WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[flynnibus]

Short of a time machine, how is Disney management supposed to handle the large numbers of guests visiting the parks right now?

Increase capacity

- Run attractions at their full capacities
- Ensure Dining Options are fully staffed and able to handle loads
- Create attractive offers to pull people into lower utilized spaces (atmosphere entertainment, show updates, etc)
- Stop partitioning capacity by closing the parks for paid events
- Offer longer hours and better evening experiences (instead of stripping down the parks)
- Create better draws to distribute loads
- Bring back entertainment that keeps people in the parks late rather than leaving MK the only evening option

Create more draw for things that can pull the crowds across the totality of your ability to absorb them

If you really are at physical capacity, then start limiting access until you expand that capacity. But pretty sure that's not the issue - the issue is the environment is crowded and unpleasant in their current operating mode.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because they can’t. WDW is the cash machine for the company.

…and the minute the sweatered weasel deemed himself a “tech guy” chasing quarterlies with “low overhead”…the parks were in trouble

Can’t put the genie back in that lamp

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I have elementary aged kids and I completely agree with you. There is way more competition in the children’s entertainment space than ever. Who was the last generation when Disney was the dominant player? Millennials? Maybe older Gen Z.

My kids know Disney because I love Disney and it’s the media I chose to show them young, helping to create that nostalgia and familiarity. Their peers don’t elevate Disney at all and differentiate it from other kids entertainment, unless their parents are Disney people.

Disney used to do synergy by inserting the parks into their entertainment media, drawing people in. Now it seems like it’s more the opposite, where synergy is plopping the IP everywhere instead, but how long until people just aren’t drawn in by IP that means nothing to them?

It’s those exact parents they’re pricing out

“Disney people”…who went frequently, brought it home with then and bought dvc…

Which has gotten a “fair” 400% price increase since the genius took over

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

It’s those exact parents they’re pricing out

“Disney people”…who went frequently, brought it home with then and bought dvc…

Which has gotten a “fair” 400% price increase since the genius took over

A dangerous game IMO, but I’m no CEO!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The people who are nostalgic for the parks when they started are pretty old now. Their kids can’t afford to take their families. So what place will nostalgia have down the line?

Parks were built 100% on the GG, Boom and X

The first is gone…the second is in advanced age…the third is getting there and notoriously cranky

…should go well

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think they think the base line is still affordable and why they have stripped things out vs keeping things included and raising pricing.

As they say the lowest ticket price hasn't increased and as Len's analysis showed, adjusted for inflation food costs are lower and the All Stars are cheaper.

BUT you get less for your $ and to have the same type of type you had 5-10 years ago you have to spend a lot more.

And people have less excess $ due to the cost of everything outpacing salary increases so people want more for what they spend not less

Back 5-10 years ago people could save and donate trip every few years and it was a stretch but they felt like they got a special experience and willing to sacrifice for it - that experience no longer feels worth it to many

…except they keep raising the prices across the board

 

[Chi84]

Increase capacity

- Run attractions at their full capacities
- Ensure Dining Options are fully staffed and able to handle loads
- Create attractive offers to pull people into lower utilized spaces (atmosphere entertainment, show updates, etc)
- Stop partitioning capacity by closing the parks for paid events
- Offer longer hours and better evening experiences (instead of stripping down the parks)
- Create better draws to distribute loads
- Bring back entertainment that keeps people in the parks late rather than leaving MK the only evening option

Create more draw for things that can pull the crowds across the totality of your ability to absorb them

If you really are at physical capacity, then start limiting access until you expand that capacity. But pretty sure that's not the issue - the issue is the environment is crowded and unpleasant in their current operating mode.

I don’t know how much crowding is due to the operating mode. Can Disney get enough CMs to go back to the longer hours and full operating capacity you are describing? My area has seen a shift in workers away from entry level positions.

How would you limit access? Park reservations?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Short of a time machine, how is Disney management supposed to handle the large numbers of guests visiting the parks right now?

The efficient way would be to knock off this “paced” investment/construction nonsense that is 100% a tactic.

Stop building timeshares

Run everything at full capacity (overhead is lower per capita)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t know how much crowding is due to the operating mode. Can Disney get enough CMs to go back to the longer hours and full operating capacity you are describing? My area has seen a shift in workers away from entry level positions.

How would you limit access? Park reservations?

If they pay overtime…absolutely

They still don’t pay well…BS aside…hours are a windfall - if tiring

 

[Agent H]

I can’t decide if it’s depressing or heartwarming to see two people who normally disagree on so much to be on the same page like this.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Yeah but wealth has become more concentrated…not less…for decades

Since 1968…actually

We are now 3 gennys in to a trend that will have much less wealth than their parents

Ok but 10% of a much larger (by over 100 million) number still has to be much larger, right? Unless you think 10% is not actually the metric they’re using (ie, it’s more a disposable income threshold).

 

[monothingie]

Agree. Another problem that I think will be a big problem is that the kids today are Not raised on Disney, like my generation was. They may not be familiar with Mickey or Donald, at least not any more than they are aware of the newer trendy ones.. I'm talking about Mario and others too. I am of the Mickey Mouse generation with the Mickey Mouse Club and Annette and the gang. The original Disney MM cartoons were better, IMO.
Maybe this isn't a problem, but I think it affects families more than we think.
Maybe Disney is pushing everything they can to make money now because they see the writing on the wall for MM too.
Or, I may be way off. Just thinking out of the box on this problem.

Just food for thought.........

This certainly isn’t being helped by the proliferation of IP in the parks. The focus on franchisees that may not be popular with all demographics is problematic.

Quite frankly, not everyone is enamored with for example a princess attraction or meet and greet or sing-along or parade. The beauty of not relying on IP focused attractions was that they had wide appeal.

 

[Chi84]

This certainly isn’t being helped by the proliferation of IP in the parks. The focus on franchisees that may not be popular with all demographics is problematic.

Quite frankly, not everyone is enamored with for example a princess attraction or meet and greet or sing-along or parade. The beauty of not relying on IP focused attractions was that they had wide appeal.

They’re just replacing older IP with newer in MK. But I agree they’re injecting too much IP into the other parks.

 

[hopemax]

..:all empires fall

My guess is Disney will have plenty of company when the fall comes. They’ll all be in Aspen, commiserating together, wondering why there are so many poor people. And thank goodness they never invested in capacity improvements.

Every corporate entity… Starve your company from smart development to chase the new golden goose, starve your labor, stock buybacks, tax stuff *waves hands all around*. Such a surprise, the trickle down will be.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Agree. Another problem that I think will be a big problem is that the kids today are Not raised on Disney, like my generation was. They may not be familiar with Mickey or Donald, at least not any more than they are aware of the newer trendy ones.. I'm talking about Mario and others too. I am of the Mickey Mouse generation with the Mickey Mouse Club and Annette and the gang. The original Disney MM cartoons were better, IMO.
Maybe this isn't a problem, but I think it affects families more than we think.
Maybe Disney is pushing everything they can to make money now because they see the writing on the wall for MM too.
Or, I may be way off. Just thinking out of the box on this problem.

Just food for thought.........

I’ve wondered about this as well, and even wondered if Disney parks are slowly moving to cater to adults vs. kids. Not entirely, but relatively speaking.

I feel like kids today whip out the dreaded B word (for… babies!!) at younger and younger ages. To be fair I haven’t seen it personally but I hear people talking about how (some) 5 year olds declare Thomas, Mickey, princesses, Bluey, etc. as being “for babies”. They’re asking for stuff like Nike gear, Stanley cups, Taylor Swift merch and so on by around age 7-9. I’ve heard tweens now watch beauty influencers and hit up Sephora at around 10 or 11. Most kids are super into YouTubers and online game apps. It just strikes me as being so different than the days when 10 year olds ran around in raccoon hats or mouse ears, thinking Davey Crockett or the Mouseketeers were the best.

I will say Disney seems to be adapting to this landscape. The latest Descendants movie was a big deal, that was one of the biggest Halloween costumes last year. It does seem like a different world than even a decade ago though.

 

[monothingie]

..:all empires fall

Or get bought up by a technology company with some extra change they found in their self cushions.

 

[monothingie]

I’ve wondered about this as well, and even wondered if Disney parks are slowly moving to cater to adults vs. kids. Not entirely, but relatively speaking.

I feel like kids today whip out the dreaded B word (for… babies!!) at younger and younger ages. To be fair I haven’t seen it personally but I hear people talking about how (some) 5 year olds declare Thomas, Mickey, princesses, Bluey, etc. as being “for babies”. They’re asking for stuff like Nike gear, Stanley cups, Taylor Swift merch and so on by around age 7-9. I’ve heard tweens now watch beauty influencers and hit up Sephora at around 10 or 11. Most kids are super into YouTubers and online game apps. It just strikes me as being so different than the days when 10 year olds ran around in raccoon hats or mouse ears, thinking Davey Crockett or the Mouseketeers were the best.

I will say Disney seems to be adapting to this landscape. The latest Descendants movie was a big deal, that was one of the biggest Halloween costumes last year. It does seem like a different world than even a decade ago though.

In the 70s 80s and 90s Disney did have a strong focus on the adults. You can look at the nightlife and entertainment and dining venues they had that were really not designed for children.

It was a balance that separated, adult and children’s activities and it worked very well.

The Disney adult is just a social media construct of people wanting to relive the nostalgia of their childhood experiences.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

How many days a year is that lowest ticket price offered?

Oh, like close to none .... But there are numbers you can put into a spreadsheet that show ifyou went on the cheapest date in 2018 and then cheapest date in 2024, adjusted for inflation it isn't that different


Problem is most people don't/can't go on the cheapest date so pricing is up and now you have to add in transport from the airport, etc

 

[DisneyHead123]

In the 70s 80s and 90s Disney did have a strong focus on the adults. You can look at the nightlife and entertainment and dining venues they had that were really not designed for children.

It was a balance that separated, adult and children’s activities and it worked very well.

The Disney adult is just a social media construct of people wanting to relive the nostalgia of their childhood experiences.

Interesting take - I can’t really agree or disagree as I was a kid during that time and so the parks seemed very kid oriented to me.

 

[monothingie]

Interesting take - I can’t really agree or disagree as I was a kid during that time and so the parks seemed very kid oriented to me.

Which is exactly as it should be. It was a simpler time, but you probably had no idea that places like Pleasure Island and Top of the World were a thing. EPCOT Center was an adult adventure for learning, entertaining, dining, and culture that didn't need Elsa or Moana. The quality of the attraction or experience was the draw for children and adults.