Disneyland passholder lawsuit alleges Magic Key deceptively advertises no blockout dates - OCR

[shambolicdefending]

Eh... nothing is permanent. The current management may keep it around but there is new management just around the river bend.

I mean, philosophically, yes, nothing is permanent. But, from where I'm sitting, any hope or idea that the reservation system will go away in the foreseeable future isn't based in reality.

Every objective point of reference indicates that the company and shareholders are very happy with it, and that it will persist for a very, very long time. Essentially forever as far as most of us are concerned.

 

[shambolicdefending]

I 100 percent guarantee a WIN for Disney

Disney may not win. But they will never "lose" a case like this.

If it looks questionable, they'll negotiate a manageable settlement, get NDAs with the original plaintiffs, and tweak the fine print to keep from getting sued again.

Ultimately they'll still come out ahead.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney may not win. But they will never "lose" a case like this.

If it looks questionable, they'll negotiate a manageable settlement, get NDAs with the original plaintiffs, and tweak the fine print to keep from getting sued again.

Ultimately they'll still come out ahead.

Exactly, hence my 100 percent guarantee of a "win" for Disney.

Could you imagine the court rules against Disney, there is no money award but Disney must change its AP products.
A change Disney already had in the works.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney may not win. But they will never "lose" a case like this.

If it looks questionable, they'll negotiate a manageable settlement, get NDAs with the original plaintiffs, and tweak the fine print to keep from getting sued again.

Ultimately they'll still come out ahead.

Nope - because it will be just be open season for others. They won’t be able to bury it like that. They either have to win outright or press for agreeable modifications.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Every objective point of reference indicates that the company and shareholders are very happy with it, and that it will persist for a very, very long time. Essentially forever as far as most of us are concerned.

I disagree. The shareholders don’t care. They could spin it the other way if they wanted “we just reintroduced annual passes and we are seeing unprecedented demand! Look at how much money we made from the passholders!”

I can’t imagine Chapek will remain for a “very, very long time”

 

[shambolicdefending]

Nope - because it will be just be open season for others. They won’t be able to bury it like that. They either have to win outright or press for agreeable modifications.

This is more or less what I was saying when I said they'd manage a settlement.

I disagree. The shareholders don’t care. They could spin it the other way if they wanted “we just reintroduced annual passes and we are seeing unprecedented demand! Look at how much money we made from the passholders!”

I can’t imagine Chapek will remain for a “very, very long time”

This is directly contradicted by everything that came out of Disney's latest financial reports.

 

[flynnibus]

This is more or less what I was saying when I said they'd manage a settlement.

You said they’d nda people and change the fine print. By modifications i mean actual changes.

The crappy situation disney is in here is this is basically a consumer protection area… meaning it is going to err to protecting the stupid — not just straight contract interpretation.

 

[shambolicdefending]

You said they’d nda people and change the fine print. By modifications i mean actual changes.

The crappy situation disney is in here is this is basically a consumer protection area… meaning it is going to err to protecting the stupid — not just straight contract interpretation.

Of course they'll NDA people. Why wouldn't they if they do anything other than refund the plaintiffs?

What do you suspect they'd modify outside of the fine print?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

This is directly contradicted by everything that came out of Disney's latest financial reports.

What do you mean? Are shareholders quoted as saying they love the reservations?

 

[mickEblu]

So should I be expecting $2700 later this year from Disney?

Or is this one of those class action lawsuits where all get $14 back?

 

[shambolicdefending]

What do you mean? Are shareholders quoted as saying they love the reservations?

The impact of the parks on EPS was very solid. Revenue per guest took a huge jump.

The new Magic Key system wasn't the only driver of that, obviously, but it's almost impossible to conclude that it's not a key part based on the numbers we know.

But, what you or I say doesn't matter. Time will tell who's right. I'm convinced anyone hoping for an end to reservations is naively grasping. But, if I'm wrong we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Disney fans are Addicts. The vast majority of them will renew. They'll certainly lose some, but Disney probably doesn't mind. They already had to stop selling the top 2 passes because they felt those were oversold.

There is ZERO chance they eliminate the Reservation system. That is permanently here to stay.

A year ago I would have agreed completely with your top comment, now I’m not so sure, we are Disney addicts, and we won’t be renewing, that’s something I never thought I’d say. We would have happily paid double what APs cost because we saw value, we don’t see value anymore. We may be the minority but judging by the amount of complaints we certainly aren’t alone. The question is do “we” make up 5% of APs or 25%.

A couple years ago nearly everyone here would have guaranteed, absolutely zero chance, that Magical Express would ever be eliminated. A service that has been praised by management for a decade as instrumental in encouraging guests to stay on property and encouraging them to never leave the bubble, they’d be insane to remove it, but it’s gone.

Reservations haven’t even been around a year, they have no idea how they will affect renewals, they also have no idea how the court case will go… it’s way to early to be making any long term predictions, Chapek loves them but that could quickly change if attendance dips.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Revenue per guest took a huge jump.

Because of reservations? No. That’s just how they are spinning it to justify the decision. Coming out of a pandemic the revenue per guest was certainly going to jump! I would argue the revenue per guest would have gone up the same amount if the parks were open as usual with proper staffing. Meaning more revenue.

A year ago I would have agreed completely with your top comment, now I’m not so sure, we are Disney addicts, and we won’t be renewing, that’s something I never thought I’d say.

Same. I was a passholder from 2004 till 2020. Never throught I wouldn’t be.

 

[Disney Irish]

A year ago I would have agreed completely with your top comment, now I’m not so sure, we are Disney addicts, and we won’t be renewing, that’s something I never thought I’d say. We would have happily paid double what APs cost because we saw value, we don’t see value anymore. We may be the minority but judging by the amount of complaints we certainly aren’t alone. The question is do “we” make up 5% of APs or 25%.

A couple years ago nearly everyone here would have guaranteed, absolutely zero chance, that Magical Express would ever be eliminated. A service that has been praised by management for a decade as instrumental in encouraging guests to stay on property and encouraging them to never leave the bubble, they’d be insane to remove it, but it’s gone.

Reservations haven’t even been around a year, they have no idea how they will affect renewals, they also have no idea how the court case will go… it’s way to early to be making any long term predictions, Chapek loves them but that could quickly change if attendance dips.

Reservations existed almost a year before the pandemic, on the Flex AP, renewals were just about to start on them as the pandemic started if I remember the timeline correctly. So it was something that Disney was testing long before the Magic Keys even existed. And should have been an indication that Disney was always heading in this direction long before the pandemic required it. So this idea that this is somehow new and only has been around for less a year is false.

Also I have no doubt we'll see a huge renewal on Keys happen, its either that or everyone is going back to regular day tickets which still require a reservation anyways. So either way the reservation is a thing that will be required.

 

[flynnibus]

Reservations existed almost a year before the pandemic, on the Flex AP, renewals were just about to start on them as the pandemic started if I remember the timeline correctly. So it was something that Disney was testing long before the Magic Keys even existed. And should have been an indication that Disney was always heading in this direction long before the pandemic required it. So this idea that this is somehow new and only has been around for less a year is false.

False equivalence

Use of reservations on the flex pass - that by its very definition was a limited use pass - is not the same as using reservations for all ticket types… all the time… and using it to prioritize classes of admission

Nevermind the actual stop of sales on even high tier passes

 

[Disney Irish]

False equivalence

Use of reservations on the flex pass - that by its very definition was a limited use pass - is not the same as using reservations for all ticket types… all the time… and using it to prioritize classes of admission

Nevermind the actual stop of sales on even high tier passes

In case you forgot, we were talking about it even back then that the reservations on the Flex AP might be a precursor to Disney implementing the reservations on all APs, ie turning all APs into Flex type APs, so no its not a false equivalency.

 

[flynnibus]

In case you forgot, we were talking about it even back then that the reservations on the Flex AP might be a precursor to Disney implementing the reservations on all APs, ie turning all APs into Flex type APs, so no its not a false equivalency.

Speculation does not equate to "And should have been an indication that Disney was always heading in this direction"

 

[Disney Irish]

Speculation does not equate to "And should have been an indication that Disney was always heading in this direction"

Sorry but I disagree, we speculate on this site all the time and say things like “this indicates this” or “this is obviously an indication of x”.

So if you want me to rephrase because you don’t like it, fine. Our heavy speculation back when Flex APs were introduced with reservations gave some an indication that Disney was going in this direction long before Magic Keys were introduced.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

False equivalence

Use of reservations on the flex pass - that by its very definition was a limited use pass - is not the same as using reservations for all ticket types… all the time… and using it to prioritize classes of admission

Nevermind the actual stop of sales on even high tier passes

The flex was also $599 and only blocked out Christmas and New Years, the nearest Key is the Dream at $1400.

It shows they were testing the reservation concept but it’s a massive jump from a few thousand passes that were relatively cheap and very rarely saw dates sold out to hundreds of thousands of passes that are up to $1000 more expensive and are sold out up to 2 months in advance.

It’s possible 95% renew and it never goes away, I’d argue it’s just as likely that only 75% will renew and after losing 100,000+ keyholders they quickly make massive changes to the system to try to get those 100,000+ loyal guests back.

Either way it’ll probably be a renewal cycle or two before we know if it’s a sustainable model.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The flex was also $599 and only blocked out Christmas and New Years, the nearest Key is the Dream at $1400.

It shows they were testing the reservation concept but it’s a massive jump from a few thousand passes that were relatively cheap and very rarely saw dates sold out to hundreds of thousands of passes that are up to $1000 more expensive and are sold out up to 2 months in advance.

It’s possible 95% renew and it never goes away, I’d argue it’s just as likely that only 75% will renew and after losing 100,000+ keyholders they quickly make massive changes to the system try to get those 100,000+ loyal guests back.

Either way it’ll probably be 6-18 months before we know.

The bean counters run TWDC.

If they say APs do not bring in "enough" money per visit, they will continue to strip away the APs ability to visit.

I know APs SPEND MONEY every visit. The bean counters will determine if they "spend enough" on their visit.

As you say, time will tell.