WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Disstevefan1]

And I also think many people still find value in it and enjoy it - even if the value is lower than in the past

We vacations lots of places but always seem to return to WDW as it still works the best for our family and has something for everyone

Now, in the past perhaps we felt we were paying $100 and got $200 worth of "value" and now maybe paying $140 and getting $175 in value - definitely a loss of value but still good return for us

If it gets to the point we feel we are paying $209 and into getting $150 in value we will stop going - and j am sure some people are already there.

But just because something isn't as good as the past doesn't mean I automatically is terrible to everyone

There is real, actual value that can we reflected in a spreadsheet and is objective.

There is also "the feeling of value" that is very subjective. Disney needs to hold on to these folks.

 

[Chi84]

There is real, actual value that can we reflected in a spreadsheet and is objective.

There is also "the feeling of value" that is very subjective. Disney needs to hold on to these folks.

What something is worth is objective. Value is subjective. When someone says something is "worth it to me" they are referring to their subjective determination of value.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

There is real, actual value that can we reflected in a spreadsheet and is objective.

There is also "the feeling of value" that is very subjective. Disney needs to hold on to these folks.

For sure and kinda what I was getting at ... At least for us we still have the "feeling of value" even if oin some areas not as strong a feeling.

If we lose that value feeling (whoooaa) then we will pause/stop going but definitely not there yet

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

For sure and kinda what I was getting at ... At least for us we still have the "feeling of value" even if oin some areas not as strong a feeling.

If we lose that value feeling (whoooaa) then we will pause/stop going but definitely not there yet

I think it’s a sliding scale also, back when we paid $700 for our no limitations AP the price to value ratio was “an amazing deal”, when our AP hit $1200 (with limits) it became a “break even” scenario, now that that same AP is $1400 it’s “not worth it” anymore (to us), we still see value in the once or twice a year out of pocket trip though. There may come a time when we don’t even find value in a yearly trip though, that’s when we’ll likely call it quits on Disney.

This is the danger of a company always trying to maximize returns and always trying to find the absolute max price people will pay for a product, push it a bit too far and the whole model collapses.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think it’s a sliding scale also, back when we paid $700 for our no limitations AP the price to value ratio was “an amazing deal”, when our AP hit $1200 (with limits) it became a “break even” scenario, now that that same AP is $1400 it’s “not worth it” anymore (to us)

Totally agree!

Its important to note. Disney (mostly Iger) HATES APs

 

[Jrb1979]

And I also think many people still find value in it and enjoy it - even if the value is lower than in the past

We vacations lots of places but always seem to return to WDW as it still works the best for our family and has something for everyone

Now, in the past perhaps we felt we were paying $100 and got $200 worth of "value" and now maybe paying $140 and getting $175 in value - definitely a loss of value but still good return for us

If it gets to the point we feel we are paying $209 and into getting $150 in value we will stop going - and j am sure some people are already there.

But just because something isn't as good as the past doesn't mean I automatically is terrible to everyone

I agree with you. For many families, especially multi generational ones, Disney has good value as they have something for everyone. If you are families that have gone a lot recently you can look past price increases as it's been more gradual for you.

For my family the value isn't there anymore as we haven't been since COVID. A lot of that at first was due to travel not being allowed and having a new child. Since then with increase in ticket prices, the Canadian exchange rate, it's hard to look past that.

I know Cedar Fair parks are not the same but our season passes for all parks with dining hasn't gone up much since 2020. That pass gets us into 27 parks and gives us 8 months of fun. It's hard for us to justify paying 10x the amount of our passes to a one week at Disney.

 

[UNCgolf]

Capacity that goes unused, is not capacity at all.

I think the budgets are a problem for their attraction development as a whole, but it's hard to make a case for people to get excited for smaller tier spinner/theater attractions. People know that they are lesser experiences and are just filler and when the "cost" to visit them is the same as visiting a major attraction (in time) it really hurts the comparison between them.

It makes more sense, if you're chasing value, to wait 40 minutes for a big attraction, than to spend 20 minutes waiting for a 20 minute theater show.

Value is subjective, though. If someone enjoys the theater show more than the big attraction (and that's not a wild hypothetical, these people exist and attend Disney parks), the latter is a better value for them. What you're suggesting only works if every single person that visits a theme park wants to A. experience every single attraction (which is obviously not true) and B. values every attraction exactly the same as every single other person; i.e., every single person visiting EPCOT thinks Cosmic Rewind is the #1 attraction, Soarin' the #2 attraction, etc., and that's clearly not the case either.

Also, saying unused capacity isn't capacity at all doesn't really make sense. If that's the standard, then essentially everything in the parks should be shut down for not sufficiently utilizing capacity, because even normally popular attractions can end up as a walk-on on days that aren't busy (this can even happen on busy days, especially close to closing).

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Internet ruins a lot of those things

1 - They are less suprises when everyone reads about them everywhere and its viral everywhere
2 - When they are less suprises, they become 'expectations' and bad customers abuse staff and the perk itself
3 - Common knowledge means abuse impacts scale - it expands from annoyance to 'disruptive'

TLDR - everything painful about a perk becomes worse when the Internet talks about it. And it usually leads to reduction in service as a result.

That seems like a bit of a broad assumption, since they were readily around 5-10 years ago.

You are blaming the customers here, when we all know that isn't the case.

But as I said, hard to discuss on an internet forum. I only mentioned them because those little perks were a big part of WDW's customer service, and what made the place seem magical.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

See for instance people wanting refunds at town hall over some show or weather issue, etc.

People have long said weather = they did not get the thing they bought at WDW, that is not new. I've been reading about that here since I joined the forum.

Still, the more WDW charges for a specific service, the more customers are going to expect them to actually provide the product WDW sold to them.

Customers are not wrong to dislike getting scammed (paying for something they did not get).

 

[flynnibus]

People have long said weather = they did not get the thing they bought at WDW, that is not new. I've been reading about that here since I joined the forum.

Newsflash... The internet is not new

Monkey see, Monkey do is amplified by information accessibility.. aka spread on the internet.

 

[flynnibus]

That seems like a bit of a broad assumption, since they were readily around 5-10 years ago.

You are blaming the customers here, when we all know that isn't the case.

Customers very often cause businesses to change because of abuse/frequency.

Like the policy of helping people with free clothing so their visit wouldn't be aborted if they didn't meet dress code. Then some decided to intentionally trigger the situation to exploit it for freebies.

Even when it's not 'abuse' - it can be problematic. Like, The Woody response to "andy's coming"... again an example of information discimination leading to changes in behavior because something that was intended to be low volume... became a nusiance/difficulty for the business when it was no longer limited use/application.

 

[DisneyHead123]

When guests are getting slapped in the face all day and night with ridiculous prices for everything from snacks to character meals to beverages and beyond, it's a constant awareness of excessive expense and a forced exercise in mental math.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - I think the required response is simple: WDW needs some loss leaders to recreate the perception of value. In the parks and at the resorts. They've had it before in the form of FP, DME, free Magic Bands, etc.

It honestly doesn't take much to help someone who just spent $300 a night on a room think they got a good deal, or spent $400 to get into the park but "only" paid $30 per person for a character meal. Or $2.50 for a pretzel or popcorn AND a drink.

WDW doesn't even have to lose any money on this - simply select some high margin items with minimal sales volume and promote the hell out of them at a much reduced cost. For every item or service that is perceived to be expensive, counter with items or services that scream value. It's a powerful psychological effect.

I’ve definitely noted that before - the way some of the post Covid cuts and upcharges were introduced seemed strange to me. I’m sure Disney has 10,000 times more institutional knowledge on the topic of consumer psychology than I do, and yet there didn’t seem to be any attempt to “sell it”. I don’t know if that was an intentional rip the bandaid off approach or it just felt like the world was burning down, but it just struck me as strange. For example, it seems to be consistently better when resorts bundle costs into the room charge and then pretend they’re giving out “free perks” vs. starting with a baseline hotel rate and upcharging for each extra. I don’t know why there was a sudden shift there (Not just at Disney either - I’ve read Great Wolf is doing “missing towel” charges if you take a towel from the pool to your room, which seems inexplicable. Like did all the marketing psychologists get fired during Covid?)

 

[Jrb1979]

I’ve definitely noted that before - the way some of the post Covid cuts and upcharges were introduced seemed strange to me. I’m sure Disney has 10,000 times more institutional knowledge on the topic of consumer psychology than I do, and yet there didn’t seem to be any attempt to “sell it”. I don’t know if that was an intentional rip the bandaid off approach or it just felt like the world was burning down, but it just struck me as strange. For example, it seems to be consistently better when resorts bundle costs into the room charge and then pretend they’re giving out “free perks” vs. starting with a baseline hotel rate and upcharging for each extra. I don’t know why there was a sudden shift there (Not just at Disney either - I’ve read Great Wolf is doing “missing towel” charges if you take a towel from the pool to your room, which seems inexplicable. Like did all the marketing psychologists get fired during Covid?)

The paid LLs and getting rid of Magic Express were things they have always wanted to do. With Covid it gave them the excuse to finally do it.

The thing is not every resort has gone this way. While prices have gone up for other park resorts, the perks they offer have stayed the same. I'm talking Universal, Hershey and Cedar Point.

 

[DisneyCane]

The security checks in the rooms,

You can thank the lawyers who sued MGM Resorts over the Vegas shooting for those. They are intrusive, pointless and will NEVER prevent a crime but, not doing them opens them up to huge liability.

MGM had to pay a huge judgment even though they had no actual culpability for what happened. Had the pointless room check policy been in place, the insane perpetrator could have just kept the weapons in bags, had a room check and then set everything up the second that housekeeping left the room.

These checks diminish the experience at any resort (not just WDW) that has implemented them as policy.

 

[Jrb1979]

You can thank the lawyers who sued MGM Resorts over the Vegas shooting for those. They are intrusive, pointless and will NEVER prevent a crime but, not doing them opens them up to huge liability.

MGM had to pay a huge judgment even though they had no actual culpability for what happened. Had the pointless room check policy been in place, the insane perpetrator could have just kept the weapons in bags, had a room check and then set everything up the second that housekeeping left the room.

These checks diminish the experience at any resort (not just WDW) that has implemented them as policy.

It's a big deal breaker for us. We go to places that don't do the room checks.

 

[Chi84]

You can thank the lawyers who sued MGM Resorts over the Vegas shooting for those. They are intrusive, pointless and will NEVER prevent a crime but, not doing them opens them up to huge liability.

MGM had to pay a huge judgment even though they had no actual culpability for what happened. Had the pointless room check policy been in place, the insane perpetrator could have just kept the weapons in bags, had a room check and then set everything up the second that housekeeping left the room.

These checks diminish the experience at any resort (not just WDW) that has implemented them as policy.

I never even notice them.

 

[Chi84]

It's a big deal breaker for us. We go to places that don't do the room checks.

That’s exactly the right way to handle it if something bothers you so much.

 

[DisneyCane]

It's a big deal breaker for us. We go to places that don't do the room checks.

Around WDW you can find hotels that don't do them. In Las Vegas I'm pretty sure all the major resorts do them, at least the ones on the Strip.

I never even notice them.

You've probably never been awakened at night to find security has entered your room to do one. I can assure you that you'd notice if that happened to you.

In general, you won't notice them if you get housekeeping service regularly. On vacation we are generally pretty clean and don't want housekeepers in the room with our stuff when we're not there so, unless we're staying more than a week, we leave the "Do Not Disturb" sign up all the time. At a place that has the room check policy, we need to basically schedule periodic interactions with housekeeping.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

You've probably never been awakened at night to find security has entered your room to do one. I can assure you that you'd notice if that happened to you.


In general, you won't notice them if you get housekeeping service regularly. On vacation we are generally pretty clean and don't want housekeepers in the room with our stuff when we're not there so, unless we're staying more than a week, we leave the "Do Not Disturb" sign up all the time. At a place that has the room check policy, we need to basically schedule periodic interactions with housekeeping.

Do they actually do this? I’d be beyond fuming if someone entered our room at night while we were in bed.

 

[Agent H]

Do they actually do this? I’d be beyond fuming if someone entered our room at night while we were in bed.

I know. I can’t believe it either.