WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Tha Realest]

You buried the lead here

They are losing the family market…so what’s left is the grandfathered in adults


Good thing thing they haven’t sterilized the compound from adults with gimmicky stuff for kids and dusters for the last 20 years, eh?

In my experience Dual Income No Kids or the Gen Z crowd is quite finicky and abhors routines in ways that previous generations and families do. DVC, for example, is heavily marketed to multigenerational families and as a way to “pass on” the gift of vacations. How many Dual Income No Kids are signing up for a decades-long DVC lease?

If the company really has eschewed cultivating multigenerational families in favor of fickle Dual Income No Kids then good luck with that!

 

[Stripes]

So many great comments here as I've skimmed over the past day or so.

All I can add is;

Two years ago, when I evacuated and took my tax money with me moved from Southern California to Utah, I celebrated by booking a stay at Amangiri, the Aman resort in southern Utah. I'd stayed at an Aman hotel in Tokyo before, and it was fabulous, so I wanted to try their Utah experience. It was stunning. Absolute perfection. Food, service, polish, amenities, spookily accurate attentiveness, extreme professionalism, bizarrely curated offerings, incredible architecture, excellent soft goods, impressive staff training and polish, EVERYTHING was perfection. (Not to mention the people watching by the pool was hysterical!)

And as a guy who spent many, many visits to WDW at the Poly in the 1980's-2000's, I was floored when I happily paid the Amex bill a few weeks later, still on an Aman high. I could have spent the same money and stayed in a Poly one bedroom suite and had dramatically lower service levels, dramatically lower operational offerings, noticeably inferior soft goods and amenities, all served up by a staff of CM's that too often seems like a sloppy amateur hour as they dream up new ways to tell you "No".

TDO, and Burbank, both have huge problems with their current Parks core products. These problems are at their most glaring at WDW because of its business model built around attracting, and keeping, customers on property for a week or so. Their entire Parks business model is collapsing under a decade or more of penny-pinching, and value-engineering, and App-based torture, and cheapened training processes and obviously lowered employee standards, with a big dollop of TDO bureaucracy and idiocy on top.

Sadly, they deserve this bad press. If anything, the WSJ was being too kind on them.

Amangiri is in the middle of nowhere with vistas of the Utah landscape and prices over $4,000 per night in May. A one bedroom suite with theme park view at the Poly’s Island Tower in May is $1,418 per night.

With just 30 or so suites Amangiri is focused on relaxation while a Disney trip is geared toward fun. They’re not really competing against each other.

 

[TP2000]

Exactly this. How terrible the services have become at Disney Resorts. The best is when you call the front desk for a specific question about your Resort, but alas, it's a call center not on property and they try their best to help but often do not have the information requested and/or give you wrong info.
Anecdotally, just back in November, the bus stops at CBR were advertising bike rentals at the lighthouse. There were no rentals in actuality. I called the "front desk" and they assured that bike rentals were available at the lighthouse. I stopped by the front desk and was told bike rentals stopped pre covid.

Edit to add: these examples make me feel the value for what was paid is diminished.

A great example of the current Parks management and operation. No one working there is truly in charge.

No CM you actually see in the Parks or at a Resort can actually help you, unless by "help" you mean tell you to do it on the App or phone a distant call center and then end that non-answer by saying "and have a magical day!"

Even worse, the Dockers-clad managers in the Parks have no real authority or decision making power, and no real communication with anyone in a far away office building who has even a shred of authority or decision making power. Like the Dockers-clad Parks manager, the puffed up "hotel manager" preening behind the front desk at an expensive Deluxe Resort is the same way; about all he can really do is send you up a small plate of chocolate-covered strawberries when the App crashes or CM incompetence messed something up. And have a magical day.

No one working in the Parks/Resorts/Hotels in a salaried management role has any ability or authority to go over and take the 5 year old bike rental sign down. Or worse, they are such an incompetent manager that they have no idea that sign is even there at their own property. There's a signage manager 5 miles away in a Celebration cubicle farm that does that for them, and even they do their jobs so badly that they have no idea there's still the wrong signs up at an alleged "World Class Resort".

WDW has almost become a Potemkin Village of App-based insanity and bad management. They did this to themselves.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Here's a wild anecdotal thing. My youngest has been a few times to WDW (we usually need to be down there for a convention in the summer). The thing he wants most this summer when we go down? A hotel with a crazy pool. He could care less about the parks. All he talks about right now is going to Cedar Point this summer (mind you he's in Kindergarten). I think of some of those memories from when I was younger. It's not riding Space Mountain or dumbo. It's the parades (especially at night), the fireworks, it's the character interactions, things like that (it still occurs, but I still remember NEEDING to stay out every night to watch the electric water parade). He just doesn't have any connection with the parks at all outside of "Oh that Guardians of the Galaxy ride is fun." I know I've been broken from my loyalty, but we still go, and it's interesting that it's not connecting at all with him at his age. Now, it could just be kids are weird and he will look back much differently later, but he definitely could care less about going to Disney this year.

My son enjoys the parks but he's not hard to entertain. He thinks the local pool, time on his iPad, or driving around while he shouts potty words into Apple CarPlay's voice-to-text is the best time ever. Honestly a big part of why we go is so the adults in the group can have a vacation that's actually a vacation. I feel like when I ask a lot of kids what they remember about a Disney vacation, it tends to be the airplane and the pool.

 

[TP2000]

Amangiri is in the middle of nowhere with vistas of the Utah landscape and prices over $4,000 per night in May. A one bedroom suite with theme park view at the Poly’s Island Tower in May is $1,418 per night.

With just 30 or so suites Amangiri is focused on relaxation while a Disney trip is geared toward fun. They’re not really competing against each other.

I reserved Amangiri many months in advance (like many families do for WDW vacations) and I paid far less than 4K for my Mesa View suite.

I wasn't comparing Aman hotels to WDW as a comparable entertainment option, I was comparing them simply at the price points they charge for their experiences. Amangiri (and the Aman I stayed at in Tokyo) was vastly, vastly superior to WDW's current offerings in every way in traditional Hospitality Industry benchmarks;

Staff training and performance, staff polish and professionalism, food service and quality, attentiveness, curated entertainment offerings and excursions, transportation logistics, architecture and design, soft goods and amenities, staff appearance and grooming, staff deportment, tending to the tiniest of details, etc.

If Disney is "only" charging $1,400 per night for a one bedroom suite, they need to be doing far better than WDW's (and Disneyland's) current standards for service and experience.

 

[Stripes]

I reserved Amangiri many months in advance (like many families do for WDW vacations) and I paid far less than 4K for my Mesa View suite.

I don’t know what to tell you. This is as far out as their booking calendar goes and these are the prices.

It sounds like you got a steal and are unfairly comparing the quality of service you received at a niche, luxury resort with only about 30 suites to a resort with vastly lower average prices and serves several times more guests in a single month than Amangiri serves in a whole year.

 

[Jrb1979]

I've always taken the "people visit because of nostalgia thing" as a given as well. But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if this arose out of the stereotype that Disney is for kids, so if adults like it, that can only be the result of childhood nostalgia. But increasingly I think adults like going to Disney for its own sake, and it's seen more as a fun destination for young adults. It seems like Disney influencers with kids are actually the exception, not the norm, which would seem to indicate something about the audience consuming that content.

I mean if you think about it, we rarely if ever apply this thinking to anything else. People don't worry that if they don't take their kids to Starbucks they won't grow up to be coffee lovers, if they can't afford to go to Europe their kids will refuse to visit Europe as adults, and so on. Or the reverse - we went to Kings Island plenty of times when I was a kid and I loved it, but as an adult I have no desire to go back. Nostalgia did nothing for me in that case.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Disney is ever going to give up on families entirely. They must make bank from little ones going through their "princess phase", after all - the Bippity Boppity Boutique, the princess meals, the costumes, the merch. That's not changing anytime soon. But I do think that when it comes to disposable income, parents are typically going to be at a disadvantage when compared to childless people with a similar income. Not in every single case, but on average, parents probably have more motivation to visit Disney (you generally have way fewer options for vacations with children in tow), but less resources to do so.

Just my two cents anyway. Time will tell I guess.

I see posts like the bolded a lot here. If you're not into coasters it makes sense. While grew up in Disney parks and do enjoy the older attractions, I also got big into the coaster enthusiast community and travel the country getting coaster credits. Nothing beats going 120mph in 4 seconds.

As far as the rest of your post goes, I do agree that's Disney is now targetting childless adults. I'm not so sure that's sustainable. While those people will visit Disney, I don't think many are the repeat visitors they rely on, like families and DVC were.

 

[Agent H]

I see posts like the bolded a lot here. If you're not into coasters it makes sense. While grew up in Disney parks and do enjoy the older attractions, I also got big into the coaster enthusiast community and travel the country getting coaster credits. Nothing beats going 120mph in 4 seconds.

As far as the rest of your post goes, I do agree that's Disney is now targetting childless adults. I'm not so sure that's sustainable. While those people will visit Disney, I don't think many are the repeat visitors they rely on, like families and DVC were.

What I am noticing is that the amount of passholders in the parks is increasing it feels like Disney World is getting closer and closer to the Disneyland locals audience

 

[TP2000]

I don’t know what to tell you. This is as far out as their booking calendar goes and these are the prices.


View attachment 843898

My stay at Amangiri was in early 2023, I was in a Mesa View suite and my nightly rate was about 60% of that. But if that's what they are now charging for 2026, more power to them. They've got an incredible product.

For those keeping score at home, a stay at Amangiri is all inclusive. The rates posted above include;

• 3 meals per day (at incredibly high Michelin-star quality) for 2 people per room at the hotels' restaurants or room service
• Round trip luxury transportation from the airport
• Daily excursions and staff-led activities in the surrounding desert
• Beverages and snacks refilled twice-daily and curated to your exact tastes in your suite's wet bar
• Twice daily housekeeping, daily wellness classes, extensive hotel offerings, general coddling and butt kissing, etc.

Someone who is more bored than I am can try pricing out a WDW vacation for two staying in a 1-Bedroom suite at the Poly for $1,400 per night, but then adding on 3 meals at high-end WDW restaurants per day, park tickets, a black Escalade to pick you up at MCO baggage claim, and the various Lightning Lane and App-based charges for a WDW (or DLR) vacation.

My hunch is it will get very close to Amangiri, but fall far short when it comes to CM service and offerings.

 

[Jrb1979]

What I am noticing is that the amount of passholders in the parks is increasing it feels like Disney World is getting closer and closer to the Disneyland locals audience

IMO that's not a good thing. They need a balance of both APs and out of state visitors. AP holders don't fill the hotels. IMO they need to offer only 1 type of AP. Get rid of the cheaper ones

 

[Stripes]

My stay at Amangiri was in early 2023, I was in a Mesa View suite and my nightly rate was about 60% of that. But if that's what they are now charging for 2026, more power to them. They've got an incredible product.

For those keeping score at home, a stay at Amangiri is all inclusive. The rates posted above include;

• 3 meals per day (at incredibly high Michelin-star quality) for 2 people per room at the hotels' restaurants or room service
• Round trip luxury transportation from the airport
• Daily excursions and staff-led activities in the surrounding desert
• Beverages and snacks refilled twice-daily and curated to your exact tastes in your suite's wet bar
• Twice daily housekeeping, daily wellness classes, extensive hotel offerings, general coddling and butt kissing, etc.

Someone who is more bored than I am can try pricing out a WDW vacation for two staying in a 1-Bedroom suite at the Poly for $1,400 per night, but then adding on 3 meals at high-end WDW restaurants per day, park tickets, and the various Lightning Lane and App-based charges for a WDW (or DLR) vacation.

My hunch is it will get very close to Amangiri, but fall far short when it comes to CM service and offerings.

Notably, drinks are not part of this all-inclusive resort experience. And I can tell you I’d be doing a lot of that.

 

[Agent H]

IMO that's not a good thing. They need a balance of both APs and out of state visitors. AP holders don't fill the hotels. IMO they need to offer only 1 type of AP. Get rid of the cheaper ones

Well depends how if you’re talking from a money making perspective then I could see it being enough to make it through the rough economy of the next few years if you’re talking from a guest facing perspective imo the more diehard fan focused stuff the better not to mention it just feels good to be surrounded by like minded people it’s the whole reason I joined these boards! Now if you wanna talk about hotels seems to me you have a point there

 

[TP2000]

Notably, drinks are not part of this all-inclusive resort experience. And I can tell you I’d be doing a lot of that.

Oh, gosh, don't get me started on that!

I went with my sister and her grown sons. We had an uncharacteristically tender and emotional family moment (we're Scandinavian Protestants who generally shun human emotion) at sundown one evening with a perfectly chilled bottle of Veuve while looking out fireside over the stunning desert. We toasted our parents and each other and our shared family future and legacy. Dare I say it, it was truly magical.

And it required no App, no wait at Guest Services. The Aman concierge who phoned me a few weeks out asked some great questions, and created that experience for us literally out of the desert sand.

Could the college program kid that passes as a faux "concierge" at the Poly lounge have done that? Highly doubtful.

 

[Agent H]

Oh, gosh, don't get me started on that!

I went with my sister and her grown sons. We had an uncharacteristically tender and emotional family moment (we're Scandinavian Protestants who generally shun human emotion) at sundown one evening with a perfectly chilled bottle of Veuve while looking out fireside over the stunning desert. We toasted our parents and each other and our shared family future and legacy. Dare I say it, it was truly magical.

And it required no App, no wait at Guest Services. The Aman concierge who phoned me a few weeks out asked some great questions, and created that experience for us literally out of the desert sand.

Could the college program kid that passes as a faux "concierge" at the Poly lounge have done that? Highly doubtful.

Why do you have to insult the cast member’s? there doing their best to help YOU

 

[MisterPenguin]

So many great comments here as I've skimmed over the past day or so.

All I can add is;

Two years ago, when I evacuated and took my tax money with me moved from Southern California to Utah, I celebrated by booking a stay at Amangiri, the Aman resort in southern Utah. I'd stayed at an Aman hotel in Tokyo before, and it was fabulous, so I wanted to try their Utah experience. It was stunning. Absolute perfection. Food, service, polish, amenities, spookily accurate attentiveness, extreme professionalism, bizarrely curated offerings, incredible architecture, excellent soft goods, impressive staff training and polish, EVERYTHING was perfection. (Not to mention the people watching by the pool was hysterical!)

And as a guy who spent many, many visits to WDW at the Poly in the 1980's-2000's, I was floored when I happily paid the Amex bill a few weeks later, still on an Aman high. I could have spent the same money and stayed in a Poly one bedroom suite and had dramatically lower service levels, dramatically lower operational offerings, noticeably inferior soft goods and amenities, all served up by a staff of CM's that too often seems like a sloppy amateur hour as they dream up new ways to tell you "No".

TDO, and Burbank, both have huge problems with their current Parks core products. These problems are at their most glaring at WDW because of its business model built around attracting, and keeping, customers on property for a week or so. Their entire Parks business model is collapsing under a decade or more of penny-pinching, and value-engineering, and App-based torture, and cheapened training processes and obviously lowered employee standards, with a big dollop of TDO bureaucracy and idiocy on top.

Sadly, they deserve this bad press. If anything, the WSJ was being too kind on them.

For as many years I've been on these boards, everyone agrees, including pixie dusters like me, that Disney Deluxe Accommodations fail in comparison to non-theme park hotels' Deluxe Accommodations.

This comes up when people look at the room in and of itself and say, "this isn't deluxe" or "this is overpriced," and it's the truth.

That's because:

1. Disney shouldn't be calling it "deluxe" because it invites comparison to actual Deluxe Accommodations.​

​

2. It is priced as if it were Deluxe because of:​

a) Access to world class theme parks​

b) Ostensible nostalgic theming.​

For people who may not care for quick park access or Disney theming, they're better off at hotel with real Deluxe Accommodations if that's what they want.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Their entire Parks business model is collapsing

It has issues. It's not collapsing.

 

[Jrb1979]

It has issues. It's not collapsing.

Agreed but IMO unless things change, there will be a day they no longer will be number 1.

 

[TP2000]

Why do you have to insult the cast member’s? there doing their best to help YOU

No one is insulting anyone personally. I am criticizing Disney executives and senior management who have spent the past 20 years or so purposely degrading the customer experience. A great deal of that degradation can be put squarely on a noticeable decline in front-line CM standards; grooming, deportment and overall performance. This is due to a weakening of their training programs and purposely lowering standards for their front-line supervisors and middle management.

It's obvious to anyone who remembers WDW in the 20th century, and has been documented well for years now.

The college kid playing "concierge" in the Poly club lounge has not been given the training, supervision, or investment, much less empowerment, to do much of anything except restock the coffee bar and tell you to check the App. This has been done on purpose for some reason by senior Parks management for over a decade now. The result is predictably bad.

 

[TP2000]

It has issues. It's not collapsing.

That did read a bit overblown, didn't it?

I guess by "collapsing", I don't mean literally or even heading into a societal death spiral like San Francisco. I meant culturally and almost ethereally, as in the unique and once-nurtured company culture that Disney created for itself and its parks and hotels.

Too many of the old CM standards are long gone now. Too many of the little extras and perks and cutesy things they used to do have been cut and eliminated and value-engineered into thin air. Or worse, turned into a tab on the App. We're left with a physical parks property that still looks much as it did in 2005, but with too much stuff now missing and a vibe and environment that is noticeably of lesser quality.

The culture and show that Disney created themselves in the 20th century has been chipped away so much in the past 20 years, that the bigger chunks now taken out in the 2020's seem to be collapsing the entire product experience. I wouldn't be surprised if CM's in the parks start wearing generic polo shirts in a few years. Would that surprise you? It wouldn't surprise me at this point.

They are doing all of this on purpose, and it's sad.

 

[Agent H]

No one is insulting anyone personally. I am criticizing Disney executives and senior management who have spent the past 20 years or so purposely degrading the customer experience. A great deal of that degradation can be put squarely on a noticeable decline in front-line CM standards; grooming, deportment and overall performance. This is due to a weakening of their training programs and purposely lowering standards for their front-line supervisors and middle management.

It's obvious to anyone who remembers WDW in the 20th century, and has been documented well for years now.

The college kid playing "concierge" in the Poly club lounge has not been given the training, supervision, or investment, much less empowerment, to do much of anything except restock the coffee bar and tell you to check the App. This has been done on purpose for some reason by senior Parks management for over a decade now. The result is predictably bad.

Yes because heaven forbid someone have a mustache