Disneyland passholder lawsuit alleges Magic Key deceptively advertises no blockout dates - OCR

[Jrb1979]

Its a no win situation for Disney.

If they limit the amount of passes sold there are complaints that passes aren't available. If they raise the prices to control the amount of passes sold there are complaints that guests are being priced out. If they open up sales of passes there are complaints of too many passes being sold. If they add reservations there are complaints that passes can't get the days they want because the reservation might be gone. If they take away reservations there are complaints that there is no restrictions on the amount of passes allowed in the park which causes overcrowding. If they do away with the passes all together there are complaints that there are no options for frequent guests.

Basically no matter what there is going to be a complaint by some group over any decision that Disney makes. They are damned it they do, damned if they don't.

I agree with you there. At the same time they knew they had a problem with too many AP holders. If I was Knotts I would do a deal for former Disney pass holders.

 

[shambolicdefending]

From an outsider Disney created this problem. They obviously didn't price passes high enough to price more people out. I thought when they cancelled all the APs it was cause they had too many AP holders. From the sounds of it they never solved that problem. They really needed to price people out. They failed to do it.

It will be very difficult to price a lot of people out as long as they are willing to finance the passes for free.

 

[el_super]

THE REASON FOR THE PARK PASS RESERVATION IS TO KEEP STAFFING TO THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM TO SAVE COSTS!

But why bother with the reservations if they could have just cut staffing and still let the same number of people in?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Its a no win situation for Disney.

If they limit the amount of passes sold there are complaints that passes aren't available. If they raise the prices to control the amount of passes sold there are complaints that guests are being priced out. If they open up sales of passes there are complaints of too many passes being sold. If they add reservations there are complaints that passes can't get the days they want because the reservation might be gone. If they take away reservations there are complaints that there is no restrictions on the amount of passes allowed in the park which causes overcrowding. If they do away with the passes all together there are complaints that there are no options for frequent guests.

Basically no matter what there is going to be a complaint by some group over any decision that Disney makes. They are damned it they do, damned if they don't.

Everyone loved the old AP system, sure we all complained when the prices rose but we all loved the system itself. Now we’ve got a system that’s just as expensive but is crap.

Just bring back the old system, well continue to complain once a year when the price increases but we’ll also quickly forget because it’s a great system that works and is worth the price.

If it’s not broken why fix it?

We won’t be rebuying/renewing our dream keys if given the chance. It’s not worth the price, our old AP was worth every penny.

 

[Disstevefan1]

But why bother with the reservations if they could have just cut staffing and still let the same number of people in?

I guess the bean counters must know the most profitable cast member to guest ratio and want to keep the ratio.

I guess sure, they could simply cut staff and let everyone in, and we know TWDC does not care about the guest experience, but I guess even TWDC wouldn't do that as it would be even more chaotic in the parks than they already are..

Besides, this is really about TWDC happily taking the money for the APs but really not wanting APers in the park.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Everyone loved the old AP system, sure we all complained when the prices rose but we all loved the system itself. Now we’ve got a system that’s just as expensive but is crap.

Just bring back the old system, well continue to complain once a year when the price increases but we’ll also quickly forget because it’s a great system that works and is worth the price.

If it’s not broken why fix it?

We won’t be rebuying/renewing our dream keys if given the chance. It’s not worth the price, our old AP was worth every penny.

We had friends come into town and we all went to our local Chinese buffet. Of course it's all you can eat and a huge selection at a low price. Now whenever we see them they say they are now ruined for anyplace else they go to eat because they always compare it to our Chinese buffet.

The old APs for Both DLR and WDW was our Chinese buffet of APs. We are now ruined for all APs going forward.

 

[Jrb1979]

Everyone loved the old AP system, sure we all complained when the prices rose but we all loved the system itself. Now we’ve got a system that’s just as expensive but is crap.

Just bring back the old system, well continue to complain once a year when the price increases but we’ll also quickly forget because it’s a great system that works and is worth the price.

If it’s not broken why fix it?

We won’t be rebuying/renewing our dream keys if given the chance. It’s not worth the price, our old AP was worth every penny.

Sure the AP holders loved it but Disney and many other people didn't. The biggest complaint has always been the parks are too crowded with AP holders.

 

[Disney Irish]

Everyone loved the old AP system, sure we all complained when the prices rose but we all loved the system itself. Now we’ve got a system that’s just as expensive but is crap.

Just bring back the old system, well continue to complain once a year when the price increases but we’ll also quickly forget because it’s a great system that works and is worth the price.

If it’s not broken why fix it?

We won’t be rebuying/renewing our dream keys if given the chance. It’s not worth the price, our old AP was worth every penny.

If you loved the old system, cool. If you won’t be renewing because its not worth the price due to this system not being like the old system, cool. If this means you'll never buy another ticket for DLR or any other Disney Park, cool. That is your right.

However the issue is the old system was not sustainable and it actually was broken. Fan sites just like this one had thousands of pages of complaints not only due to price increases, but also due to overcrowding because the old system allowed too many APs in the gates without any real control.

Disney had started down the reservation path pre-pandemic with the Flex AP, so the writing was already on the wall that this was gonna happen with all APs eventually. Its probably time for most former APs to come to terms with the fact that the old system is never coming back, no matter what happens with this lawsuit.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Sure the AP holders loved it but Disney and many other people didn't. The biggest complaint has always been the parks are too crowded with AP holders.

If I were to create an AP available for locals, designed to prevent abuse it would be the following:
14 anytime visits a year, no park pass reservations needed.
Priced at $1050, that’s works out to $75 a visit.
Free parking.
20 percent discount on food and merch.

This would truly prevent abuse of the AP and still give the locals a deal that many would go for.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

However the issue is the old system was not sustainable and it actually was broken. Fan sites just like this one had thousands of pages of complaints not only due to price increases, but also due to overcrowding because the old system allowed too many APs in the gates without any real control.

The irony being the key system has made the parks more crowded than it was under the AP system because it’s created new demand.

It used to be Mon-Wed were quiet, Thu & Fri were busy, and Sat & Sun were crazy. Now it’s crazy 7 days a week because people are so worried they won’t get a reservation they grab one early and go whenever they can, whether they planned to go or not.

Good for Disney, bad for the guests. For those of us who can’t go midweek it’s just made it impossible to go.

We’ll still go next year, it’ll just be once or twice and using the always available day tickets rather than fighting for the extremely limited key reservations.

If I had to guess most locals are going more often now under the key system than they did under the AP system because it’s created a scarcity demand and you’re punished if you don’t show up.

They’ve taken their “limited quantity” merchandise approach that creates massive demand and applied it to tickets now also.

 

[CastAStone]

The irony being the key system has made the parks more crowded than it was under the AP system because it’s created new demand.

It used to be Mon-Wed were quiet, Thu & Fri we’re busy, and Sat & Sun we’re crazy. Now it’s crazy 7 days a week because people are so worried they won’t get a reservation they grab one early and go whenever they can, whether they planned to go or not.

Good for Disney, bad for the guests. For those of us who can’t go midweek it’s just made it impossible to go.

We’ll still go next year, it’ll just be once or twice and using the always available day tickets rather than fighting for the extremely limited key reservations.

If I had to guess most locals are going more often now under the key system than they did under the AP system because it’s created a scarcity demand and you’re punished if you don’t show up.

Monday hasn’t been quiet in years. With fridays often blacked out for minor passes, Monday has been the weekend adjacent AP visit day of choice for a while now. Hell I’ve heard people on this very board suggest Monday has the worst wait times of the entire week on average.

But yes, the way you do the passes and block outs will have a massive impact on when the parks are busy.

 

[RollerCoaster]

I agree with you there. At the same time they knew they had a problem with too many AP holders. If I was Knotts I would do a deal for former Disney pass holders.

Knott's doesn't need to offer any deal to sell passes. The park is doing very well on its own. They've also raised prices significantly recently.

 

[celluloid]

It is almost as if Disneyland has one great park and one finally good park that has struggled and that has rarely added capacity.

 

[RollerCoaster]

If I were to create an AP available for locals, designed to prevent abuse it would be the following:
14 anytime visits a year, no park pass reservations needed.
Priced at $1050, that’s works out to $75 a visit.
Free parking.
20 percent discount on food and merch.

This would truly prevent abuse of the AP and still give the locals a deal that many would go for.

The price point is far too low, offers more days than most historically visit, and there is no reason to include discounts for food and merchandise. You can't give away free parking either.

How many park visits do you think the average passholder makes in a given year?

 

[Jrb1979]

Knott's doesn't need to offer any deal to sell passes. The park is doing very well on its own. They've also raised prices significantly recently.

While true they don't block out their pass holders.

 

[RollerCoaster]

While true they don't block out their pass holders.

I don't follow your logic. However, yet another reason why they don't need to offer former Disney pass holders a deal.

I think there is a flawed perception that former Disney AP holders are looking to have a replacement pass to any theme park. Many of these former pass holders had a pass to Disneyland because they love Disney, not because they love theme parks. In that case they aren't interested in Knott's as an alternative.

Knott's is a great theme park, but it is not Disneyland.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't follow your logic. However, yet another reason why they don't need to offer former Disney pass holders a deal.

I think there is a flawed perception that former Disney AP holders are looking to have a replacement pass to any theme park. Many of these former pass holders had a pass to Disneyland because they love Disney, not because they love theme parks. In that case they aren't interested in Knott's as an alternative.

Knott's is a great theme park, but it is not Disneyland.

I hear that response a lot. TBH I'm surprised by it or maybe I'm unique that way. I've never been some one to fall in love with a brand. For theme parks/amusement parks it's the rides that draw me not what IP is attached.

 

[flynnibus]

I hear that response a lot. TBH I'm surprised by it or maybe I'm unique that way. I've never been some one to fall in love with a brand. For theme parks/amusement parks it's the rides that draw me not what IP is attached.

Well they don’t call it a ‘theme park lifestyle’ - it’s a Disney Lifestyle.

The demographic is much bigger than your individual takes

 

[Disstevefan1]

The price point is far too low, offers more days than most historically visit, and there is no reason to include discounts for food and merchandise. You can't give away free parking either.

How many park visits do you think the average passholder makes in a given year?

My pass idea would be offered to residents only as I stated. I am sure with the old pass, residents visited more than 14 times a year.

 

[el_super]

If I were to create an AP available for locals, designed to prevent abuse it would be the following:
14 anytime visits a year, no park pass reservations needed.

But how would you prevent them from all going on Saturday?

Besides, this is really about TWDC happily taking the money for the APs but really not wanting APers in the park.

Of course they want APs in the park. Having the extra revenue on days when the ticket sales are slow, is a win-win for everyone. People get cheap admission to the park, and Disney gets to sell overpriced churros to the masses.

What doesn't work is when your discounting program to bring in extra people on slow says, starts dictating when and where your slow days will be. When things shifted, and Saturday and Sunday became the slowest days of the week, they knew they had a problem. When Cast Members were forced to park at Angel Stadium on the Monday in August that the So Cal APs were unblocked, is when they realized they had a problem. When the regular ticketed tourists started complaining about how crowded the park was, and threatening to go less, while Disney chased the discounted admissions, was when they had a problem.

They've used blockout dates to try and force the market at large, to change their habits and visitation strategy, and from introducing the blockout dates in the 90s, adding AP tiers, fiddling with park hopping and all the way up to the reservations, they have failed to control it. Like Frankenstein's monster, the AP program is still out of control. Removing the reservations would be disastrous to the system.

My guess is, after this lawsuit, they will slowly start to eliminate the concept of the blockout date, and work to make the reservation system clearer and more fair. But the reservations aren't going away.