News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Lilofan]

I’ve enjoyed the discussion around RCID and the pitfalls of the current plan including some geeking out on municipal bonds and 1st amendment rights and dare I say I’ve learned a few things along the way. I still think the most likely outcome is a compromise that keeps RCID or a version of RCID in place long term. I guess we will need to wait and see. I’m going to take a break from the thread for a while so if you respond to one of my previous posts and I don’t respond back that is why. Be kind and see ya all at the parks or at least those of you who are still going

Hopefully parts of RCID stay and perhaps those staff members are not the ones going to be laid off if that is the case.

 

[Lilofan]

I’ve enjoyed the discussion around RCID and the pitfalls of the current plan including some geeking out on municipal bonds and 1st amendment rights and dare I say I’ve learned a few things along the way. I still think the most likely outcome is a compromise that keeps RCID or a version of RCID in place long term. I guess we will need to wait and see. I’m going to take a break from the thread for a while so if you respond to one of my previous posts and I don’t respond back that is why. Be kind and see ya all at the parks or at least those of you who are still going

I enjoyed your posts especially about the NBA players in the WDW bubble. Seems like they had ways to escape their boredom and dealing with the strict confines of the bubble.

 

[JohnD]

Getting back to the topic at hand, you may have noticed I posted links from 4/20 and 4/21 of what occurred on the House floor.

One topic I found interesting is the $1.1 million bond debt. I don’t claim to know what is right or what is wrong. Naturally, that is a topic of concern. When asked, Rep. Fine said that if the RCID were dissolved the local governments — both Orange and Osceola County and, yes, the cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista would develop their own taxing authorities to collect the taxes from Disney instead of the RCID. That was his answer. Discuss.

 

[UNCgolf]

Getting back to the topic at hand, you may have noticed I posted links from 4/20 and 4/21 of what occurred on the House floor.

One topic I found interesting is the $1.1 million bond debt. I don’t claim to know what is right or what is wrong. Naturally, that is a topic of concern. When asked, Rep. Fine said that if the RCID were dissolved the local governments — both Orange and Osceola County and, yes, the cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista would develop their own taxing authorities to collect the taxes from Disney instead of the RCID. That was his answer. Discuss.

I'm not sure it's feasible (or potentially even legal) for them to collect taxes solely from Disney to service that debt. It would likely have to be passed on to all taxpayers, or to some kind of special tax that was levied on consumers/tourists.

I can't see any way they could force Disney itself to singlehandedly pay for that debt if RCID is dissolved.

 

[JohnD]

I'm not sure it's feasible (or potentially even legal) for them to collect taxes solely from Disney to service that debt. It would likely have to be passed on to all taxpayers, or to some kind of special tax that was levied on consumers/tourists.

I can't see any way they could force Disney itself to singlehandedly pay for that debt if RCID is dissolved.

Okay, I’ll bite. If it’s not legal for the counties to collect taxes from Disney, how was it legal for Disney to essentially collect taxes from itself via the RCID?

 

[UNCgolf]

Okay, I’ll bite. If it’s not legal for the counties to collect taxes from Disney, how was it legal for Disney to essentially collect taxes from itself via the RCID?

It didn't -- the RCID had more taxpayers than just Disney. Disney was by far the largest taxpayer because they held by far the most land/assets in RCID, but some of the money did come from other places.

The counties would collect tax from Disney (as they do now), but I don't see how they could levy a special tax solely on Disney. It's possible there is some mechanism to do so, but it seems unlikely.

 

[JohnD]

It didn't -- the RCID had more taxpayers than just Disney. Disney was by far the largest taxpayer because they held by far the most land/assets in RCID, but some of the money did come from other places.

The counties would collect tax from Disney (as they do now), but I don't see how they could levy a special tax solely on Disney. It's possible there is some mechanism to do so, but it seems unlikely.

Okay sure. The only other taxpayers would have been the Disney-installed residents totaling maybe 40, right? Who else were taxpayers in the RCID other than Disney and them? As for collecting the taxes, Rep. Fine said the local govts could develop an MSTU (Municipal Services Taxing Unit). Not saying he’s right. Just repeating the argument he expressed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Getting back to the topic at hand, you may have noticed I posted links from 4/20 and 4/21 of what occurred on the House floor.

One topic I found interesting is the $1.1 million bond debt. I don’t claim to know what is right or what is wrong. Naturally, that is a topic of concern. When asked, Rep. Fine said that if the RCID were dissolved the local governments — both Orange and Osceola County and, yes, the cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista would develop their own taxing authorities to collect the taxes from Disney instead of the RCID. That was his answer. Discuss.

This has been discussed. The law currently calls for the district assets and liabilities to pass to the pre-existing local government. The Reedy Creek Drainage District predates the creation of the cities which is why it is assumed that these assets and liabilities would pas to the counties. The counties are currently limited by state law to only being able to create taxing districts in unincorporated land, but Walt Disney World is in incorporated Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista. Counties and cities are also limited by how much they can tax and must tax equally. The District has the authority to tax at higher rates than the cities or counties.

There is also a whole issue of how the assets and liabilities would be divided between the counties.

Okay, I’ll bite. If it’s not legal for the counties to collect taxes from Disney, how was it legal for Disney to essentially collect taxes from itself via the RCID?

Reedy Creek Improvement District levies property taxes. Disney is overwhelmingly the largest landowner but not the sole land owner within the District. The District taxes are a separate tax.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Okay sure. The only other taxpayers would have been the Disney-installed residents totaling maybe 40, right? Who else were taxpayers in the RCID other than Disney and them? As for collecting the taxes, Rep. Fine said the local govts could develop an MSTU (Municipal Services Taxing Unit). Not saying he’s right. Just repeating the argument he expressed.

No, other companies like Four Seasons and Target own property in the District. A whole page of different property owners was posted early in the thread.

Counties can only create an MSTU in unincorporated portions of the county. Even if they could, there are limits to how much the counties can tax and the land in Orange County is in significantly greater quantities and more valuable than the land in Osceola County.

 

[UNCgolf]

Okay sure. The only other taxpayers would have been the Disney-installed residents totaling maybe 40, right? Who else were taxpayers in the RCID other than Disney and them? As for collecting the taxes, Rep. Fine said the local govts could develop an MSTU (Municipal Services Taxing Unit). Not saying he’s right. Just repeating the argument he expressed.

I'm not sure who they all are, but I believe lessees pay some (i.e. some of the non-Disney hotels and companies at Disney Springs) in addition to non-Disney property owners.

 

[JohnD]

This has been discussed. The law currently calls for the district assets and liabilities to pass to the pre-existing local government. The Reedy Creek Drainage District predates the creation of the cities which is why it is assumed that these assets and liabilities would pas to the counties. The counties are currently limited by state law to only being able to create taxing districts in unincorporated land, but Walt Disney World is in incorporated Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista. Counties and cities are also limited by how much they can tax and must tax equally. The District has the authority to tax at higher rates than the cities or counties.

There is also a whole issue of how the assets and liabilities would be divided between the counties.


Reedy Creek Improvement District levies property taxes. Disney is overwhelmingly the largest landowner but not the sole land owner within the District. The District taxes are a separate tax.

I’m sure it has been discussed but I literally watched the footage from The Florida Channel today. Thanks for the feedback. That may be the purpose of the “Lake Buena Viata Special District” bill being developed by the Governor’s office with gubernatorial appointees naturally and ripe for debate.

 

[Vacationeer]

Getting back to the topic at hand, you may have noticed I posted links from 4/20 and 4/21 of what occurred on the House floor.

One topic I found interesting is the $1.1 million bond debt. I don’t claim to know what is right or what is wrong. Naturally, that is a topic of concern. When asked, Rep. Fine said that if the RCID were dissolved the local governments — both Orange and Osceola County and, yes, the cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista would develop their own taxing authorities to collect the taxes from Disney instead of the RCID. That was his answer. Discuss.

Billion… no?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’m sure it has been discussed but I literally watched the footage from The Florida Channel today. Thanks for the feedback. That may be the purpose of the “Lake Buena Viata Special District” bill being developed by the Governor’s office with gubernatorial appointees naturally and ripe for debate.

I don’t believe this has been substantiated much less detailed. Even then, it’s a plan that runs into issues regarding home rule, consent of the governed and whatever is supposed to happen with these extra taxes Disney will supposedly pay. The whole purpose is to prevent Disney from developing the property as desired, which gets back to the issue of the pledge to not impair the District’s work.

 

[Orange is the new Red]

I posted this earlier in the thread:

https://news.yahoo.com/disney-world-texas-houston-area-010256991.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall[/URL

http://

I believe the next play would be to move offshore. The Bahamians would probably welcome them with open arms.

They aren’t moving anywhere for a lot of reasons. It would be more likely although a stretch that they sell the parks division if it got to that point.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Spoke with a few people today at length about this. Internally, the WDW leadership's view is aligned with what most of you have been saying here. Their view is the worst case scenario is a massive tax break and a headache when filing for permits. And in light of the fact that Governor DeSantis cannot afford to have that happen, they believe the outcome is a district that's almost exactly like what's there today.

 

[AEfx]

My suspicion is the vast majority of people, Republicans, Democrats, and independents, don't care what Disney says or does in regards to politics. It's a very tiny minority that is freaking out over this.

Well, yes, but unfortunately, the two opposing ends of the spectrum demand that everyone take a stance on everything.

One side flipped out when Disney didn't oppose this, then the other side flipped out when Disney did.

And both think they are the aggrieved party.

 

[Lilofan]

Well, yes, but unfortunately, the two opposing ends of the spectrum demand that everyone take a stance on everything.

One side flipped out when Disney didn't oppose this, then the other side flipped out when Disney did.

And both think they are the aggrieved party.

If one thing it will energize a certain base like never before among some things that are being talked about.

 

[JohnD]

I don’t believe this has been substantiated much less detailed. Even then, it’s a plan that runs into issues regarding home rule, consent of the governed and whatever is supposed to happen with these extra taxes Disney will supposedly pay. The whole purpose is to prevent Disney from developing the property as desired, which gets back to the issue of the pledge to not impair the District’s work.

Like I said, ripe for debate. I guess we'll just stay tuned.

 

[el_super]

Spoke with a few people today at length about this. Internally, the WDW leadership's view is aligned with what most of you have been saying here. Their view is the worst case scenario is a massive tax break and a headache when filing for permits. And in light of the fact that Governor DeSantis cannot afford to have that happen, they believe the outcome is a district that's almost exactly like what's there today.

Yeah but which side ends up paying to swap out all the logos?

If Disney gets their way, maybe they will name the new district "Lake Buena Vista: The Improvement Experience!"

 

[GoofGoof]

Like I said, ripe for debate. I guess we'll just stay tuned.

Good to be back on topic.

Here‘s the issue with the Governor’s plan. Disney is already paying a full share of taxes to Orange and Osceola Counties just like any other taxpayer. RCID is a special tax district with Disney as the primary landowner. Disney agreed to the setup with the state when the original district was created. It benefited both sides. Now the plan is to dissolve the district and setup a new district controlled by the Governor that taxes Disney but potentially provides them nothing. Why would Disney or the other landowners agree to do this? Makes no sense. In an extreme example let’s say the majority of your town or even your neighborhood oppose the governor publicly (maybe you all have lawn signs favoring the opponent). Should he have the power to just create a special tax district over your neighborhood where he adds a tax you have to pay that’s in addition to the real estate taxes you already pay and then he appoints people to oversee the way the money is spent but you and your neighbors (the landowners) have no say. That’s basically what is being suggested here.

I know the goal is to punish Disney and make them pay more but that’s a really dangerous precedent to set.