News Zootopia and Moana Blue Sky concepts for Disney's Animal Kingdom

[BlakeW39]

We seem to have agreed quite a bit to this point...but you're going somewhere I cannot follow. Getting rid of two Magic Kingdom staples like that. I can't do it. There are plenty of ways to add to Magic Kingdom without taking away two beloved attractions!

Hahahah well fair enough. I think I've become a little disillusioned with the "classics" since they closed Splash Mountain. For me, that was the ultimate Disney classic attraction. Not in its age but in its value and importance. A marvel of Walt Disney Imagineering. I suppose you are right in that there is no reason to take away attractions like POTC if one can just add elsewhere. On the other hand, I don't really think Jungle Cruise is a very good attraction. The AAs are very stiff and the show scenes aren't as immersive as those you can find at Disney's Animal Kingdom either on safari or on the walking trails. But I'm perfectly open to being convinced that there is a reason it should stay, beyond the need for capacity.

I don't know. While not having the restaurant is obviously a downgrade compared to DL, I've seen some relatively convincing arguments that the rest of the WDW attraction is at least equal to the DL version, if not superior (I believe @yensidtlaw1969 has laid this out before here, but I may be mixing up people). I know the Imagineers made some intentional changes when building the WDW version that they thought were improvements on Disneyland.

I'm not saying it's superior to the DL version. just that I'm not sure it's such a cut and dried argument that it's obviously inferior.

Interesting, well I await his response patiently. I will say I enjoy the queue of POTC at MK more than I do the one in DL. I think it's more immersive and I prefer the Adventureland setting, I think.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Not sure if these will change anyone's minds, but these are some initial thoughts I found on a quick search - they were in reference to a conversation about whether Shanghai's Pirates was better than WDW's:

WDW's Pirates is obviously the runt of the litter in terms of the classic Pirates attractions. It absolutely got the shorter end of the stick. But the elements it does include - the dramatic queue, the massive, detailed sets, the swaths of classic animatronics in their instantly-legible and genuinely funny vignettes - all live up to the gold standard. And of course the theme song is iconic. WDW's Pirates maintains a high-quality and consistent language throughout (poorly-revised Auction dialogue notwithstanding). The loss of the caverns is meaningful, but the meat of the ride is still there - it's worth noting WDW's Pirates has basically just as many Animatronics as DL, TDL, and DLP do.

I feel like people forget that the main course of Disneyland's Pirates is still very much on the menu here at WDW. We lose some of the tasty sides - The Blue Bayou, the additional drop, and the more elaborate Cavern sequence are missed, but once you're pulling up on the Wicked Wench the ride gets great and stays great. The Town and its scenes have always been the most spectacular part of the ride and the WDW ride cuts no corners on it. I think people forget that because of the (understandable) sour grapes about not getting the full version from DL. But it's not like what's there is actually bad in any way. There's no meaningful difference in quality between the scenes shared by DL and WDW, and those scenes are fantastic. There are reasons WDW's Pirates is fully considered a classic, and it's not because of nostalgia for Disneyland's (admittedly better) version.

 

[TP2000]

I agree with this 99% of the time, but I think the Jungle Cruise is a mediocre to bad attraction that's also mostly pointless when you can see real versions of those animals at Animal Kingdom. Obviously it was changed into a joke attraction, but it was originally intended to be realistic. I don't find the jokes entertaining, so it offers almost nothing to me.

Also (and probably more importantly), it sits on a huge plot of land that wouldn't need to be a one to one replacement; it could easily hold multiple attractions and a new restaurant (which Magic Kingdom desperately needs). You could fit two Haunted Mansion size attractions on the Jungle Cruise footprint with plenty of room left over for a restaurant or whatever else.

They're not going to remove it, though.

Magic Kingdom has dozens of acres of land for expansion without thinking hard. If TDO thought only half as hard as TDA about how to expand their park (by moving backstage infrastructure and office space away from the park, plus all the unused swampland around it) there would be several dozen more acres of easy land for Magic Kingdom Park expansion.

So, roughly 50 to 75 acres of unused land is just sitting there right now, waiting for park expansion.

Knowing that, here's a thought... keep the Jungle Cruise, and use all those dozens of other acres for the multiple new E, D and C Ticket attractions that Magic Kingdom has desperately needed for at least 30 years. And you still keep the Jungle Cruise.

 

[BlakeW39]

Not sure if these will change anyone's minds, but these are some initial thoughts I found on a quick search - they were in reference to a conversation about whether Shanghai's Pirates was better than WDW's:


I feel like people forget that the main course of Disneyland's Pirates is still very much on the menu here at WDW. We lose some of the tasty sides - The Blue Bayou, the additional drop, and the more elaborate Cavern sequence are missed, but once you're pulling up on the Wicked Wench the ride gets great and stays great. The Town and its scenes have always been the most spectacular part of the ride and the WDW ride cuts no corners on it. I think people forget that because of the (understandable) sour grapes about not getting the full version from DL. But it's not like what's there is actually bad in any way. There's no meaningful difference in quality between the scenes shared by DL and WDW, and those scenes are fantastic. There are reasons WDW's Pirates is fully considered a classic, and it's not because of nostalgia for Disneyland's (admittedly better) version.

Oh well yeah I agree, and to be clear I still think WDW's POTC is a very good attraction. However, it still irks me that we got the short end of the stick and are stuck with an abjectly worse version of a ride that was intended for and still exists in Disneyland CA. I'd like MK to have its own versions of its own rides, not just inferior versions of the DL rides. That's because MK has the potential to be just as good as Disneyland, but it's not realizing that potential because it's stuck in Disneyland's shadow. BTMR and POTC are perfect examples of this. That said, if BTMR were plussed and Adventureland got another E-ticket that was just as good as Indy, I do think the MK would be on its way to distinguishing itself from its big brother.

 

[Brer Panther]

Magic Kingdom has dozens of acres of land for expansion without thinking hard. If TDO thought only half as hard as TDA about how to expand their park (by moving backstage infrastructure and office space away from the park, plus all the unused swampland around it) there would be several dozen more acres of easy land for Magic Kingdom Park expansion.

So, roughly 50 to 75 acres of unused land is just sitting there right now, waiting for park expansion.

View attachment 715476

Not to mention that Stitch's Great Escape building just sitting there empty.

 

[Bocabear]

Oh well yeah I agree, and to be clear I still think WDW's POTC is a very good attraction. However, it still irks me that we got the short end of the stick and are stuck with an abjectly worse version of a ride that was intended for and still exists in Disneyland CA. I'd like MK to have its own versions of its own rides, not just inferior versions of the DL rides. That's because MK has the potential to be just as good as Disneyland, but it's not realizing that potential because it's stuck in Disneyland's shadow. BTMR and POTC are perfect examples of this. That said, if BTMR were plussed and Adventureland got another E-ticket that was just as good as Indy, I do think the MK would be on its way to distinguishing itself from its big brother.

and no one mentions the Disneyland Paris version...Which has the restaurant and a much expanded list of show scenes...multiple drops and a huge fortress building. It is also beautifully seated behind a walk-through adventure Isle attraction with a full sized pirate ship and Skull Rock. While their "Blue Bayou" is not as beautiful as Disneyland's version, the ride certainly takes it a step further than the DL version...I am not sure if there would be any way of expanding our current version to equal the footprint of the DL version let alone the Paris version. I grew up on the East Coast and so this version of Pirates was the only one I ever knew until I was 30 and made my first trip to Disneyland....then I felt robbed...lol They were definitely hampered by budget when the Florida version was built, and while it is still a great ride, it is the cliff notes version for sure.

 

[aladdin2007]

the blue circle area here they were looking at for a new resort with park entrance, etc, so not even park expansion anymore if they go that route. how they would do this with the canal dont know but thats what was rumored. I hope they dont and it stays for park expansion areas only but they dont do anything by the book anymore.

 

[Bocabear]

much like the castle, Space Mountain, and Big Thunder can be seen outside the berm, it would be interesting to have a little of Adventureland peeking out of the berm as you approach the Magic Kingdom Monorail Station... Perhaps the spires of Mystic Manor? or a Volcano from a Moana addition to the backside of Adventureland...it would certainly be interesting to see them grow beyond the berms

 

[UNCgolf]

Magic Kingdom has dozens of acres of land for expansion without thinking hard. If TDO thought only half as hard as TDA about how to expand their park (by moving backstage infrastructure and office space away from the park, plus all the unused swampland around it) there would be several dozen more acres of easy land for Magic Kingdom Park expansion.

So, roughly 50 to 75 acres of unused land is just sitting there right now, waiting for park expansion.

View attachment 715476

Knowing that, here's a thought... keep the Jungle Cruise, and use all those dozens of other acres for the multiple new E, D and C Ticket attractions that Magic Kingdom has desperately needed for at least 30 years. And you still keep the Jungle Cruise.

The problem is that the Jungle Cruise sucks. It's not worth saving at WDW.

Sure, it eats some people, but two new E tickets and a restaurant there would draw eat more and (hopefully) they'd be attractions worth riding.

And yes, I realize plenty of people like it for some reason (and that Disney isn't going to remove it), but for me personally it's just a waste of space -- much like the Tomorrowland Speedway. If it wasn't so huge that wouldn't be a big deal, since obviously I don't personally need to enjoy every single attraction and anything that attracts people is a plus overall, but there's just so much that could be done with that gigantic plot.

 

[BlakeW39]

much like the castle, Space Mountain, and Big Thunder can be seen outside the berm, it would be interesting to have a little of Adventureland peeking out of the berm as you approach the Magic Kingdom Monorail Station... Perhaps the spires of Mystic Manor? or a Volcano from a Moana addition to the backside of Adventureland...it would certainly be interesting to see them grow beyond the berms

Yeah it would be nice to get either of those in Adventureland.

I'm just tired of MK being the runt of the castle parks. Without Splash that's only gotten worse. So I'd like to see some effort made to make it just as strong a park as DL, DLP, TDL, etc. And neither TRON nor 7DMT help that.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Jungle Cruise gets removed only after someone murders me while I stand in front of the excavators.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

or a Volcano from a Moana addition to the backside of Adventureland..

Fire Mountain! They've lost the "Magic Kingdom Mountain Range" marketing motto with the transformation of one of the peaks into a salt dome.

Also, we are way off the topic of Animal Kingdom blue sky concepts...

 

[Bocabear]

I just wonder why, with the creation of the Animal Kingdom and the safari, they did not double down on the adventure and thrill aspect of the Magic Kingdom Jungle Cruise and add exciting new settings and some state of the art changes...and not the monkeys...It would be fun to reimagine the ride in a more thrilling format...keeping some settings and adding some much needed excitement. A rapids section? An Earthquake in the temple? Some added animatronics and special effects? I get that there is a history now of the wisecracks, but what if they led into something better and truly surprising and amazing... I think Tokyo has added a night safari to theirs...so someone is thinking outside the box a bit. Hong Kong has water and flame effects...With an attraction eating up that much real estate, it would be nice to freshen it up, not remove it...

 

[BlakeW39]

Also, we are way off the topic of Animal Kingdom blue sky concepts...

Indeed. In conclusion lol, I don't think Mystic Manor fits in DAK unless Henry Mystic is changed from being a archaeologist to a naturalist, with the cultural relicts being changed to natural ones.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Indeed. In conclusion lol, I don't think Mystic Manor fits in DAK unless Henry Mystic is changed from being a archaeologist to a naturalist, with the cultural relicts being changed to natural ones.

Back in the day, Disney used to localize attractions to fit. So, Mystic Manor DAK could easily be Henry's naturalist brother or sister set in South America or a fantasy jungle - retooling many of the gags to be about interactions with animals or any number of stories.

But, that would take effort and not allow the cap ex to be shared like direct cloning does...

 

[Bocabear]

umm the natural relics are not magical, therefore the entire premise of the ride doesn't work...so...there is that. And the setting for Mystic Manor is an outpost in the jungle with an explorer and collector...
you can get mired in the missing conservation storyline, but the setting certainly feels like the park...
Adventure, Exploration, A Monkey, a little magic... It is not jarringly off course...Like Moana in the front of EPCOT is....
Mystic Manor feels like it could fit....
Which was the same justification for FEA... and quite frankly Expedition Everest and it's mythical yeti....There is no animal tie-in other than that, and we all accepted and love it....because it feels right in that park...

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

umm the natural relics are not magical, therefore the entire premise of the ride doesn't work...so...there is that. And the setting for Mystic Manor is an outpost in the jungle with an explorer and collector...
you can get mired in the missing conservation storyline, but the setting certainly feels like the park...
Adventure, Exploration, A Monkey, a little magic... It is not jarringly off course...Like Moana in the front of EPCOT is....
Mystic Manor feels like it could fit....
Which was the same justification for FEA... and quite frankly Expedition Everest and it's mythical yeti....There is no animal tie-in other than that, and we all accepted and love it....because it feels right in that park...

Expedition Everest was put in when mythical creatures were still part of the overall theme of Animal Kingdom. It was as authentically Asian as can be, but with a dash of Beastly Kingdom myth. I would say it more than feels right. It is a perfectly logical addition to Animal Kingdom.

FEA still doesn't feel right for me. It took an authentic (admittedly disappointing and lackluster) Norwegian attraction in World Showcase and turned it into an IP celebration ride.

 

[James Alucobond]

The yeti is a cryptid and fits no less than a dragon or unicorn, which were essentially cryptids of their time.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

umm the natural relics are not magical, therefore the entire premise of the ride doesn't work...so...there is that. And the setting for Mystic Manor is an outpost in the jungle with an explorer and collector...
you can get mired in the missing conservation storyline, but the setting certainly feels like the park...
Adventure, Exploration, A Monkey, a little magic... It is not jarringly off course...Like Moana in the front of EPCOT is....
Mystic Manor feels like it could fit....
Which was the same justification for FEA... and quite frankly Expedition Everest and it's mythical yeti....There is no animal tie-in other than that, and we all accepted and love it....because it feels right in that park...

I think Everest works because it is about interaction of humans with the animal world and the fringe of where the natural and human world exists. That touchpoint is what I understand to be the overarching theme of the park. The animals could be real, mytical or imagined - but it's that space where the two worlds first touch.

That's why a traditional zoo would feel very out of place at the park. The same way FEA in its current Fantasyland form doesn't fit into a pavilion showcasing the culture of a nation. The ride and the pavilion are attempting to tell two, incompatible stories.

For Mystic Manor, you raise some valid points. I actually wonder if the best use of the concept would be in a Beastly Kingdom setting. Where the magic brings relics of mytihcal beasts to life. It would be a new version of the attraction, no doubt. But, it could be a spiritual successor that meets more directly the ideals of DAK.

 

[UNCgolf]

I just wonder why, with the creation of the Animal Kingdom and the safari, they did not double down on the adventure and thrill aspect of the Magic Kingdom Jungle Cruise and add exciting new settings and some state of the art changes...and not the monkeys...It would be fun to reimagine the ride in a more thrilling format...keeping some settings and adding some much needed excitement. A rapids section? An Earthquake in the temple? Some added animatronics and special effects? I get that there is a history now of the wisecracks, but what if they led into something better and truly surprising and amazing... I think Tokyo has added a night safari to theirs...so someone is thinking outside the box a bit. Hong Kong has water and flame effects...With an attraction eating up that much real estate, it would be nice to freshen it up, not remove it...

I'd be okay with a massive overhaul that modernized it and added effects etc. so it wasn't just treated as a joke.