News Zootopia and Moana Blue Sky concepts for Disney's Animal Kingdom

[Bocabear]

Weren’t the layoffs and cancellations of projects like the Play pavillon to fund the retheme?

Not surprised to hear THAT. And if it’ll only be fixed by Iger and D’Amaro leaving, it’s probably gonna be in this dark period for a while. Even the 2000s Eisner era was better than this. I’m terrified by what they’re gonna do to the parks. What’s next, a Tangled retheme of Peter Pan’s Flight? That Inside Out retheme of Journey Into Imagination that Iger really wants to do?

If they built a brand new longer better version of Peter Pan, and then changed the old Peter Pan's Flight into a Tangled ride I would be fine with that...Though the PPF footprint is pretty small by today's attractions standards. If Small World became the new Peter Pan and they built a new Small World in EPCOT... If they built a new Peter Pan in the Fantasyland Circus tent meet and greet area and replaced the splash pad with a full scale Hook's Pirate ship and mermaid lagoon... A Neverland mini-land....Then I would be happy with a Tangled themed ride in the old PPF building...things that would never happen but would make sense....

 

[BlakeW39]

I just hate to be the bearer of bad news…

But seriously, I wish I had happier things to speak about. The company is still in a dark period and I think it will take the removal of both Bob Iger and Josh D’Amaro to fix.

Can you elaborate? When you say it will take the removal of Iger and D'Amaro to fix TWDC's current issues, what issues do you refer to? Rethemes of beloved attractions instead of actual additions... movie IP being plastered everywhere it doesn't fit... lack of care for the thematic direction of the parks and what makes them unique... those are a lot of issues... which ones would TWDC be able to fix with only Iger and D'Amaro ousted?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I just hate to be the bearer of bad news…

But seriously, I wish I had happier things to speak about. The company is still in a dark period and I think it will take the removal of both Bob Iger and Josh D’Amaro to fix.

Agreed. It's sad, but not surprising to see they still haven't learned anything about their parks or audience.

Of course some will be happy just to have something, anything, new at WDW. Its already been 6 years since AK got a new ride.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Can you elaborate? When you say it will take the removal of Iger and D'Amaro to fix TWDC's current issues, what issues do you refer to? Rethemes of beloved attractions instead of actual additions... movie IP being plastered everywhere it doesn't fit... lack of care for the thematic direction of the parks and what makes them unique... those are a lot of issues... which ones would TWDC be able to fix with only Iger and D'Amaro ousted?

Things like the Poly DVC tower or WDI designing giant, obvious warehouses for their rides won't change with the removal of Bob and Josh, but at the very least we might get someone who understands the basic appeal of theme parks and rides beyond their potential for cross promotion.

Eisner could look at something like Everest and see how it could appeal to park goers. Bob can't even do that. A "nondescript coaster themed to India or whatever" is all he sees. Not a major headliner that can sell itself, or a continuation of the company's successful line of mountain roller coasters.

 

[FettFan]

Jim Shull shared his take and feelings on bringing animated characters to DAK.
"While opposed to bringing in animated characters into Animal Kingdom, this sketch shows a how to divide Dino Land. Moana in a lush environment with a water ride, and a Coco redo of 'Dinosaur' with sort of Mexico/Central America vibe. #WDW #AnimalKingdom"
He went on to say:
"Approaching Moana in Animal Kingdom as the legend of the character based on culture of the people living in the region would sort of work. Treating Moana as a MK character in AK is a brand slap and wouldn’t work in the core DNA of AK. IMHO."
"Obvious but necessary notification that the artwork is personal speculation-not associated with TWDC."
View attachment 715718

I'm assuming the Carnotaurus finally catches us and our Time Rovers now take us to the Land of the Dead.
The old iguanadon-in-the-car effect will now be repurposed to show us all as Mexican skeletons, thanks to real-time facial mapping technology that will have elaborate Dia De Los Muertes face paintings applied to all of us.

 

[UNCgolf]

Disney seems hellbent on charging more for their parks and resorts while simultaneously spending money to downplay or remove what made them worth higher prices in the first place.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I just hate to be the bearer of bad news…

But seriously, I wish I had happier things to speak about. The company is still in a dark period and I think it will take the removal of both Bob Iger and Josh D’Amaro to fix.

For those of you that still have doubts, just listen into the earnings call from the other day. You have top brass in the company speaking proudly about how re-theming an existing attraction creates almost as much impact building something new from scratch. They want attractions that are being utilized to their full capacity. That’s the goal there. Dinosaur, as much as we may love it or not, isn’t getting enough people coming to the park to keep it at full capacity all the time, nor does it get good guest satisfaction scores. Couple that with the fact that it’s basically themed to a dead IP, it just is too obvious to not be on the chopping block. All of Dinoland suffers because the main attraction isn’t good anymore.

I do wish to convey that I don’t like this re-theme. Zootopia has no place in Animal Kingdom. That is a story about humans and human problems that are simply drawn as animals. This is not helping the park’s message at all. Moana is not much better, but at least it has to do with man’s (a Demi-God’s) relationship with nature and respecting that balance.

One last thing… the primary driver of this project is the replacement of Dinoland itself. Dinosaur being themed to Zootopia has been thought of on this project since the beginning, sadly. (Competing against an Indiana Jones overlay, but that was decided to not be helpful enough to create more family attractions for the park, which operations is demanding from any park expansion) The Moana attraction, although more grand in scale in my opinion, was secondary. (though now with a likely larger budget, stolen from Epcot’s redo no doubt) This does not mean that one particular attraction will open first. I actually expect the entire land to close at once, with the only remaining open path being available to get to the Nemo show and the bridge to Asia. The scope and scale of this project is massive and I’m not sure it could be accomplished piecemeal as some are suggesting.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong on this one. I would have preferred an Indiana Jones land, but unless Harrison Ford does something substantial with animals in this new film and it’s deemed appropriate for all ages, then it’s over.

I have no doubt you’re right. This company has proven that they are completely lost when it comes to the US Parks. They either don’t understand park capacity and the guest experience, or they do and they’re purposefully making it worse so that they can up charge us “fixes”.

It’s a great way to lose market share to the other guys. I know they’ve lost me.

 

[BlakeW39]

Disney seems hellbent on charging more for their parks and resorts while simultaneously spending money to downplay or remove what made them worth higher prices in the first place.

You said it... all Bob cares about is synergy. Movie IP. He does not care about the themes that tie a park together, and give it a singular mission or direction. He cares about what brands he can promote there....shoehorning IPs in the parks like he does ads on Disney+...

I have no doubt you’re right. This company has proven that they are completely lost when it comes to the US Parks. They either don’t understand park capacity and the guest experience, or they do and they’re purposefully making it worse so that they can up charge us “fixes”.

It’s a great way to lose market share to the other guys. I know they’ve lost me.

Thing is though... while I do enjoy Universal, Disney used to be different. The Universal parks don't really have underlying themes that unite them as a single creative thing. They're just collections of random lands and attractions. Disney used to not be like that. EPCOT had its own identity. Magic Kingdom. Animal Kingdom. Hollywood Studios. But Bob seems to want nothing more than to make Disney parks indistinguishable from Universal outside of the specific IPs they feature.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

You said it... all Bob cares about is synergy. Movie IP. He does not care about the themes that tie a park together, and give it a singular mission or direction. He cares about what brands he can promote there....shoehorning IPs in the parks like he does ads on Disney+...



Thing is though... while I do enjoy Universal, Disney used to be kind of a cut above the rest in a way. The Universal parks don't really have underlying themes that unite them as a single creative thing. They're just collections of random attractions and lands. Disney used to not be like that. But Bob seems to want nothing more.

My brothers used to joke that Islands of Adventure could be accurately called "Islands of Stuff We Bought," and it's even more true of that park now than it ever was before (with Poseidon's Fury closed).

Disney is totally following suit. DCA has become "Disney IP and Stuff We Bought Adventure Park." Epcot is "IPcot." DHS is now "Disney's Hodgepodge plus Stuff We Bought." Animal Kingdom is in danger of becoming "Animals (who are so human-like they could actually be in charge of a) Kingdom (plus an IP we bought)." Magic Kingdom still has thematic integrity for the most part, until there is a random Coco or Encanto land built.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

Good news is that that's incorrect*! I can re-post the quotes from John Lasseter later. It's late now.

Zootopia is about animals. They were anthropomophized, but I'm almost positive the Dinosaur-replacing attraction will focus on how their lives reflect real-world biomes.

You like It's Tough to Be a Bug? How about It's Tough to Be a Mammal (theme-wise, that is)?

* You can choose to ignore their animal nature, but I don't think that will help here.

Found the furry?

 

[Bocabear]

Zootopia is not about animals...it is animals playing the part of humans in a modern world urban setting...Which is not the same thing...the fact that they are animals is the punchline of a joke... Some people are like foxes, some people are like bunnies, some people are slow as sloths... But this does not feel like the right fit for a park that leans heavily on the natural world and conservation themes.
Now, Hollywood Studios...maybe.
If the train and conservation Station were redone to be the journey to this distant animal-run city and land...and it had all that separation from the main park...it could work... maybe. But I would rather them use those millions to create the Coco ride attached to Mexico...A Moana area or land, a Villains Lair behind the Haunted Mansion, Something replacing the Chester and Hester area...Fix the Yeti and add some new enhancements to Everest, Completely reimagine Kali River Rapids but this time make it good...

 

[RSoxNo1]

I agree with this 99% of the time, but I think the Jungle Cruise is a mediocre to bad attraction that's also mostly pointless when you can see real versions of those animals at Animal Kingdom. Obviously it was changed into a joke attraction, but it was originally intended to be realistic. I don't find the jokes entertaining, so it offers almost nothing to me.

Also (and probably more importantly), it sits on a huge plot of land that wouldn't need to be a one to one replacement; it could easily hold multiple attractions and a new restaurant (which Magic Kingdom desperately needs). You could fit two Haunted Mansion size attractions on the Jungle Cruise footprint with plenty of room left over for a restaurant or whatever else.

They're not going to remove it, though.

I think at one point the Jungle Cruise was on the chopping block. And while your opinion and my opinion of the attraction differ, I also think you'd probably agree that the Jungle Cruise isn't the biggest culprit when it comes to wasting space in the MK.

The other variable here is that WDW has the blessing of size to allow for epic things like Kilimanjaro Safaris and to a lesser extent Jungle Cruise, but at times they don't do a great job of future planning. Some examples from recent history:

• Cutting off access to the plot of land North of Anandapur/Asia in DAK
• Not allowing ease of access to additional land North of Fantasyland during New Fantasyland construction
• Not adjusting the train track in anticipation of Beyond Big Thunder during the two year closure
• Placement of TRON in front of a massive piece of real estate that is the Tomorrowland Speedway.

I've long been a proponent of relocating it's a small world as a means of accessing a big chunk of land and the removal / relocation of Tomorrowland Speedway should also be on the table well before Jungle Cruise's removal.

All that being said, I've long loved the idea of taking those larger scale / sprawling attractions and trying to make them multi-purpose areas. Jungle Cruise is/was ripe for this. A futuristic speedway would be ripe for this.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

They’ll have to pry Jungle Cruise from my cold dead hands if they ever think of removing it.

 

[BlakeW39]

Things like the Poly DVC tower or WDI designing giant, obvious warehouses for their rides won't change with the removal of Bob and Josh, but at the very least we might get someone who understands the basic appeal of theme parks and rides beyond their potential for cross promotion.

Eisner could look at something like Everest and see how it could appeal to park goers. Bob can't even do that. A "nondescript coaster themed to India or whatever" is all he sees. Not a major headliner that can sell itself, or a continuation of the company's successful line of mountain roller coasters.

I would love nothing more than an exec who understood the appeal of theme parks, and why we parks fans love them... but how much of a chance is there really that we get someone who quits the IP syngery bull****. I can't even imagine a modern Disney exec creating something like Everest. Or even fixing the ride for that matter. But I'll keep ny fingers crossed.

My brothers used to joke that Islands of Adventure could be accurately called "Islands of Stuff We Bought," and it's even more true of that park now than it ever was before (with Poseidon's Fury closed).

Disney is totally following suit. DCA has become "Disney IP and Stuff We Bought Adventure Park." Epcot is "IPcot." DHS is now "Disney's Hodgepodge plus Stuff We Bought." Animal Kingdom is in danger of becoming "Animals (who are so human-like they could actually be in charge of a) Kingdom (plus an IP we bought)." Magic Kingdom still has thematic integrity for the most part, until there is a random Coco or Encanto land built.

Lol, pretty much. The individual themes of the different parks are why I love Disney. I like Universal too don't get me wrong, but that thematic richness and pointed mission for all the Disney parks just gave them more value to me. But now TWDC apparenly wants to no longer be an industry leader, but rather a follower of trends set by their little brother Universal. Going from time honored themes and attractions to filling the parks with meaningless IP swill.

 

[RSoxNo1]

A couple of things.

1. Moana fits in EPCOT better than Mystic Manor fits in DAK.

2. Expedition Everest is accepted in DAK because it fits the themes of DAK perfectly.

3. Mystic Manor doesn't "feel like" it fits in DAK. At least, not in my opinion. It would water DAK down to just being a big Adventureland, which is a major fear of mine now that Rohde is gone. Just because Mystic Manor is 'adventurey' and takes place in a jungle doesn't mean it has any place in Animal Kingdom.



Now this I could get behind. If Mystic Manor is updated to being about a naturalist's manor that has all kinds of fossils, zoological specimens, and bizarre creatures... that would be awesome. But the version of Mystic Manor in Hong Kong includes historical artifacts and has nothing to do with animals or nature. Thus, it doesn't fit in DAK any more than Indy does.

I think if Henry Mystic was treated as more of a Harrison Hightower-esque villain it could work. I love the idea of a new conceit in the Mystic Manor style of a SEA member that's a naturalist and we have a similar story slightly more befitting of DAK.

That being said, thematic integrity is so often bent if the attraction is quality. While Mystic Manor would fit better in Adventureland, I don't think a direct clone is problematic for DAK either.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don’t know what Jim is on. There’s no chance of Coco going in on that site. Funding has already been allocated for the Dinoland re-development project. It is Zootopia. Moana is actually secondary. Not sure where all the other stuff is coming from, but I figured it was time I stopped by to chime in.

Dammit.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I’m sure the Dinosaur -> Zootopia retheme would lift the scenes and animatronics from the new Shanghai ride and retrofit everything into the Dinosaur space with a rethemed ride vehicle. Very unlikely it’s something original. Especially if they’re pushing that first.

While I vehemently disagree with Zootopia going into DAK, if it's a foregone conclusion I hope they use an entirely different ride system that doesn't have a 40 inch height requirement.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

While I vehemently disagree with Zootopia going into DAK, if it's a foregone conclusion I hope they use an entirely different ride system that doesn't have a 40 inch height requirement.

I don’t see them using a different ride system. It would be foolish to demo Dinosaur and not use the existing infrastructure.

 

[UNCgolf]

While I vehemently disagree with Zootopia going into DAK, if it's a foregone conclusion I hope they use an entirely different ride system that doesn't have a 40 inch height requirement.

Based on what @The Visionary Soul said, there seems little chance of this. Changing the ride system would be a much bigger project than simply retheming what exists.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I vehemently disagree with Zootopia going into DAK

Amended, because that's all that needs to be said. It has zero business in DAK. Period. End of story. End of discussion. Terrible, awful, horrible movie that, for reasons unknown to so many, some people love and think needs a theme park presence. Every time that dreck gets brought up as "needing a theme park presence", I say: