it be helpful to just tell them ahead of time they can't get in so they don't bother to make the trip?

I am totally OK with closing to capacity like the old days. First come, first serve. Heck, make “full” some lower number if you want to reduce crowds! That’s the real solution!!!! Folks staying on site already counted as in the park, folks not staying on site, first come first serve until the now “lower” number is hit.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

But how would you prevent them from all going on Saturday?



Of course they want APs in the park. Having the extra revenue on days when the ticket sales are slow, is a win-win for everyone. People get cheap admission to the park, and Disney gets to sell overpriced churros to the masses.

What doesn't work is when your discounting program to bring in extra people on slow says, starts dictating when and where your slow days will be. When things shifted, and Saturday and Sunday became the slowest days of the week, they knew they had a problem. When Cast Members were forced to park at Angel Stadium on the Monday in August that the So Cal APs were unblocked, is when they realized they had a problem. When the regular ticketed tourists started complaining about how crowded the park was, and threatening to go less, while Disney chased the discounted admissions, was when they had a problem.

They've used blockout dates to try and force the market at large, to change their habits and visitation strategy, and from introducing the blockout dates in the 90s, adding AP tiers, fiddling with park hopping and all the way up to the reservations, they have failed to control it. Like Frankenstein's monster, the AP program is still out of control. Removing the reservations would be disastrous to the system.

My guess is, after this lawsuit, they will slowly start to eliminate the concept of the blockout date, and work to make the reservation system clearer and more fair. But the reservations aren't going away.

Sounds like Disneyland day tickets are so overpriced the only way to get enough people in the door is via a discount day program.

If that’s the case the only viable solutions are 1) get rid of APs and severely reduce ticket prices so they can sell enough day passes to fill up the parks (never going to happen) or 2) severely increase the price of the APs to reduce demand.

What they are trying with Frankenstein option 3) an affordable AP program with reservations has resulted in unhappy guests and a lawsuit, I’d call that a complete failure that is not sustainable.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I am totally OK with closing to capacity like the old days. First come, first serve. Heck, make “full” some lower number if you want to reduce crowds! That’s the real solution!!!! Folks staying on site already counted as in the park, folks not staying on site, first come first serve until the now “lower” number is hit.

Under old demand I agree (we all knew Christmas, New Years, and a handful of holidays were a risk) but it would never work now with most days selling out, having to drive all the way to the park only to find out it’s sold out 90% of the time would be disastrous customer service.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Under old demand I agree (we all knew Christmas, New Years, and a handful of holidays were a risk) but it would never work now with most days selling out, having to drive all the way to the park only to find out it’s sold out 90% of the time would be disastrous customer service.

Just my opinion, but what they did to all those APers at DLR is disastrous customer service.

 

[mikenatcity1]

Just my opinion, but what they did to all those APers at DLR is disastrous customer service.

i'm one of those APers at DLR... in October, I'll admit, it was horrible. However, Disney has since really worked to correct the issue and since end of October, early November, I've had no issues getting dates I want...they always have come available. Heck, there have been quite a few days recently (during the "overcrowding") where I have made a reservation at noon (or even 6pm) on a Saturday to go same-day...it's just getting used to the system.

Do I think Disney was deceptive? Sometimes I did, but I don't think on purpose...do I think they were greedy and wanting people to pay $ before pass holders (and blocking the Dream Key)? Yes. Do I think they are starting to make adjustments? Yes...

Sadly, I am concerned they will do away with this program and not have APs at all (or extremely limited ones). Time will tell.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

i'm one of those APers at DLR... in October, I'll admit, it was horrible. However, Disney has since really worked to correct the issue and since end of October, early November, I've had no issues getting dates I want...they always have come available. Heck, there have been quite a few days recently (during the "overcrowding") where I have made a reservation at noon (or even 6pm) on a Saturday to go same-day...it's just getting used to the system.

Do I think Disney was deceptive? Sometimes I did, but I don't think on purpose...do I think they were greedy and wanting people to pay $ before pass holders (and blocking the Dream Key)? Yes. Do I think they are starting to make adjustments? Yes...

Sadly, I am concerned they will do away with this program and not have APs at all (or extremely limited ones). Time will tell.

This is the problem though, they’ve created a system that requires flexibility, that works great if you live nearby but it’s horrible for those of us who need to plan ahead for hotels, travel, etc.

Disney wanted to get rid of lower spending APs but they’ve created a system that only works for locals (the lowest spending APs), they’ve driving away their higher spending APs that stay at their hotels and eat all their meals on property.

 

[RollerCoaster]

My pass idea would be offered to residents only as I stated. I am sure with the old pass, residents visited more than 14 times a year.

Only available to residents? Where do you think the overwhelming majority of Disney pass holders reside? They certainly don't live in Texas, nor Arizona, nor Illinois. Most out-of-state guests buy single or multi-day tickets for their vacation. There are some exceptions, but they are a small minority, not the majority.

So you think by making it exclusive to residents and I assume you mean Southern California that this cuts down on demand?

The average pass use will make you fall over. It's not even double digit, but single digit. For every pass holder who uses their pass a lot there is someone who hardly goes. The folks who participate on forums like this go more than the average. People with the more expensive passes tend to use it more often. However, when it all averages out most pass holders don't go enough for it to average once a month.

 

[Disstevefan1]

i'm one of those APers at DLR... in October, I'll admit, it was horrible. However, Disney has since really worked to correct the issue and since end of October, early November, I've had no issues getting dates I want...they always have come available. Heck, there have been quite a few days recently (during the "overcrowding") where I have made a reservation at noon (or even 6pm) on a Saturday to go same-day...it's just getting used to the system.

Do I think Disney was deceptive? Sometimes I did, but I don't think on purpose...do I think they were greedy and wanting people to pay $ before pass holders (and blocking the Dream Key)? Yes. Do I think they are starting to make adjustments? Yes...

Sadly, I am concerned they will do away with this program and not have APs at all (or extremely limited ones). Time will tell.

I am pleasantly surprised that you can actually get into the park when you wanted to!!

I had heard that up to 75 percent of the visitors to DLR (were) the old APs and when they suddenly cancelled all of them, that was really, really bad and I did not think the new APs were going to work.

 

[el_super]

Sounds like Disneyland day tickets are so overpriced the only way to get enough people in the door is via a discount day program.

On some days that is true, but other days it really isn't. They've trying to maximize the revenue they can get on fixed capacity at the park. So if you figure a day at Disneyland is typically 60,000 people, and you realistically think you can sell 40,000 single-day-tickets, you have 20,000 people worth of capacity that you can still get revenue out of. Hence the discounting. If the capacity was going to go unused, it doesn't hurt to discount it. Something is better than nothing.

The APs have been so popular, that the demand on those days may now exceed the 20k you wanted to sell at the discounted rate. In the past their only real protection measure was to just blockout the whole day, and forfeit the extra 20k in order to keep the demand in check. Alternatively they could keep the days open for entry with the APs, and just prepare for the worst. The reservations though allow them to set the hard number of how many discounted APs they want to let in, and also adjust those numbers in advance based on single day ticket sales and advanced hotel bookings.

Generally, I hate the idea of trying to get more people into the park, but I understand where Disney is coming from here. Some people would never go if not for the discounting that the APs offer, and replicating the same revenue would probably mean increasing single day ticket prices if they APs were not available.

 

[Professortango1]

If I were to create an AP available for locals, designed to prevent abuse it would be the following:
14 anytime visits a year, no park pass reservations needed.
Priced at $1050, that’s works out to $75 a visit.
Free parking.
20 percent discount on food and merch.

This would truly prevent abuse of the AP and still give the locals a deal that many would go for.

Double that price and maybe. Remember, they are getting BOTH parks, that's a $200 value right there. And if you're adding free parking and the discounts, I'd say it would need to be about $2,500.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Double that price and maybe. Remember, they are getting BOTH parks, that's a $200 value right there. And if you're adding free parking and the discounts, I'd say it would need to be about $2,500.

The existing DLR AP with no blackouts (but requires park pass reservations) that you could go many, many more than 14 times was $1500 right?

 

[RollerCoaster]

The existing DLR AP with no blackouts (but requires park pass reservations) that you could go many, many more than 14 times was $1500 right?

Yes, $1399 and that's why these suggestions are utterly ridiculous.

A 5-day Adult park hopper in summer is only $88.00 per day. 14 days at $88 per day would only be $1,232. If you add parking @ $30/day the cost would be $1,652.

The person who said to double the price and then maybe you'd have a product worthy of putting before consumers- completely out of touch! That would be one way to really SCREW the fans.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Yes, $1399 and that's why these suggestions are utterly ridiculous.

A 5-day Adult park hopper in summer is only $88.00 per day. 14 days at $88 per day would only be $1,232. If you add parking @ $30/day the cost would be $1,652.

The person who said to double the price and then maybe you'd have a product worthy of putting before consumers- completely out of touch! That would be one way to really SCREW the fans.

The hypothetical exercise was to come up with an AP that had features:
1. No blackouts
2. No park pass reservations needed
3. Set the number of visits to a number per year (like 14) to try to stop the alleged overcrowding caused by APers.
4. Priced at some price that is perceived as a value.

 

[Jrb1979]

The hypothetical exercise was to come up with an AP that had features:
1. No blackouts
2. No park pass reservations needed
3. Set the number of visits to a number per year (like 14) to try to stop the alleged overcrowding caused by APers.
4. Priced at some price that is perceived as a value.

How is it alleged overcrowding when many have said there is too many AP holders.

 

[Disstevefan1]

How is it alleged overcrowding when many have said there is too many AP holders.

Trying again -
The hypothetical exercise was to come up with an AP that had features:
1. No blackouts
2. No park pass reservations needed
3. Set the number of visits to a number per year (like 14) to try to stop the confirmed overcrowding caused by too many APers.
4. Priced at some price that is perceived as a value.

 

[Jrb1979]

Trying again -
The hypothetical exercise was to come up with an AP that had features:
1. No blackouts
2. No park pass reservations needed
3. Set the number of visits to a number per year (like 14) to try to stop the confirmed overcrowding caused by too many APers.
4. Priced at some price that is perceived as a value.

I don't think there is a way to do that, mainly due your last point. Unless you make it that APs are only available to purchase at certain points of the year. Then they can control how many are purchased.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I don't think there is a way to do that, mainly due your last point. Unless you make it that APs are only available to purchase at certain points of the year. Then they can control how many are purchased.

My thinking is, sell the AP however they did historically. These hypothetical APs are limited to 14 visits within the 12 months from purchase.

This has got to lower the crowding that was previously caused by the old AP caused, unless we are saying the average old AP went to the park less than 14 times in a 12 month period?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

My thinking is, sell the AP however they did historically. These hypothetical APs are limited to 14 visits within the 12 months from purchase.

That’s not an AP. That’s a 14 day ticket with a 12 month expiration date.