WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Laketravis]

I’ve stayed at Coronado twice. Never was an issue.

For less than $40/day difference, you can stay at Coronado instead of Dockside and get water slides, hot tubs, a fitness center, a gorgeously themed pool, easy access to much better restaurants. You name it. All of which Dockside lacks.

Sorry, but it's much more than a $40 difference and Dockside has a fitness center, INDOOR HALLWAY room access, daily housekeeping, an A/C thermostat that doesn't shut down on you in the middle of the night, an actual refrigerator, a great pool area, and a short walk or Uber ride to even better (and more economical) restaurants.

But we've already covered this in previous posts.

 

[Stripes]

Sorry, but it's much more than a $40 difference

You were saying? I’m using the exact same dates you gave earlier.

Now, Dockside has an indoor hallway that I’d rather it didn’t have because the walls are so paper thin it makes the sound issue even worse.

Meanwhile, Coronado has Three Bridges and Toledo which are fantastic restaurants and free transportation to some of the best restaurants in Orlando at Disney Springs. Coronado’s pool is beautiful and has a slide and hot tub, none of which is the case for Dockside. The Dockside pool looks like the world’s nicest prison.

 

[Chi84]

You were saying? I’m using the exact same dates you gave earlier.



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Now, Dockside has an indoor hallway that I’d rather it didn’t have because the walls are so paper thin it makes the sound issue even worse.

Meanwhile, Coronado has Three Bridges and Toledo which are fantastic restaurants and free transportation to some of the best restaurants in Orlando at Disney Springs. Coronado’s pool is beautiful and has a slide and hot tub, none of which is the case for Dockside. The Dockside pool looks like the world’s nicest prison.


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Great picture comparison.

 

[Laketravis]

You were saying? I’m using the exact same dates you gave earlier.



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Now, Dockside has an indoor hallway that I’d rather it didn’t have because the walls are so paper thin it makes the sound issue even worse.

Meanwhile, Coronado has Three Bridges and Toledo which are fantastic restaurants and free transportation to some of the best restaurants in Orlando at Disney Springs. Coronado’s pool is beautiful and has a slide and hot tub, none of which is the case for Dockside. The Dockside pool looks like the world’s nicest prison.


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Comparing a non-discounted pool view room to a discounted room with a view of the parking lot? Nice try.

 

[Stripes]

Comparing a non-discounted pool view room to a discounted room with a view of the parking lot? Nice try.

Do you see where it says “seasonal rate?”

These are the cheapest rooms at Dockside, not the pool view rooms.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

inside, outside, upside down, whatever. let’s get back to financial/business talk

 

[Laketravis]

Do you see where it says “seasonal rate?”

These are the cheapest rooms at Dockside, not the pool view rooms.

That's not the cheapest. This is the cheapest, and it's pool view. Note that a "preferred room" at Coronado could be a parking lot view while at Dockside it's a pool view. With daily housekeeping, a thermostat that doesn't shut down at night, an actual refrigerator, etc...etc...ad nauseum.

We are debating subjective, personal preferences. I'm not going to be able to convince you that one is better than the other, you like what you like.

But the point is, WDW parks aren't the only source of price pain. The resorts and QS/TSR's are suffering as well. The differences are STARK and support the narrative that WDW is getting too expensive. No matter how you spin it, the comparable option shown above is literally half the price of WDW.

 

[James Alucobond]

Your "better comparison" is the AP discount?

 

[Laketravis]

Your "better comparison" is the AP discount?

You bet. An AP discount at WDW is roughly the same as the GP discount, if you can even get it. Knock a few bucks off the discount shown for an AP discount and it's still almost twice as much. Not going down the rabbit hole even further but if you introduce the cost of AP's to the discussion it even further illustrates how WDW has gotten too expensive.

 

[Stripes]

This is actually a better comparison, same dates. Note that a "preferred room" at Coronado could be a parking lot view while at Dockside it's a pool view. With daily housekeeping, a thermostat that doesn't shut down at night, an actual refrigerator, etc...etc...ad nauseum.

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We are debating subjective, personal preferences. I'm not going to be able to convince you that one is better than the other, you like what you like.

But the point is, WDW parks aren't the only source of price pain. The resorts and QS/TSR's are suffering as well. The differences are STARK and support the narrative that WDW is getting too expensive.

Dude, the Dockside rate has an AP discount. Most visitors to Orlando don’t have APs to Universal.

I picked the cheapest rooms at both resorts available to anybody, not just APs, which is genuinely a fair comparison.

 

[James Alucobond]

You bet. An AP discount at WDW is roughly the same as the GP discount, if you can even get it. Knock a few bucks off the discount shown for an AP discount and it's still almost twice as much. Not going down the rabbit hole even further but if you introduce the cost of AP's to the discussion it even further illustrates how WDW has gotten too expensive.

Dude, the Dockside rate has an AP discount. Most visitors to Orlando don’t have APs to Universal.

I picked the cheapest rooms at both resorts available to anybody, not just APs, which is genuinely a fair comparison.

This.

Your personal situation with an AP is not typical and should not be used for a general comparison. That would be relevant to a completely different discussion around deficiencies with regard to AP benefits.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Yeah I hesitate to compare APs in general. I think the overlap between owning an AP/season pass of any kind and needing a hotel to visit the park is quite low. The percentage of FL residents holding UOAPs has gotta be above 90%.

 

[Laketravis]

Then define "Typical".

Because I'm wondering what percentage of guests inside the parks or staying at the resorts are first time visitors. Pretty sure it's no longer the majority, which would mean they aren't "typical".

Price pressure will at some point modify behavior, and a typical guest (not a first time visitor) begins to seek out ways to reduce that pressure. They may start to look at reducing their per-visit cost by purchasing AP's in order to secure room discounts.

Maybe they become like me where the AP purchase is the biggest annual expense for a year of multiple trips with heavily discounted room rates and airfare purchased with points. Wow, what a difference in cost that can make.

Based on pure numbers, I think your "typical" guest is onsite multiple times a year. And is getting pretty adept at controlling their costs. Which is why WDW continues to have to raise prices.

 

[LSLS]

Doesn't universal also charge parking or resort fees or something like that? I really do want to be in on universal, but there's a reason I don't ever go there, their pricing is just as bad.

 

[Stripes]

Doesn't universal also charge parking or resort fees or something like that? I really do want to be in on universal, but there's a reason I don't ever go there, their pricing is just as bad.

Yep. $26 per night, per vehicle.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Based on pure numbers, I think your "typical" guest is onsite multiple times a year.

Really? That would surprise me, but I guess anything is possible.

Disney does have DVC to encourage frequent visits with hotel stays, but I would be surprised if Universal's typical hotel guest (or Disney's typical non-DVC hotel guest) is returning several times a year.

 

[Dranth]

Based on pure numbers, I think your "typical" guest is onsite multiple times a year. And is getting pretty adept at controlling their costs. Which is why WDW continues to have to raise prices.

Outside of these forums I have never run across anyone who goes to WDW multiple times a year outside of locals. I bet repeat visitors are a high percentage of their overall park business, just not sure about in the same year.

Do any of our numbers people or insiders have any insights into this? It would be interesting to know one way or the other.

 

[Laketravis]

Really? That would surprise me, but I guess anything is possible.

Disney does have DVC to encourage frequent visits with hotel stays, but I would be surprised if Universal's typical hotel guest (or Disney's typical non-DVC hotel guest) is returning several times a year.

I think it could be even more true at WDW than Universal - all day long I'm meeting people who are regulars and come stay at the resorts, of course many are from Florida - met the defensive coach and his wife from FSU on the Skyliner, for instance, and they were staying at CBR). The foreigners who get pretty good deals and come every holiday, etc. and outside of that it seems the majority of the people in the parks during the times we go (Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr) are regulars.

Would love to see the stats because I truly believe these days the first-time-ever-been-here guests are a small minority each day.

ETA: The months we go are cooler, during the school year, and often better pricing (our resort was $85 a night last month). While not necessarily the slow season anymore, it's preferable to our demographic because we aren't tied to a school schedule. I suppose the summer months (May-August) would see a higher percentage of first timers because school is out and it's time to take the kids on that Disney dream vacation. But summer attendance is dwindling which could indicate a concerning drop in first-time visitors.

 

[HauntedPirate]

From the TBA VQ thread:

Which is why, as long as they find people willing to stand in those lines, they have little no incentive to fully resolve their attraction capacity issues.

Cars isn't a solution. That will be an additional unneeded draw to the MK, just like Tron was.

If anything, their current plans for expansion seem to be about drawing more people to their busiest park rather than anything to do with providing more capacity to handle existing guest levels.

They have smart people working there. I'm sure they're fully aware of this.

That tells me they feel the current guest experience is fine, either as-is or as an incentive to get people to spend more to get out of the lines.

So yeah, all the levels of LL being a "popular" success seem to indicate they've effectively monetized making guests unhappy with the extended waits they've created so why ever try to fix it?

Improving what is now the "base" guest experience disincentivizes people from buying into the various line skip schemes.

They've made it so making guests happy reduces the money they can shake loose from people unless that happiness is tied to an up-sell of some sort. As such, it seems they want guests to be unhappy. It's just a matter of striking the right level of unhappiness and up-sell pricing to get to where the majority of guests are more likely to spend the price asked to fix things for their visit vs. getting fed up and swearing off the parks.

The problem as I see it is I think where they are now, people in the general populace are willing to spend what's needed to salvage their current trip but are more likely to think harder about going back after.

I've said it for years - Disney created a problem, and has monetized the solution. Josh and Hugh and Bob talk about "being price-sensitive" and wanting "guests to form a habit of returning". Yet at seemingly every turn, they are actively doing things to sabotage those words. Annual food and beverage price increases. The rumored ticket price hikes coming soon (which is basically a given). More LL "options". DVC? Gotta raise those per-point prices every year. MNSSHP and MVMCP ticket prices hit new highs (while admittedly still selling out). As an example - They could hold the line on food/bev prices for a year. They could hold the line on ticket prices for a year. Sure, it would mean a hit to the ol' profit margin for a few quarters, but would they rather have unhappy shareholders, who are not exactly happy to begin with, or push away more guests in the hope that those who remain will happily fork over more money? I guess they're going to find out.

 

[Laketravis]

From the TBA VQ thread:



I've said it for years - Disney created a problem, and has monetized the solution. Josh and Hugh and Bob talk about "being price-sensitive" and wanting "guests to form a habit of returning". Yet at seemingly every turn, they are actively doing things to sabotage those words. Annual food and beverage price increases. The rumored ticket price hikes coming soon (which is basically a given). More LL "options". DVC? Gotta raise those per-point prices every year. MNSSHP and MVMCP ticket prices hit new highs (while admittedly still selling out). As an example - They could hold the line on food/bev prices for a year. They could hold the line on ticket prices for a year. Sure, it would mean a hit to the ol' profit margin for a few quarters, but would they rather have unhappy shareholders, who are not exactly happy to begin with, or push away more guests in the hope that those who remain will happily fork over more money? I guess they're going to find out.

Because totally subjective opinions like these from loyal fans are exactly why WDW can and does continue to raise prices:

Meanwhile, Coronado has Three Bridges and Toledo which are fantastic restaurants and free transportation to some of the best restaurants in Orlando at Disney Springs. Coronado’s pool is beautiful and has a slide and hot tub, none of which is the case for Dockside. The Dockside pool looks like the world’s nicest prison.