working out for Disney

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Good morning!

We were able to go to the gym both Saturday and Sunday. I've been enjoying the treadmill a lot more with the new sneakers. They are so comfy. I've started to add some elevation into the mix, although, I had a panic moment yesterday when it got stuck at lvl 15 (the highest). Thankfully, pausing the machine reset something in there and let me lower it for the rest of the workout. Saturday was arms and Sunday was legs. I have to admit that arms weren't very comfy with my hurt finger. It's not as easy to grip and I managed to bang that finger on something with the seated row to aggravate it a bit. That being said, it feels a lot better...to the point that I feel kind of silly going to the dr today. Still, urgent care said I should follow up with a regular doctor regardless of how I felt. Of course, we're like so many that don't have a regular general doctor because we have specialists for our most common needs. Every supermarket and drug store has some kind of clinic if you develop something more minor. Not to mention every time I've tried to have a normal doctor, they want to take over for my specialists. So, I'll just go through with it for my finger, but I'm really not in the mood. I have to go into the MD Anderson tomorrow for xrays and my 6 month follow up for everything related to the melanoma last year so that's a lot of dr stuff between 2 days.
 

MinnieM123

Premium Member
Finally made it back to the gym. That's just how my momth's been going.

All the New Year's resolution people are here. 🤦‍♀️ My gym has only been open for less than a year, so we already have a lot of gym newbies, but the New Year's resolution crowd is something else...
The New Year's crowd always fades out by the end of January -- just hang in there a few weeks, and your gym will return back to normal. :)
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
The hospitals concerns are a mix of issues. For starters, we have a high deductible insurance plan. It seems to be the way a lot of corporate healthcare is going over here. In any event, a couple of nights in the hospital will equate to $4,000-6,000 in bills because of the way the plan works. I also have uncooperative veins and really get freaked out by IVs. I don't mind injections and have gotten better with blood draws, but IVs really bother me. The IV antibiotics also did a number on my stomach last time and it took a while to recover. It feels like it's getting better, so fingers crossed (literally) that today's dr agrees.

She's in TONS of things, to the point that she barely has any time. Being a team manager for softball also means putting in the time with the team. She was out the door around 5:30am today to coordinate the weekly team weight room session and then out on the field to help manage JV practice. She'll also travel with the team too.

I'm hoping it all works out. We got very little time in the Rapid City area the last time we were up there, so I have unfinished business. The softball tournament is Boulder area, but we may also have her attend a camp pre-tournament in Loveland and we should have one extra day pre-play to visit Rocky Mountain National Park again (maybe even 2 days). As for the route, it really depends on what Google Maps shows is the fastest at the time. Most times I've mapped it, it looks like it's going to take us north on 25 through Cheyenne, cut over to 85 in far eastern WY, and then to 18 to take us into southwestern SD. We've been through a couple of different parts of NE and the eastern side isn't too bad. Honestly, it can't be any more boring than driving through eastern Colorado. Once you lose the mountains, it's flat prairie land...which I'm sure we'll have plenty of on the way home. The route home will take us through Nebraska (closer to Lincoln), Kansas (via Wichita), and Oklahoma (OK City area). Funny...Mammoth Cave was my first national park! I barely have any memory of it, but we lived in Ohio for a couple of years when I was really young. Too bad she wouldn't go to Graceland. I didn't want to pay for the tours, but it was pretty cool to see it and see all of the people that still flock to it to get a glimpse. I'll keep you posted though. Last time we were in the Rapid City area, we visited Badlands NP, Minuteman Missile, Mount Rushmore and Crazy Horse. I'd like to go back to Badlands, maybe pop into Wall Drug for a few jackelope jokes, and then Wind Cave, Jewel Cave, and Custer State Park are on the list. No plans to park and tour this time, but might as well drive by Mount Rushmore while we're there. Part of me wants to drive through Deadwood, but not sure it's worth it.
I hope you don't have to have an IV then!!

Wall drug has grown!!! When I was a kid, there was hardly anything there. It was pretty much just one building with a couple of stores and a restaurant. This past summer it was SOOOO much bigger! Restaurants and stores all over the place!! It's become quite the tourist trap! Keystone was a complete disappointment! There was nothing unique anymore. Every store sells the same exact tshirts and half of them are political and/or offensive. It used to be a great place to visit, but we didn't stay long this time because there was just nothing to see. You used to be able to watch them making taffy....that's gone. They had an old time homemade ice cream shop. Now they just have a window. It's good ice cream, but it's not the cute little store where you could watch them making the cones, etc. And parking was a disaster!

Wind Cave and Jewell cave are hard to get spots for if you don't reserve in advance or show up when they first open. But you can buy tickets online at least for Jewel cave...I'm not sure about Wind.

As far as the route, highway 287 from Fort Collins to Laramie is a prettier drive than I25 through Cheyenne. If you DO go through Cheyenne, there's a missile silo tour that was pretty neat....Quebec 01. They also have a botanical garden there that was really pretty. If you go up from either Cheyenne or Laramie on the Eastern side of Wyoming, Fort Laramie is worth a visit....it's near Torrington. Laramie has the Territorial Prison that offers tours on certain days and that was an interesting tour, though the rest is pretty boring. When I was in College, they had kind of made it into a theme park and they had all sorts of entertainment. They built shops and a bar and had shoot-outs and dancers, etc. But they don't do any of that anymore, so the buildings are still there, but that's it. It was a disappointment because I was expecting all the entertainment. But the actual prison is really interesting, if you aren't expecting anything more than just that. The University of Wyoming also has a planetarium that does public shows. We went to one about the Apollo and Artemis I programs that was really cool. And in South Dakota, the Mammoth site in Hot springs is really cool, if you are into natural history. It really depends on what your interests are. If you are into history, then Territorial prison and Fort Laramie are going to be good sites. If you are into more natural stuff, then the badlands, the caves, Mammoth site will be good ones. What month are you going? You'll want to check when Cheyenne Frontier Days, National High Schools Final Rodeo, and Sturgis Motorcycle rally are. Any of those will make hotel vacancies disappear quickly. If you don't book in advance, there won't be anything anywhere near. Finals Rodeo is in Gillette, Wyoming, but people will book as far out as Rapid City South Dakota, and same the other way around for Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. Everything all the way to Gillette will be full during that week. I'm sure you're used to busy traffic situations, so that won't be too bad for you, but I avoid those places like the plague because I grew up in a town without a single stoplight and if you saw 3 cars on the road, it was rush hour. So that kind of traffic for me is anxiety-inducing and I just can't deal with it. I'm kind of jealous....I was just there last Summer, but there's still so much I would love to do again, or things we had to skip. I'd love to go again!
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
Oh no! How scary! I recall your vacation research concerning his food sensitivites. I can't begin to imagine how hard something like this is for him and how rough it's been on you and the rest of the family. I'm so glad the hospital had all kinds of staff that could work with him to help him along and get him to try eating and drinking again. Hopefully he'll continue to make positive strides towards a full recovery.
Thanks. He's still having a hard time with drinking. He has to eat something first to remind himself how to swallow, and THEN he can drink. He can't seem to get the hang of it by itself. And he dribbles a lot down his front when he drinks, but I'm just happy he CAN, even if he has to eat something first. He GUZZLED 3 glasses of milk at breakfast this morning, and then another 3 at lunch. He said he's really thirsty, which I can understand after almost 2 weeks of not being able to drink. So far he hasn't been able to eat anything but the pound cake. We tried hotdogs, but he couldn't get those down. Poor kid....it must be so frustrating to want to eat and to see food you love and not be able to swallow it.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
I hope you don't have to have an IV then!!

Wall drug has grown!!! When I was a kid, there was hardly anything there. It was pretty much just one building with a couple of stores and a restaurant. This past summer it was SOOOO much bigger! Restaurants and stores all over the place!! It's become quite the tourist trap! Keystone was a complete disappointment! There was nothing unique anymore. Every store sells the same exact tshirts and half of them are political and/or offensive. It used to be a great place to visit, but we didn't stay long this time because there was just nothing to see. You used to be able to watch them making taffy....that's gone. They had an old time homemade ice cream shop. Now they just have a window. It's good ice cream, but it's not the cute little store where you could watch them making the cones, etc. And parking was a disaster!

Wind Cave and Jewell cave are hard to get spots for if you don't reserve in advance or show up when they first open. But you can buy tickets online at least for Jewel cave...I'm not sure about Wind.

As far as the route, highway 287 from Fort Collins to Laramie is a prettier drive than I25 through Cheyenne. If you DO go through Cheyenne, there's a missile silo tour that was pretty neat....Quebec 01. They also have a botanical garden there that was really pretty. If you go up from either Cheyenne or Laramie on the Eastern side of Wyoming, Fort Laramie is worth a visit....it's near Torrington. Laramie has the Territorial Prison that offers tours on certain days and that was an interesting tour, though the rest is pretty boring. When I was in College, they had kind of made it into a theme park and they had all sorts of entertainment. They built shops and a bar and had shoot-outs and dancers, etc. But they don't do any of that anymore, so the buildings are still there, but that's it. It was a disappointment because I was expecting all the entertainment. But the actual prison is really interesting, if you aren't expecting anything more than just that. The University of Wyoming also has a planetarium that does public shows. We went to one about the Apollo and Artemis I programs that was really cool. And in South Dakota, the Mammoth site in Hot springs is really cool, if you are into natural history. It really depends on what your interests are. If you are into history, then Territorial prison and Fort Laramie are going to be good sites. If you are into more natural stuff, then the badlands, the caves, Mammoth site will be good ones. What month are you going? You'll want to check when Cheyenne Frontier Days, National High Schools Final Rodeo, and Sturgis Motorcycle rally are. Any of those will make hotel vacancies disappear quickly. If you don't book in advance, there won't be anything anywhere near. Finals Rodeo is in Gillette, Wyoming, but people will book as far out as Rapid City South Dakota, and same the other way around for Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. Everything all the way to Gillette will be full during that week. I'm sure you're used to busy traffic situations, so that won't be too bad for you, but I avoid those places like the plague because I grew up in a town without a single stoplight and if you saw 3 cars on the road, it was rush hour. So that kind of traffic for me is anxiety-inducing and I just can't deal with it. I'm kind of jealous....I was just there last Summer, but there's still so much I would love to do again, or things we had to skip. I'd love to go again!

There's still heat coming off of the finger, but the doctor thinks it's getting better. She had me finish my previously prescribed antibiotics and prescribed something else to piggy back on it.

We skipped it last time because it looked like such a tourist trap and the menu wasn't doing much for us. Now that I've seen all of the jackelope stuff, I kind of want to experience the cheesiness. We stayed in Keystone the last time we were in SD, but I had no prior experience to know of the changes. It was also during Sturgis, so everything was overflowing with bikers. It looked like a neat area, but reminiscent of other small towns outside of national landmarks. The parking situation kept us from even trying. We ate either at the restaurant tied to our inn or closer to Rapid City.

Yes, I've read that both require reservations. It also looks like I can use the Recreation.gov app to book. Wind Cave seems to have openings through mid April and Jewel through late April. I'll have to do something similar for Rocky Mountain NP. At least I've used the app and done these national site bookings before.

I've thought about going north to Laramie, simply because we wanted to show the kids a few college campuses along the way. You never know what they might like or what schools might consider merit based aid. We hadn't discussed stops between pt A and pt B, but I'm going to add this info to my notes in case it works with our plans. I know several of us would likely find the prison interesting. It's only about a 5-6 hour drive, so we'd have time to do things during the drive. Still, sometimes we just drive straight through to just get there and be done traveling. This will be early July, so we're well before Frontier Days and Sturgis. I've already booked a few nights of lodging in Rapid City. The Colorado part is tied to softball, so I've had that booked for a while. Between two massive softball tournaments, a Taylor Swift concert overlapping with dates/locations, and 4th of July...availability was already really limited for the CO portion. Rapid City had a lot of openings, but I usually book with the "book now, pay at check in" clause just in case my plans change as well as complimentary breakfast. So, that sometimes limits my options a little. I had noticed the mammoth site on the map. It was a consideration, especially if everyone decides they're tired of caves. I've heard people say that we may be disappointed after seeing Carlsbad Caverns, but the kids like getting stamps in their book. It's funny you mention traffic. Not that I love traffic, but I'm more prone to freaking out if things are too quiet. Thanks for all the tips!
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Thanks. He's still having a hard time with drinking. He has to eat something first to remind himself how to swallow, and THEN he can drink. He can't seem to get the hang of it by itself. And he dribbles a lot down his front when he drinks, but I'm just happy he CAN, even if he has to eat something first. He GUZZLED 3 glasses of milk at breakfast this morning, and then another 3 at lunch. He said he's really thirsty, which I can understand after almost 2 weeks of not being able to drink. So far he hasn't been able to eat anything but the pound cake. We tried hotdogs, but he couldn't get those down. Poor kid....it must be so frustrating to want to eat and to see food you love and not be able to swallow it.

As long as he's developed a process so he can eat something and consume liquids. I'm sure it's very frustrating, but it's progress. The thirst aspect is a really big deal. Not the same situation, but I have a friend whose dad is in a managed care facility and he's been hospitalized 3x in less than a year for extreme dehydration. I wonder if there are other mushy foods that he might be able to tolerate. I'm sure preexisting food aversions are part of the battle with that, but hopefully he can find some other things to eat if he's not ready for hot dogs.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
There's still heat coming off of the finger, but the doctor thinks it's getting better. She had me finish my previously prescribed antibiotics and prescribed something else to piggy back on it.

We skipped it last time because it looked like such a tourist trap and the menu wasn't doing much for us. Now that I've seen all of the jackelope stuff, I kind of want to experience the cheesiness. We stayed in Keystone the last time we were in SD, but I had no prior experience to know of the changes. It was also during Sturgis, so everything was overflowing with bikers. It looked like a neat area, but reminiscent of other small towns outside of national landmarks. The parking situation kept us from even trying. We ate either at the restaurant tied to our inn or closer to Rapid City.

Yes, I've read that both require reservations. It also looks like I can use the Recreation.gov app to book. Wind Cave seems to have openings through mid April and Jewel through late April. I'll have to do something similar for Rocky Mountain NP. At least I've used the app and done these national site bookings before.

I've thought about going north to Laramie, simply because we wanted to show the kids a few college campuses along the way. You never know what they might like or what schools might consider merit based aid. We hadn't discussed stops between pt A and pt B, but I'm going to add this info to my notes in case it works with our plans. I know several of us would likely find the prison interesting. It's only about a 5-6 hour drive, so we'd have time to do things during the drive. Still, sometimes we just drive straight through to just get there and be done traveling. This will be early July, so we're well before Frontier Days and Sturgis. I've already booked a few nights of lodging in Rapid City. The Colorado part is tied to softball, so I've had that booked for a while. Between two massive softball tournaments, a Taylor Swift concert overlapping with dates/locations, and 4th of July...availability was already really limited for the CO portion. Rapid City had a lot of openings, but I usually book with the "book now, pay at check in" clause just in case my plans change as well as complimentary breakfast. So, that sometimes limits my options a little. I had noticed the mammoth site on the map. It was a consideration, especially if everyone decides they're tired of caves. I've heard people say that we may be disappointed after seeing Carlsbad Caverns, but the kids like getting stamps in their book. It's funny you mention traffic. Not that I love traffic, but I'm more prone to freaking out if things are too quiet. Thanks for all the tips!
Where did you stay in Keystone? A friend of mine owns the Battle Creek Inn. We haven't stayed there because it's a bit pricey for me, but it looks really nice.
There's a great steak restaurant in Hill City called the Alpine, but steak is the ONLY thing on the menu, so if you aren't carnivores, you'll want to skip it. It comes with a baked potato, toast, and a wedge salad. They also have fantastic desserts. It's a very popular place though so if you aren't there when they open the doors, you'll have to wait over an hour for a table. We've been going there since she opened back when I was like 8. She got so popular she had to expand. There used to be an old fashioned ice cream shop in the back, but she ended up needing the space for tables. There's a separate bar and a deck around the building so you can put your name on a waiting list and grab a soda or glass of wine/beer and sit on the patio while you wait. It's always PACKED though. And if I remember correctly, she doesn't take credit cards, but there's an ATM in the bar area so you can pay in cash.
I've never been to Carlsbad caverns, but I think both wind and jewell are worth a visit. We did jewell this past summer and boy was it a workout! Lots of steep stairs.
Do the girls know what they want to study in college? That might make a difference. I know the University of Wyoming supposedly has a great law program and also astronomy... They have a huge telescope out in the boonies where there's very little light pollution. And at least when I went there, the out of state tuition was cheaper than other states' IN state tuition, so that was a huge draw for out of staters, but I don't know if that's still true or not. Another draw is the outdoor activities... It's close to the snowies, so there's skiing and hiking. We went up to Lake Marie last summer. I need to get back to my trip report so I can post the pictures, but it's beautiful. There's a waterfall across the road, and it's a neat little hike. There are some difficult bits, but we managed. It's a bit out of the way of Laramie, but worth it if you are into mountain lakes and whatnot. And there's a scenic lookout tower off the main road and some wildlife. My brother and brother-in-law and his family own the Bear Bottom Grill in Centennial on the road up. E did a work experience thing there for school and there was a doe and her fawn right outside eating grass. It's a cute little place and if you go in the evening, they sometimes have live music.
There's also Veedauwoo if you want a bit more of a challenging hike/Boulder climbing. It has some picnic tables too if you want to save money on food.

Our audition only choir used to have a retreat at the beginning of the year to get to know the new members and we'd go up to a restaurant in the snowies and end the day by going outside and singing in the open air in a little clearing. It echoed beautifully.

Sorry. I sound like a tourist brochure. I love that whole area. I grew up going to the black hills of South Dakota several times a year and went to college at UW and taking breaks up in the snowies. We'd grab a bucket of KFC and drive up to Lake Marie to picnic. So I have some really good memories there.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Where did you stay in Keystone? A friend of mine owns the Battle Creek Inn. We haven't stayed there because it's a bit pricey for me, but it looks really nice.
There's a great steak restaurant in Hill City called the Alpine, but steak is the ONLY thing on the menu, so if you aren't carnivores, you'll want to skip it. It comes with a baked potato, toast, and a wedge salad. They also have fantastic desserts. It's a very popular place though so if you aren't there when they open the doors, you'll have to wait over an hour for a table. We've been going there since she opened back when I was like 8. She got so popular she had to expand. There used to be an old fashioned ice cream shop in the back, but she ended up needing the space for tables. There's a separate bar and a deck around the building so you can put your name on a waiting list and grab a soda or glass of wine/beer and sit on the patio while you wait. It's always PACKED though. And if I remember correctly, she doesn't take credit cards, but there's an ATM in the bar area so you can pay in cash.
I've never been to Carlsbad caverns, but I think both wind and jewell are worth a visit. We did jewell this past summer and boy was it a workout! Lots of steep stairs.
Do the girls know what they want to study in college? That might make a difference. I know the University of Wyoming supposedly has a great law program and also astronomy... They have a huge telescope out in the boonies where there's very little light pollution. And at least when I went there, the out of state tuition was cheaper than other states' IN state tuition, so that was a huge draw for out of staters, but I don't know if that's still true or not. Another draw is the outdoor activities... It's close to the snowies, so there's skiing and hiking. We went up to Lake Marie last summer. I need to get back to my trip report so I can post the pictures, but it's beautiful. There's a waterfall across the road, and it's a neat little hike. There are some difficult bits, but we managed. It's a bit out of the way of Laramie, but worth it if you are into mountain lakes and whatnot. And there's a scenic lookout tower off the main road and some wildlife. My brother and brother-in-law and his family own the Bear Bottom Grill in Centennial on the road up. E did a work experience thing there for school and there was a doe and her fawn right outside eating grass. It's a cute little place and if you go in the evening, they sometimes have live music.
There's also Veedauwoo if you want a bit more of a challenging hike/Boulder climbing. It has some picnic tables too if you want to save money on food.

Our audition only choir used to have a retreat at the beginning of the year to get to know the new members and we'd go up to a restaurant in the snowies and end the day by going outside and singing in the open air in a little clearing. It echoed beautifully.

Sorry. I sound like a tourist brochure. I love that whole area. I grew up going to the black hills of South Dakota several times a year and went to college at UW and taking breaks up in the snowies. We'd grab a bucket of KFC and drive up to Lake Marie to picnic. So I have some really good memories there.

We previously stayed at a place called the Powder House Lodge. https://www.powderhouselodge.com/ The address is in Keystone (they say they are just north of Keystone), but it's not right on top of the super touristy part. I really loved the log cabin feel of the place and the restaurant was very good. It also has some history behind it. I had thought about staying there again, but what I booked in Rapid City is a bit cheaper, better terms, and includes more. I just took a look at the Alpine Inn and if it's convenient with our plans, we may try it. David is more of a ribeye guy, but $15.95 for a 9 oz. bacon wrapped tenderloin dinner with potato and salad is an excellent price. Then again, the lunch menu is full of German specialties that may be more fun. Good to know about the credit card part as well. Thanks for that tip! Does the cave have an elevator or is it all stairs both up and down? Need to prepare accordingly.

As of right now, Kendall wants to be an attorney (undergrad will likely be poli sci) and Sam wants to be a physical/occupational therapist (undergrad likely athletic training). Our high school requires them to have majors so that their high school course work begins preparing them for their anticipated college majors. So, K takes extra history, things involving debate, and criminal/judicial. Sam will be taking more health related courses and will even be able to become an athletic trainer for the high school teams beginning her sophomore year. Both girls have "short" lists of schools where they plan to apply as well as their favorites. Still, we've been trying to see additional colleges in our travels in case they love what they see and it happens to be a better merit aid possibility. Kendall's dream is the University of Texas -Austin, and she's already taking some UT courses in high school (basically a step above AP, proving she can handle UT course expectations). Still, while it's not Ivy/near Ivy selective, it's still very selective and a challenge because of the controversial TX in state admittance requirements. Sam is far more complicated because she wants to play college ball. Pitt is currently at the top of her list. Academics will be the priority in her decisions, but she'll also need to like the softball program if she gets an offer to play. I put "short" in quotes for the college lists because Kendall's list is currently around 15 and Sam needs to have a list of at least 40 for softball recruiting. In any event, I figured it can't hurt to see University of Wyoming just in case there's appeal for Kendall (they don't have a softball team).

It sounds like a really nice area. I don't know how much time we'll have to devote to it since we're really limited, but hopefully we'll get to see some. The choir part would really resonate with K as she is my singer. She got to meet the LSU choir last year and discussed was discussing how many non-music majors participate in the college choral groups. She's debating about music as her minor, but we'll see.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
We previously stayed at a place called the Powder House Lodge. https://www.powderhouselodge.com/ The address is in Keystone (they say they are just north of Keystone), but it's not right on top of the super touristy part. I really loved the log cabin feel of the place and the restaurant was very good. It also has some history behind it. I had thought about staying there again, but what I booked in Rapid City is a bit cheaper, better terms, and includes more. I just took a look at the Alpine Inn and if it's convenient with our plans, we may try it. David is more of a ribeye guy, but $15.95 for a 9 oz. bacon wrapped tenderloin dinner with potato and salad is an excellent price. Then again, the lunch menu is full of German specialties that may be more fun. Good to know about the credit card part as well. Thanks for that tip! Does the cave have an elevator or is it all stairs both up and down? Need to prepare accordingly.

As of right now, Kendall wants to be an attorney (undergrad will likely be poli sci) and Sam wants to be a physical/occupational therapist (undergrad likely athletic training). Our high school requires them to have majors so that their high school course work begins preparing them for their anticipated college majors. So, K takes extra history, things involving debate, and criminal/judicial. Sam will be taking more health related courses and will even be able to become an athletic trainer for the high school teams beginning her sophomore year. Both girls have "short" lists of schools where they plan to apply as well as their favorites. Still, we've been trying to see additional colleges in our travels in case they love what they see and it happens to be a better merit aid possibility. Kendall's dream is the University of Texas -Austin, and she's already taking some UT courses in high school (basically a step above AP, proving she can handle UT course expectations). Still, while it's not Ivy/near Ivy selective, it's still very selective and a challenge because of the controversial TX in state admittance requirements. Sam is far more complicated because she wants to play college ball. Pitt is currently at the top of her list. Academics will be the priority in her decisions, but she'll also need to like the softball program if she gets an offer to play. I put "short" in quotes for the college lists because Kendall's list is currently around 15 and Sam needs to have a list of at least 40 for softball recruiting. In any event, I figured it can't hurt to see University of Wyoming just in case there's appeal for Kendall (they don't have a softball team).

It sounds like a really nice area. I don't know how much time we'll have to devote to it since we're really limited, but hopefully we'll get to see some. The choir part would really resonate with K as she is my singer. She got to meet the LSU choir last year and discussed was discussing how many non-music majors participate in the college choral groups. She's debating about music as her minor, but we'll see.
Yeah, Battle Creek isn't in Keystone proper, either. I think the draw of the ones that are in town there is that you don't have to worry about parking. You can just walk out of your hotel and to whatever shops or restaurants you desire. The big problem with Keystone is that it's another tourist trap and is REALLY expensive compared to every other place. We stayed in Custer and while it wasn't the most luxurious accommodation, it was handy. There was the cutest little bakery that turned out to be a major hot spot for locals at breakfast. They had AMAZING pastries there. It was like....Bakers bakery or something? https://www.bakersbakery.biz/ We could just walk there from our hotel.
The alpine is really good at what they do, since that's the ONLY thing on the dinner menu. They are really good at cooking it, and they can buy in bulk which keeps the price down. I've never had a bad meal there in all the years we've been going. Almost 40 years now. The lady who started it is from Stuttgart, Germany and moved to the US. She's mostly retired now and her kids run it, but apparently she DOES come in once or twice a week. But that's why the lunch menu is full of German options. They are authentic, if that makes a difference to you.

There is an elevator down to the cave and back up, BUT there are a LOT of stairs on the tour. And some of them are pretty steep. You're in pretty good shape, and the kids are athletic, so I don't think you'll have too much of a problem. We all made it through, and my husband doesn't exercise at all, but we were pretty exhausted when we were through. And altitude can wreak havoc, too, but again, we're coming from sea level and we made it. They tell you to wear a jacket as it's only like 45-50 degrees in the cave, but I wore short sleeves and was plenty warm because of all the stairs....I was actually sweating pretty profusely.

Yeah, UW wouldn't have a softball team because the weather isn't conducive to outdoor sports for most of the year. But supposedly our law school is great. I will say that combining music with anything is difficult. Music requires so many classes that it's hard to fit anything else in. I took the max credits every semester and could usually only fit in 1 non-music class each semester, and sometimes it was hard finding one that fit in between the music requirements. All the music requirements are only offered in order...so Written Theory I is ONLY offered in the fall semester. You can't take it in the Spring. And Written Theory II is ONLY offered during the spring, so if you fail one of them, you have to wait a full year to take it again. I'm not sure what the requirements are for a minor, but the Theory for majors is considered a "weed out" course, meaning that it's really difficult and people who aren't real serious students will likely fail. My freshman theory class had a couple of juniors in it who had yet to pass it. That being said, I think you mentioned K is a good student. I was WAY behind, never having had theory, so I didn't know my key signatures or anything, didn't know the difference between major and minor keys, so I had to work really hard, but I came out of it with an A. If you do the work, you'll be fine. But a lot of people go into music thinking it will be easy because all you have to do is sing/play all day and it's a rude awakening when they find out that's not actually the case. One guy ended up switching majors to Engineering because he couldn't pass Theory. And the music department is pretty much dead in the summer vacation. I don't remember there being a summer class option for anything, though I think you could do voice lessons through the summer...and there is a music camp at some point in the summer for high school students. But I'm not sure how music would work there as a minor. My advice would be to maybe just take voice lessons and audition for a choir, and there's a decent non-audition choir, too...you still get the music, but without having all the requirements to fit in. But I also don't know how other schools work and whether it might be easier to combine at another school. The only other program I saw was in Cedar City, Utah because some friends went there. We visited and sat in on a band rehearsal there, watched an opera for their vocal program, and we talked about requirements. It wasn't nearly as rigorous as our program, but the band was pretty bad. Their first chair students couldn't even compete with any of our lower chair students. It wasn't a strong program at all. Their vocal program was a lot stronger than their instrumental program, though.

That's interesting that their school requires a major. Is that standard there? That's the one thing I don't like about the education system here. I love the different levels where you learn at the level that suits you and you can move on once you complete a level. But what I DON'T like is that you have to choose a direction so young!! E doesn't really know what she wants to do, but she is pretty sure it will be something in the science field, so she chose a science profile...actually a double profile, which will allow her to do pretty much ANYTHING in the sciences. But for kids who don't really know what they want to do, it's more difficult to choose. I wish they were given a bit more time to decide.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Yeah, Battle Creek isn't in Keystone proper, either. I think the draw of the ones that are in town there is that you don't have to worry about parking. You can just walk out of your hotel and to whatever shops or restaurants you desire. The big problem with Keystone is that it's another tourist trap and is REALLY expensive compared to every other place. We stayed in Custer and while it wasn't the most luxurious accommodation, it was handy. There was the cutest little bakery that turned out to be a major hot spot for locals at breakfast. They had AMAZING pastries there. It was like....Bakers bakery or something? https://www.bakersbakery.biz/ We could just walk there from our hotel.
The alpine is really good at what they do, since that's the ONLY thing on the dinner menu. They are really good at cooking it, and they can buy in bulk which keeps the price down. I've never had a bad meal there in all the years we've been going. Almost 40 years now. The lady who started it is from Stuttgart, Germany and moved to the US. She's mostly retired now and her kids run it, but apparently she DOES come in once or twice a week. But that's why the lunch menu is full of German options. They are authentic, if that makes a difference to you.

There is an elevator down to the cave and back up, BUT there are a LOT of stairs on the tour. And some of them are pretty steep. You're in pretty good shape, and the kids are athletic, so I don't think you'll have too much of a problem. We all made it through, and my husband doesn't exercise at all, but we were pretty exhausted when we were through. And altitude can wreak havoc, too, but again, we're coming from sea level and we made it. They tell you to wear a jacket as it's only like 45-50 degrees in the cave, but I wore short sleeves and was plenty warm because of all the stairs....I was actually sweating pretty profusely.

Yeah, UW wouldn't have a softball team because the weather isn't conducive to outdoor sports for most of the year. But supposedly our law school is great. I will say that combining music with anything is difficult. Music requires so many classes that it's hard to fit anything else in. I took the max credits every semester and could usually only fit in 1 non-music class each semester, and sometimes it was hard finding one that fit in between the music requirements. All the music requirements are only offered in order...so Written Theory I is ONLY offered in the fall semester. You can't take it in the Spring. And Written Theory II is ONLY offered during the spring, so if you fail one of them, you have to wait a full year to take it again. I'm not sure what the requirements are for a minor, but the Theory for majors is considered a "weed out" course, meaning that it's really difficult and people who aren't real serious students will likely fail. My freshman theory class had a couple of juniors in it who had yet to pass it. That being said, I think you mentioned K is a good student. I was WAY behind, never having had theory, so I didn't know my key signatures or anything, didn't know the difference between major and minor keys, so I had to work really hard, but I came out of it with an A. If you do the work, you'll be fine. But a lot of people go into music thinking it will be easy because all you have to do is sing/play all day and it's a rude awakening when they find out that's not actually the case. One guy ended up switching majors to Engineering because he couldn't pass Theory. And the music department is pretty much dead in the summer vacation. I don't remember there being a summer class option for anything, though I think you could do voice lessons through the summer...and there is a music camp at some point in the summer for high school students. But I'm not sure how music would work there as a minor. My advice would be to maybe just take voice lessons and audition for a choir, and there's a decent non-audition choir, too...you still get the music, but without having all the requirements to fit in. But I also don't know how other schools work and whether it might be easier to combine at another school. The only other program I saw was in Cedar City, Utah because some friends went there. We visited and sat in on a band rehearsal there, watched an opera for their vocal program, and we talked about requirements. It wasn't nearly as rigorous as our program, but the band was pretty bad. Their first chair students couldn't even compete with any of our lower chair students. It wasn't a strong program at all. Their vocal program was a lot stronger than their instrumental program, though.

That's interesting that their school requires a major. Is that standard there? That's the one thing I don't like about the education system here. I love the different levels where you learn at the level that suits you and you can move on once you complete a level. But what I DON'T like is that you have to choose a direction so young!! E doesn't really know what she wants to do, but she is pretty sure it will be something in the science field, so she chose a science profile...actually a double profile, which will allow her to do pretty much ANYTHING in the sciences. But for kids who don't really know what they want to do, it's more difficult to choose. I wish they were given a bit more time to decide.

Last visit was our first time in the area and hours at Mount Rushmore and Crazy Horse were in the plans. So, being in the greater Keystone area seemed logical. I still would like to drive through for this trip, because it's always cool to see those larger than life landmarks, but I really want to focus on things we missed or didn't give enough time to full visit last time. Baker's Bakery could be a lunch possibility since we have breakfast included with our lodging. For the Alpine Inn, we're going to be torn. I told David about the steaks and he's on board, but I really like the lunch menu. I'm a big fan of German food.

As long as there's an elevator up, we should be good. We toured this one cave in Missouri and the walk up was not fun. I remember Carlsbad Cavern had similar clothing advice. It was cool as we got deeper in the cave, but we were constantly moving and caves are typically humid. So, we all shed that recommended layer.

You'd be surprised how many cold weather schools have warm weather sports. Michigan is one of the most successful cold weather programs I can think of. My university is located in one of the snowiest cities in the US. They average nearly 130" of snow each year. They added softball in 2000 after the sport started growing in popularity. Nearly all of the big schools in WY's neighboring states have softball (MT, CO, SD, ID, etc.), so my guess is a lack of resources. I'm sure most of the cold weather schools do something similar to Syracuse. They don't play home games until April, so the girls are 100% travel from early February through the end of March. I've seen them move conference home games to away if they get game canceling snow in April and May. I can't recall which northern school it is, but I know I saw one that converts its indoor turf football field into a softball field for the early parts of the season.

A music minor's requirements are typically much lighter than a major. Kendall should also be going into college with several of her major required freshman/sophomore course credits fulfilled, so she'll have extra space in her schedule. I haven't looked at it for every single school, but a music minor at Duke would be required one course in music theory, one course in more traditional music history, two semesters of performance, and three fun music courses (i.e. history of rock, meet the Beatles, etc). Kendall has thankfully already had a lot of theory since high school and middle school directors have finally gotten the cue to add it to the choral curriculum. My lack of theory destroyed my short experience as a music major. Most schools now mandate that kids have a minor, so I'd like her to pick something she'd enjoy. If not music, surface pattern design would be another minor I could see her enjoying.

I have heard of more districts requiring majors for high school kids. We also have one district here that has specialized high schools for certain interests. Ex Fine Arts, Health Sciences, etc. A high school friend and I have been discussing how different requirements are these days compared to our time in grade school. He was sharing how he never had to take any of the big sciences like bio, chem, and physics. Meanwhile, as a junior, K has had AP for all three and will be getting UT college credits for physics for this year. We also had to have 4 years of foreign language growing up, but my kids only have to have 2. I think they have more generic course paths for kids who haven't figured it out yet...which is probably a lot of kids. I just like that they can get a head start in high school to make sure these are things they really want to pursue.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
Last visit was our first time in the area and hours at Mount Rushmore and Crazy Horse were in the plans. So, being in the greater Keystone area seemed logical. I still would like to drive through for this trip, because it's always cool to see those larger than life landmarks, but I really want to focus on things we missed or didn't give enough time to full visit last time. Baker's Bakery could be a lunch possibility since we have breakfast included with our lodging. For the Alpine Inn, we're going to be torn. I told David about the steaks and he's on board, but I really like the lunch menu. I'm a big fan of German food.

As long as there's an elevator up, we should be good. We toured this one cave in Missouri and the walk up was not fun. I remember Carlsbad Cavern had similar clothing advice. It was cool as we got deeper in the cave, but we were constantly moving and caves are typically humid. So, we all shed that recommended layer.

You'd be surprised how many cold weather schools have warm weather sports. Michigan is one of the most successful cold weather programs I can think of. My university is located in one of the snowiest cities in the US. They average nearly 130" of snow each year. They added softball in 2000 after the sport started growing in popularity. Nearly all of the big schools in WY's neighboring states have softball (MT, CO, SD, ID, etc.), so my guess is a lack of resources. I'm sure most of the cold weather schools do something similar to Syracuse. They don't play home games until April, so the girls are 100% travel from early February through the end of March. I've seen them move conference home games to away if they get game canceling snow in April and May. I can't recall which northern school it is, but I know I saw one that converts its indoor turf football field into a softball field for the early parts of the season.

A music minor's requirements are typically much lighter than a major. Kendall should also be going into college with several of her major required freshman/sophomore course credits fulfilled, so she'll have extra space in her schedule. I haven't looked at it for every single school, but a music minor at Duke would be required one course in music theory, one course in more traditional music history, two semesters of performance, and three fun music courses (i.e. history of rock, meet the Beatles, etc). Kendall has thankfully already had a lot of theory since high school and middle school directors have finally gotten the cue to add it to the choral curriculum. My lack of theory destroyed my short experience as a music major. Most schools now mandate that kids have a minor, so I'd like her to pick something she'd enjoy. If not music, surface pattern design would be another minor I could see her enjoying.

I have heard of more districts requiring majors for high school kids. We also have one district here that has specialized high schools for certain interests. Ex Fine Arts, Health Sciences, etc. A high school friend and I have been discussing how different requirements are these days compared to our time in grade school. He was sharing how he never had to take any of the big sciences like bio, chem, and physics. Meanwhile, as a junior, K has had AP for all three and will be getting UT college credits for physics for this year. We also had to have 4 years of foreign language growing up, but my kids only have to have 2. I think they have more generic course paths for kids who haven't figured it out yet...which is probably a lot of kids. I just like that they can get a head start in high school to make sure these are things they really want to pursue.
The first time we ever went to the Alpine was when it first opened. It had only been open for a couple of weeks, and we went there for lunch. I don't think she had the German menu yet. I remember the only thing was filet mignon, and the problem was that I had only ever heard the word "filet" in the McDonalds commercial: "Filet of fish, a hamburger, a cheeseburger, a happy meal" so I thought "filet" meant fish. I didn't like fish, and my mom had a habit of lying to me about food to get me to eat things she knew I wouldn't like, or not telling me what something was. New foods were scary to me, because I couldn't be sure whether I would like it, and I knew my mom would force me to eat it if I ordered it, whether I liked it or not. "You ordered it, I'm not paying for food you don't eat!" So I refused to order anything, because I thought for sure it would be fish and my mom would make me eat it, and then I'd get in trouble for gagging or making faces, or whatever reaction I had. So my mom finally just said fine, I could starve, because she wasn't going to order one later once I saw it wasn't fish, either. We were the only people there, so I couldn't just look at someone else's plate. So the first time I went there, Wally (the owner) made me a frankfurter, I think....and of course then my mom and my brother get these beautiful steaks. So the first time I went there, I either didn't eat, or I ate a frankfurter. It didn't take long before word spread about the incredible deal it was, and the next time we went there, we had to wait 45 minutes for a table, where the first time we had been the only customers.

What do you mean when you say an "elevator up"? Like I said, there's the elevator that takes you down and then back up at the end of the tour, but there are a lot of stairs on the actual tour, many of them going up. I was pretty out of breath by the time we got back to the elevators.

I don't even know if Wyoming offers music as a minor. I never knew anyone who was minoring in it, but we didn't have any of the "fun" music courses like you mentioned. We had Written Theory I-IV, Aural theory I-IV, historical survey (music history), World's music, and then depending on whether you were an education major or a performance major, you might have classes about specific genres, or classes to learn how to play and teach every instrument. And we had our private lessons, and then a performance class where all you do is watch performances, but you don't get credit for that class and you have to take it every semester. And of course ensembles. World's music was the closest to a "Fun" one that a lot of non-majors took because it was a humanities, Writing level 3 or 4, global studies level 3 or 4, and I think something else too...it covered a LOT of bases. So kids could knock out a ton of requirements with one class. But that was studying different kinds of music around the world, like gamelan music from Indonesia, kabuki theater from Japan, etc. UW had their own Gamelan ensemble. No idea if they still do....if Rod Garnett is still there, they probably do. But we didn't really have anything like history of rock and roll. It was pretty much traditional music history.

Univerities here are so different. Universities are specialised to the "major", though there really isn't such a thing as a "major" so much. You just study whatever you want to do as a career, but you don't have any of the general courses like we do in the US. You do those in junior high, then you choose a general direction, like the arts, or science, social studies and you take the courses that relate to those general areas. And here, only the top level can go to university, so like, the top 10% of students. Everyone else goes to more like community colleges or trade schools, not universities, and those programs are geared to your chosen field. You don't get much outside of your field. You won't have to take math or science if you go into music. You won't have to take humanities if you go into Engineering. You only do the broad general studies in junior high/underclassmen years to decide which direction you want to take. That's why E had like 15 or 16 classes in what would be her freshman year....she had to take every subject offered so she was exposed to a little of everything and then decide what she was most interested in. Now her classes are almost all science and math related, except she DOES have a religions class, and she has English, French, and Dutch. She dropped German. But she has Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Math B (the highest level), English, Dutch, French, Design and Research Technology, Religion, and PE. She's looking at universities now, and they are all science universities. She won't have to do history or languages in college. She's already past the "Generic" classes part of her education... Starting in their sophomore year at the highest level, they concentrate on their future career subjects. In the lower levels, they only do the general subjects in junior high, because they only do 4 years of secondary education and graduate high school at 16. We have no programs here to get college credit in high school. But it's hard for kids who don't really know what they want to do. They have to focus on ONE area so young and they can't change their minds once they've chosen, because if you are doing a science profile, you don't take social studies. But if you decide that science isn't for you later and you'd prefer to study history, too bad. You can't go back.

One of E's ex-friends had always wanted to be a police officer and had planned to do the culture and social studies profile...that fit. But at the last minute, she decided to do the same profile as E and their friend Dimphy, I think probably because she was expecting to be able to piggyback off of them. She never did the homework and was always asking to copy. She couldn't do that if she was taking different classes than them. So I THINK she changed, hoping that they would do the work and she could just skate by without doing much and then have them explain everything before a test so she could do just enough to pass. But a month into their chosen profile, she was already failing so spectacularly because Dimphy and E wouldn't do the work for her or let her copy, and she had no understanding or interest in the subjects that were required, that they let her switch her profile to the easier science one. Even that, she failed and had to go down a level AND redo her sophomore year. And they had to make a major exception to let her change to that other profile. As a rule, you can't switch once you've started. They only let her because she was doing SO badly....like, she had less than 20% in every class. And even then, she couldn't change to the profile she had planned to do in the beginning. She could only change to the easier of the 2 science ones, because the rest of the classes were too different and she'd have to catch up the first part of the school year in all those subjects. So she wasn't allowed to. I HOPE that since she had to redo the whole year and go down a level and was basically restarting her profile, that she was able to change to a profile that suit her better. And I hope she had the insight to ask to do that. But that's the issue I have with the school here is that once you START, you can't change direction if you find out it's not what you want. She pretty much dropped her entire friend group after she switched profiles. I think she was mad at them for not doing the work for her, and she got into the wrong crowd and started smoking, both pot and cigarettes, and drinking, and Dimphy and E's friend group isn't into any of that, so E has no idea what she's doing now. But it's kind of sad...maybe if she hadn't had to choose a profile at such a young age, she would have had more insight and would have chosen better.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
The first time we ever went to the Alpine was when it first opened. It had only been open for a couple of weeks, and we went there for lunch. I don't think she had the German menu yet. I remember the only thing was filet mignon, and the problem was that I had only ever heard the word "filet" in the McDonalds commercial: "Filet of fish, a hamburger, a cheeseburger, a happy meal" so I thought "filet" meant fish. I didn't like fish, and my mom had a habit of lying to me about food to get me to eat things she knew I wouldn't like, or not telling me what something was. New foods were scary to me, because I couldn't be sure whether I would like it, and I knew my mom would force me to eat it if I ordered it, whether I liked it or not. "You ordered it, I'm not paying for food you don't eat!" So I refused to order anything, because I thought for sure it would be fish and my mom would make me eat it, and then I'd get in trouble for gagging or making faces, or whatever reaction I had. So my mom finally just said fine, I could starve, because she wasn't going to order one later once I saw it wasn't fish, either. We were the only people there, so I couldn't just look at someone else's plate. So the first time I went there, Wally (the owner) made me a frankfurter, I think....and of course then my mom and my brother get these beautiful steaks. So the first time I went there, I either didn't eat, or I ate a frankfurter. It didn't take long before word spread about the incredible deal it was, and the next time we went there, we had to wait 45 minutes for a table, where the first time we had been the only customers.

What do you mean when you say an "elevator up"? Like I said, there's the elevator that takes you down and then back up at the end of the tour, but there are a lot of stairs on the actual tour, many of them going up. I was pretty out of breath by the time we got back to the elevators.

I don't even know if Wyoming offers music as a minor. I never knew anyone who was minoring in it, but we didn't have any of the "fun" music courses like you mentioned. We had Written Theory I-IV, Aural theory I-IV, historical survey (music history), World's music, and then depending on whether you were an education major or a performance major, you might have classes about specific genres, or classes to learn how to play and teach every instrument. And we had our private lessons, and then a performance class where all you do is watch performances, but you don't get credit for that class and you have to take it every semester. And of course ensembles. World's music was the closest to a "Fun" one that a lot of non-majors took because it was a humanities, Writing level 3 or 4, global studies level 3 or 4, and I think something else too...it covered a LOT of bases. So kids could knock out a ton of requirements with one class. But that was studying different kinds of music around the world, like gamelan music from Indonesia, kabuki theater from Japan, etc. UW had their own Gamelan ensemble. No idea if they still do....if Rod Garnett is still there, they probably do. But we didn't really have anything like history of rock and roll. It was pretty much traditional music history.

Univerities here are so different. Universities are specialised to the "major", though there really isn't such a thing as a "major" so much. You just study whatever you want to do as a career, but you don't have any of the general courses like we do in the US. You do those in junior high, then you choose a general direction, like the arts, or science, social studies and you take the courses that relate to those general areas. And here, only the top level can go to university, so like, the top 10% of students. Everyone else goes to more like community colleges or trade schools, not universities, and those programs are geared to your chosen field. You don't get much outside of your field. You won't have to take math or science if you go into music. You won't have to take humanities if you go into Engineering. You only do the broad general studies in junior high/underclassmen years to decide which direction you want to take. That's why E had like 15 or 16 classes in what would be her freshman year....she had to take every subject offered so she was exposed to a little of everything and then decide what she was most interested in. Now her classes are almost all science and math related, except she DOES have a religions class, and she has English, French, and Dutch. She dropped German. But she has Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Math B (the highest level), English, Dutch, French, Design and Research Technology, Religion, and PE. She's looking at universities now, and they are all science universities. She won't have to do history or languages in college. She's already past the "Generic" classes part of her education... Starting in their sophomore year at the highest level, they concentrate on their future career subjects. In the lower levels, they only do the general subjects in junior high, because they only do 4 years of secondary education and graduate high school at 16. We have no programs here to get college credit in high school. But it's hard for kids who don't really know what they want to do. They have to focus on ONE area so young and they can't change their minds once they've chosen, because if you are doing a science profile, you don't take social studies. But if you decide that science isn't for you later and you'd prefer to study history, too bad. You can't go back.

One of E's ex-friends had always wanted to be a police officer and had planned to do the culture and social studies profile...that fit. But at the last minute, she decided to do the same profile as E and their friend Dimphy, I think probably because she was expecting to be able to piggyback off of them. She never did the homework and was always asking to copy. She couldn't do that if she was taking different classes than them. So I THINK she changed, hoping that they would do the work and she could just skate by without doing much and then have them explain everything before a test so she could do just enough to pass. But a month into their chosen profile, she was already failing so spectacularly because Dimphy and E wouldn't do the work for her or let her copy, and she had no understanding or interest in the subjects that were required, that they let her switch her profile to the easier science one. Even that, she failed and had to go down a level AND redo her sophomore year. And they had to make a major exception to let her change to that other profile. As a rule, you can't switch once you've started. They only let her because she was doing SO badly....like, she had less than 20% in every class. And even then, she couldn't change to the profile she had planned to do in the beginning. She could only change to the easier of the 2 science ones, because the rest of the classes were too different and she'd have to catch up the first part of the school year in all those subjects. So she wasn't allowed to. I HOPE that since she had to redo the whole year and go down a level and was basically restarting her profile, that she was able to change to a profile that suit her better. And I hope she had the insight to ask to do that. But that's the issue I have with the school here is that once you START, you can't change direction if you find out it's not what you want. She pretty much dropped her entire friend group after she switched profiles. I think she was mad at them for not doing the work for her, and she got into the wrong crowd and started smoking, both pot and cigarettes, and drinking, and Dimphy and E's friend group isn't into any of that, so E has no idea what she's doing now. But it's kind of sad...maybe if she hadn't had to choose a profile at such a young age, she would have had more insight and would have chosen better.

That's sort of bittersweet with the filet vs. Filet-o-Fish. It's a such a sweet innocent child sort of thing to hear the word "filet" and associate it with something like the McDonald's sandwich, but to not clarify for you so that you could eat/order without fear is sad. I guess some was long-term frustration with eating struggles, but a simple "it's beef steak, not fish" would have been nice. At least a good quality frankfurter would have been nice.

I was just thinking about it compared to other caves we've visited. Ex. Carlsbad gives you the option of elevator and/or stairs. We chose to take the "trail" down from the natural entrance (1.25 miles/750 ft down), another 1.2 miles of trail on the cave floor, and then took the elevator back up. On the flipside, we've been to caves that are entirely stairs up and down (about 100 feet up and down in MO). In doing some digging, it looks like Wind is 300 steps down/.66 miles and an elevator back to the top if you do the natural entrance tour. For Jewel, it looks like it's the scenic tour that's elevator down, elevator up, and half mile of 700 up/down stair steps in between, but we could do the discovery tour if we wanted a shorter experience. If we can see a decent amount of the calcite crystals in the discovery tour, I'd probably skip the scenic tour...since I'm really looking for something beyond cave bacon.

More schools have been trying to add "fun" courses to attract students. I know Syracuse offered a music minor, but I never asked anyone about the specifics. I just remember we'd get music minors every now in our courses and it was nice to see some difference faces. SU offers majors in general music, composition, education, music industry, performance and sound recording, so there was a decent variety in courses. While I don't remember them outwardly offering anything as fun, there were a lot of "selected topic" courses where there was room for fun. Even my general music history course was spiced up to keep it fun. I remember going to a chili night at his house where we all watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail and stopped it now and then to discuss Gregorian chant and its featuring in the movie.

How do they handle things that would be an advanced degree in the US? Ex. K wants to go into law, but in the US she'd have to do 4 years of undergrad, take the LSATs and then apply to law school. Are programs just designed to take you from pt A to Z from the beginning rather than having to go through the hurdles of getting into school for an advanced degree? That's interesting that there's also no turning back once they've chosen. Over here, you're always hearing about people reinventing themselves and going back to school for something vastly different from their original study concentrations. Heck, we've already told the kids that it's perfectly acceptable if they decide they like something else. Many employers even offer tuition reimbursement programs...some are strictly for degrees tied to work, but others will still cover a portion for any kind of collegiate endeavors.

It's a sad story. This girl did some of this to herself by not wanting to do the work. There are some kids who don't do the work because they don't get it, but there are also kids who don't do the work because they just don't want to. You hate seeing a kid fail, but your child certainly shouldn't have to do her work to keep her afloat. Her refusal to do the work sort of goes hand in hand with her gravitating to the bad kids and their habits. We see that a lot here with the kids who choose "on level" courses. When I was in school we had levels 1-4 and kids who were levels 1-3 were usually the college minded kids. You also often saw kids who may have been level 1 some things and level 2 others if it was a subject where they struggled. Here, you're usually either AP or on-level. It's really rare to see a kid in the mix of these classes, although kids who have coasted in on-level in 9th and 10th grade seem to add some APs in junior year since it's looked at as the most important year. That's not to say that on-level kids won't go to college, but they are mixed in with a lot of the bad kids. The rigidity of the system over there has a bit of a dystopian society feeling. Like you are put into the box you choose at this young age and you could fail in life if you don't stick to that box. It may also be me applying American thinking to some of it. I'm sure if this is a long-standing part of the educational culture, many kids have been brought up with this process in mind.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
That's sort of bittersweet with the filet vs. Filet-o-Fish. It's a such a sweet innocent child sort of thing to hear the word "filet" and associate it with something like the McDonald's sandwich, but to not clarify for you so that you could eat/order without fear is sad. I guess some was long-term frustration with eating struggles, but a simple "it's beef steak, not fish" would have been nice. At least a good quality frankfurter would have been nice.

I was just thinking about it compared to other caves we've visited. Ex. Carlsbad gives you the option of elevator and/or stairs. We chose to take the "trail" down from the natural entrance (1.25 miles/750 ft down), another 1.2 miles of trail on the cave floor, and then took the elevator back up. On the flipside, we've been to caves that are entirely stairs up and down (about 100 feet up and down in MO). In doing some digging, it looks like Wind is 300 steps down/.66 miles and an elevator back to the top if you do the natural entrance tour. For Jewel, it looks like it's the scenic tour that's elevator down, elevator up, and half mile of 700 up/down stair steps in between, but we could do the discovery tour if we wanted a shorter experience. If we can see a decent amount of the calcite crystals in the discovery tour, I'd probably skip the scenic tour...since I'm really looking for something beyond cave bacon.

More schools have been trying to add "fun" courses to attract students. I know Syracuse offered a music minor, but I never asked anyone about the specifics. I just remember we'd get music minors every now in our courses and it was nice to see some difference faces. SU offers majors in general music, composition, education, music industry, performance and sound recording, so there was a decent variety in courses. While I don't remember them outwardly offering anything as fun, there were a lot of "selected topic" courses where there was room for fun. Even my general music history course was spiced up to keep it fun. I remember going to a chili night at his house where we all watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail and stopped it now and then to discuss Gregorian chant and its featuring in the movie.

How do they handle things that would be an advanced degree in the US? Ex. K wants to go into law, but in the US she'd have to do 4 years of undergrad, take the LSATs and then apply to law school. Are programs just designed to take you from pt A to Z from the beginning rather than having to go through the hurdles of getting into school for an advanced degree? That's interesting that there's also no turning back once they've chosen. Over here, you're always hearing about people reinventing themselves and going back to school for something vastly different from their original study concentrations. Heck, we've already told the kids that it's perfectly acceptable if they decide they like something else. Many employers even offer tuition reimbursement programs...some are strictly for degrees tied to work, but others will still cover a portion for any kind of collegiate endeavors.

It's a sad story. This girl did some of this to herself by not wanting to do the work. There are some kids who don't do the work because they don't get it, but there are also kids who don't do the work because they just don't want to. You hate seeing a kid fail, but your child certainly shouldn't have to do her work to keep her afloat. Her refusal to do the work sort of goes hand in hand with her gravitating to the bad kids and their habits. We see that a lot here with the kids who choose "on level" courses. When I was in school we had levels 1-4 and kids who were levels 1-3 were usually the college minded kids. You also often saw kids who may have been level 1 some things and level 2 others if it was a subject where they struggled. Here, you're usually either AP or on-level. It's really rare to see a kid in the mix of these classes, although kids who have coasted in on-level in 9th and 10th grade seem to add some APs in junior year since it's looked at as the most important year. That's not to say that on-level kids won't go to college, but they are mixed in with a lot of the bad kids. The rigidity of the system over there has a bit of a dystopian society feeling. Like you are put into the box you choose at this young age and you could fail in life if you don't stick to that box. It may also be me applying American thinking to some of it. I'm sure if this is a long-standing part of the educational culture, many kids have been brought up with this process in mind.
Oh, my mom DID tell me it was beef steak, but I had never heard it called anything but "steak" before, and my mom had a habit of lying to me about food. She hated that I was picky, and she could be really harsh. I think I have sensitive tastebuds...I picked up on flavors that other people didn't. Like, I could taste the difference between real mashed potatoes and instant, though my mom swore there was no difference and insisted I must have been going through the garbage and seen the package. Same with game meat. My family (minus me) liked to hunt, and I HATE the taste of Antelope meat. It's so gross, but my mom couldn't taste a difference between that and beef. So she would try to hide it....like she'd take half beef, and half antelope and mix it together, and then be furious when I said it tasted like antelope. She said she couldn't taste the difference and I must have seen her doing it. She never believed I could actually taste things. So she would lie about what was in things, hoping I wouldn't notice, then be angry when I did. I couldn't trust her telling me that Filet Mignon was just bacon wrapped beef steak, because why didn't they just call it steak? It must be some kind of steak that she knew I wouldn't like, and was trying to trick me into ordering it, because the rule was that if you order it, you eat it. If you forget to order the burger without ketchup and mustard, or they forget to leave those things off, we don't make a fuss. We eat what's put in front of us, because people worked hard to make it and it's rude and disrespectful to make faces or not clean our plates. At home, just not eating at all wasn't an option. I had to sit at the table until I cleaned my plate of everything she gave me. But in a restaurant, as long as I didn't order it, she couldn't make me eat it. But if I ordered it, and it wasn't what I thought it was, I still had to clean my plate. So it was safer just to not order it that time. She and my brother loved seafood and liked going to seafood restaurants, knowing I wouldn't find anything on the menu. I went hungry a lot when we were traveling. Sometimes, I think she purposely picked restaurants she knew I wouldn't be able to eat at....it was her way of punishing me for what she saw as "bad behavior". She was "teaching me a lesson".

Did you watch the videos? When I was doing research for our trip, they had a video about each type of tour so you could see what it was like. The discovery tour didn't seem like you actually got to see anything...it's mostly just a lecture, if I remember correctly. Like, they take you to a platform, but you don't really ENTER the cave or get to see anything. But then the other tours were much more intense and I couldn't physically do those, and A would never have dared. So we just did the Scenic. But the videos were great.

Ok, I'm not POSITIVE on this because I haven't been through the whole educational system here, but my understanding is that it depends on your high school type, etc. For example, my husband is a Mechanical Engineer. He went to University to get his degree, and when we lived in the US, he had an equivalency done that said his standard university engineering degree was equivalent to a masters degree in the US. But the company he works for takes on interns now and again, and some of them never went to University....they are working on an engineering degree, but not NEARLY as high a level as what my husband has. There are kids who did the lower levels of high school and then went to one of the community college/trade school type schools for the engineering degree. It's kind of the difference between getting an associates, a bachelors, or a masters degree. University gets you a much higher level, but only the top 10-20% can even go to university. You CAN NOT go to university without completing the highest level of high school, OR getting the lower level degree first and then moving up. So if you did a lower level high school, you'd have to either stream through in high school untill you have the highest level there, OR you'd have to get your associates degree, then go on to get your bachelors degree, and THEN you could go to a university. So for law, you'd have to do one of the social studies based profiles at the highest level of high school, then go to a law university. OR, if she did a lower level of high school, they have different profiles, and I'm not sure what those are, because both my kids go to the higher 2 levels. But in the lower levels, they'd have to take whatever the closest profile is to a social studies one, then either move up to the next level after getting their diploma until they have the highest level, or they'd have to go to a community college and get the lower degree in law and then keep moving up until they got to university level. You can still get there, it just takes longer. But, my understanding is also that as long as you pass your classes for whatever profile you choose, you can do the program you want. There's no such thing as GPA or competing for spots like in the US. So even if you got 55% in every one of your classes, you still qualify for the program just as much as the kid who got 98% in all their classes. They don't pick and choose the best. As long as you have the diploma, they won't turn you down. If they have too many applicants, they do a lottery system. So having the best grades doesn't help you at all. Your grades don't matter. Passing is passing. No one has to worry about whether they have enough extra curriculars, or doing community service hours to beef up their resume, or test scores. As long as you have the high school diploma required, that's all you need. And there's no financial aid like in the US, so kids aren't competing with each other for anything.

Yes, it's sad for the girl that she really didn't care about her own future. She was in the highest level of school. That's a great position to be in....you are completely unlimited in your options with that level. You can do anything you want to do. Lower levels have to go a lot longer to have those options. Sometimes it happens that something knocks you down. E also has another friend who had to redo a year and quit the dual immersion, but that wasn't because she wasn't applying herself. She was trying so hard, but was really struggling and in the end she made the choice to redo a year because she knew if she kept going, it was only going to get harder. And another girl had to go down a level, because she's dyslexic and couldn't keep up with all the reading and languages. So it's extra sad that this girl COULD have had all these options if she'd just done the work. She just kept making bad decision after bad decision. She was already struggling in their 2nd year, when corona hit. They let the kids who were failing decide themselves if they thought they could handle the next year or if they wanted to repeat it because they figured a lot of the kids would have been fine if not for remote learning. She chose to go on. Then in the third year, they let the kids who were failing drop a couple of classes if they weren't going to take that class in the 4th year, OR redo the year. She honestly shouldn't have gone on to 4th year. She barely barely passed by the skin of her teeth, and only because she was able to drop a few grades from those classes. In a normal school year without adjustments for covid, she would have failed and had to redo the year. She should have repeated the 3rd, but again, I think she thought E and Dimphy would drag her along and she'd just piggyback off them. She couldn't do that if they were a year ahead. So she chose to do the profile she wasn't good at, and just completely bombed it, and then she dumped her friends in favor of the party crowd. Part of that could also be her home life, because her parents are divorced and she has SO many little siblings from both parents, and her dad is an absolute idiot. He won't let her light a candle in her room unless she opens a window because he thinks that single candle will suck all the oxygen out of the room and she'll die of asphyxiation. When she would get sick, he wouldn't let her get tested for covid because he said that the test swabs released "nano-particles" into the brain that change your DNA. And her dad and stepmom are always fighting and then she threatens to take their kid away (the girl's little half-sister), and he'd never see her again, which by extension, the older siblings would also never see her again. And then the stepmom got pregnant again, and neither dad nor stepmom wanted another baby...and this girl is always having to babysit. E went over to their house once so they could study, and the stepmom just sat on the couch smoking a cigarette and scrolling through her phone. Didn't even look up when the girl introduced E to her, and did nothing when the little sister kept bugging them while they were trying to study. Just, completely absent and neglectful. So I feel really bad for her, but it's sad that she COULD have done so much more. E said her mom is much more involved and responsible than the dad and stepmom, and I THINK the girl primarily lives with her mom where she has more stability, but she's not taking advantage of that stability. It's just sad all the way around.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Oh, my mom DID tell me it was beef steak, but I had never heard it called anything but "steak" before, and my mom had a habit of lying to me about food. She hated that I was picky, and she could be really harsh. I think I have sensitive tastebuds...I picked up on flavors that other people didn't. Like, I could taste the difference between real mashed potatoes and instant, though my mom swore there was no difference and insisted I must have been going through the garbage and seen the package. Same with game meat. My family (minus me) liked to hunt, and I HATE the taste of Antelope meat. It's so gross, but my mom couldn't taste a difference between that and beef. So she would try to hide it....like she'd take half beef, and half antelope and mix it together, and then be furious when I said it tasted like antelope. She said she couldn't taste the difference and I must have seen her doing it. She never believed I could actually taste things. So she would lie about what was in things, hoping I wouldn't notice, then be angry when I did. I couldn't trust her telling me that Filet Mignon was just bacon wrapped beef steak, because why didn't they just call it steak? It must be some kind of steak that she knew I wouldn't like, and was trying to trick me into ordering it, because the rule was that if you order it, you eat it. If you forget to order the burger without ketchup and mustard, or they forget to leave those things off, we don't make a fuss. We eat what's put in front of us, because people worked hard to make it and it's rude and disrespectful to make faces or not clean our plates. At home, just not eating at all wasn't an option. I had to sit at the table until I cleaned my plate of everything she gave me. But in a restaurant, as long as I didn't order it, she couldn't make me eat it. But if I ordered it, and it wasn't what I thought it was, I still had to clean my plate. So it was safer just to not order it that time. She and my brother loved seafood and liked going to seafood restaurants, knowing I wouldn't find anything on the menu. I went hungry a lot when we were traveling. Sometimes, I think she purposely picked restaurants she knew I wouldn't be able to eat at....it was her way of punishing me for what she saw as "bad behavior". She was "teaching me a lesson".

Did you watch the videos? When I was doing research for our trip, they had a video about each type of tour so you could see what it was like. The discovery tour didn't seem like you actually got to see anything...it's mostly just a lecture, if I remember correctly. Like, they take you to a platform, but you don't really ENTER the cave or get to see anything. But then the other tours were much more intense and I couldn't physically do those, and A would never have dared. So we just did the Scenic. But the videos were great.

Ok, I'm not POSITIVE on this because I haven't been through the whole educational system here, but my understanding is that it depends on your high school type, etc. For example, my husband is a Mechanical Engineer. He went to University to get his degree, and when we lived in the US, he had an equivalency done that said his standard university engineering degree was equivalent to a masters degree in the US. But the company he works for takes on interns now and again, and some of them never went to University....they are working on an engineering degree, but not NEARLY as high a level as what my husband has. There are kids who did the lower levels of high school and then went to one of the community college/trade school type schools for the engineering degree. It's kind of the difference between getting an associates, a bachelors, or a masters degree. University gets you a much higher level, but only the top 10-20% can even go to university. You CAN NOT go to university without completing the highest level of high school, OR getting the lower level degree first and then moving up. So if you did a lower level high school, you'd have to either stream through in high school untill you have the highest level there, OR you'd have to get your associates degree, then go on to get your bachelors degree, and THEN you could go to a university. So for law, you'd have to do one of the social studies based profiles at the highest level of high school, then go to a law university. OR, if she did a lower level of high school, they have different profiles, and I'm not sure what those are, because both my kids go to the higher 2 levels. But in the lower levels, they'd have to take whatever the closest profile is to a social studies one, then either move up to the next level after getting their diploma until they have the highest level, or they'd have to go to a community college and get the lower degree in law and then keep moving up until they got to university level. You can still get there, it just takes longer. But, my understanding is also that as long as you pass your classes for whatever profile you choose, you can do the program you want. There's no such thing as GPA or competing for spots like in the US. So even if you got 55% in every one of your classes, you still qualify for the program just as much as the kid who got 98% in all their classes. They don't pick and choose the best. As long as you have the diploma, they won't turn you down. If they have too many applicants, they do a lottery system. So having the best grades doesn't help you at all. Your grades don't matter. Passing is passing. No one has to worry about whether they have enough extra curriculars, or doing community service hours to beef up their resume, or test scores. As long as you have the high school diploma required, that's all you need. And there's no financial aid like in the US, so kids aren't competing with each other for anything.

Yes, it's sad for the girl that she really didn't care about her own future. She was in the highest level of school. That's a great position to be in....you are completely unlimited in your options with that level. You can do anything you want to do. Lower levels have to go a lot longer to have those options. Sometimes it happens that something knocks you down. E also has another friend who had to redo a year and quit the dual immersion, but that wasn't because she wasn't applying herself. She was trying so hard, but was really struggling and in the end she made the choice to redo a year because she knew if she kept going, it was only going to get harder. And another girl had to go down a level, because she's dyslexic and couldn't keep up with all the reading and languages. So it's extra sad that this girl COULD have had all these options if she'd just done the work. She just kept making bad decision after bad decision. She was already struggling in their 2nd year, when corona hit. They let the kids who were failing decide themselves if they thought they could handle the next year or if they wanted to repeat it because they figured a lot of the kids would have been fine if not for remote learning. She chose to go on. Then in the third year, they let the kids who were failing drop a couple of classes if they weren't going to take that class in the 4th year, OR redo the year. She honestly shouldn't have gone on to 4th year. She barely barely passed by the skin of her teeth, and only because she was able to drop a few grades from those classes. In a normal school year without adjustments for covid, she would have failed and had to redo the year. She should have repeated the 3rd, but again, I think she thought E and Dimphy would drag her along and she'd just piggyback off them. She couldn't do that if they were a year ahead. So she chose to do the profile she wasn't good at, and just completely bombed it, and then she dumped her friends in favor of the party crowd. Part of that could also be her home life, because her parents are divorced and she has SO many little siblings from both parents, and her dad is an absolute idiot. He won't let her light a candle in her room unless she opens a window because he thinks that single candle will suck all the oxygen out of the room and she'll die of asphyxiation. When she would get sick, he wouldn't let her get tested for covid because he said that the test swabs released "nano-particles" into the brain that change your DNA. And her dad and stepmom are always fighting and then she threatens to take their kid away (the girl's little half-sister), and he'd never see her again, which by extension, the older siblings would also never see her again. And then the stepmom got pregnant again, and neither dad nor stepmom wanted another baby...and this girl is always having to babysit. E went over to their house once so they could study, and the stepmom just sat on the couch smoking a cigarette and scrolling through her phone. Didn't even look up when the girl introduced E to her, and did nothing when the little sister kept bugging them while they were trying to study. Just, completely absent and neglectful. So I feel really bad for her, but it's sad that she COULD have done so much more. E said her mom is much more involved and responsible than the dad and stepmom, and I THINK the girl primarily lives with her mom where she has more stability, but she's not taking advantage of that stability. It's just sad all the way around.

I probably wouldn’t have thought any differently if someone said ‘filet’ to me as a kid. My dad did a lot of fishing and I associated the word with his filet knife/fileting fish. Steak wasn't usually on the menu in my home and wasn't something I discovered until my mid 20s. I also have a palate that picks up food differences. Boxed mashed potatoes, gamey meats, boxed cake mix, etc. are all things where I can taste clear differences. My grandparents normally required us to clean our plates, but that was typical of the Great Depression generation. My parents were more flexible and had a rule called “no thank-you” helpings. My mom’s family was also really big on dining etiquette, especially for dining out and dinner parties, so there was no going without eating or making faces. I doubt we were perfect, but there were definitely eating and behavioral expectations. During our kids’ menu days, we also were usually pushed to order non-kiddie foods. My dad has also always been a very creative cook, so it taught us from an early age that we should try everything (even when I was 6 and he made octopus), which made us more adventurous eaters. The difference is that nobody lied to us and there were scenarios where we could get by with that “no thank-you” helping…which was usually 2 smaller bites. Our family Hanukkah feast was always this dinner party (15-25 people) with a big spread from a Jewish deli. I have never liked chopped liver, but I went through enough no thank-you helpings and ate enough of the other more unique traditional foods to eventually be relieved of this no thank-you requirement. The funniest one was sliced tongue. It tasted so good and I still love it, but as a little kid, I thought everyone was joking. Like seriously…who would serve tongue?!?! I was about 14 the first time I saw a full beef tongue in a deli and realized that they’d been telling the truth all along.

I’ve watched a ton of videos. I’ve seen one of the really crazy tours…where you have to fit into this stone testing thing on the ground. That’s definitely not for us. Our time is going to be really limited and I see us doing more sampling than intensive touring, so the discovery tour may be just fine. We’ll see. I generally prefer above ground parks/sites and two caves may be a bit much. So, we may end up just going with Wind.

The differences are all very interesting…especially not focusing on percentile/ranks. While I know it’s still a lot of work, it sounds like there’s a lot less stress and superfluous courses, clubs and extracurriculars to pad your resume. That focus could prepare them much better for their intended fields/careers compared to the US. The financial aid game is just one more piece of the stress puzzle. It also is interesting that there may be a couple of different pathways to the same profession over there…even though one may take longer. My recent frustration probably isn’t even an issue over there. While I knew different US high schools were rated better than others and that it can heavily impact admissions, I’ve also seen people playing this game in a different direction. Part of why we picked up and moved across town was to get the kids into a high school with a better college prep rating. It’s why my parents picked the town where I grew up...high tax rate, but phenomenal schools. While the girls’ high school is still a very good school, it’s fallen in rank since we moved. That’s frustrating, but I’m also seeing people who have gone the complete opposite direction and petitioned to get their kids into bottom of the barrel public schools. Seems silly, right? The angle is that their top performing kid in a bad school will end up boosting their odds of being at or near the top of their class by attending these poor high school. Some top tier colleges have even been known to favor these kids…since they thrived in such a bad school. TX also has an in-state admission program that guarantees kids in the top 10% entry into all public/state colleges. The only exception I know of is UT Austin. They are super selective and were finding the need to add in more weed out classes when it was 10%, so they were allowed a slightly different policy. The % changes a bit each year based on number of graduating and applying in-state seniors, but it’s usually the top 6-7% in each high school get into UT Austin. They are still required to pull 75% of their acceptances from the state of TX. It’s just frustrating knowing that my kid might be top 3% at a bad high school and get in, but could be denied because she’s top 10% at a really good high school. We've at least been prepping K for this and pushing for her to be open minded about options...including out of state public schools with neighboring state reciprocity agreements.

It’s interesting with the girl who was trying but opted for a redo. It feels like an option that really makes sure kids get the education they need...at least when they care and put in the work. I guess the girl who threw it all away isn’t really all that different than the kids who go to good high schools here and just brush off putting in the work. I guess at least redo is an option for kids like your other examples…and I’m guessing it doesn’t reflect poorly on the kid like it can in the US when a child is held back a year? Considering that one girl was already slacking and using E and Dimphy to carry her, I have to wonder if being in the party crowd was really her desire all along. Like maybe she thought she’d be one of those kids who could get by with others doing her work? Granted, home life could be a big part of this. So many kids who have school issues are just carrying family problems into their school life and it puts them on self-destruct mode. Maybe the partying helps numb her from the sadness and issues at home. It’s unfortunate because it sounds like she had the resources and has a good foundation with her mom. Unfortunately, the lure of fun and freedom takes some kids down a really bad path.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
I probably wouldn’t have thought any differently if someone said ‘filet’ to me as a kid. My dad did a lot of fishing and I associated the word with his filet knife/fileting fish. Steak wasn't usually on the menu in my home and wasn't something I discovered until my mid 20s. I also have a palate that picks up food differences. Boxed mashed potatoes, gamey meats, boxed cake mix, etc. are all things where I can taste clear differences. My grandparents normally required us to clean our plates, but that was typical of the Great Depression generation. My parents were more flexible and had a rule called “no thank-you” helpings. My mom’s family was also really big on dining etiquette, especially for dining out and dinner parties, so there was no going without eating or making faces. I doubt we were perfect, but there were definitely eating and behavioral expectations. During our kids’ menu days, we also were usually pushed to order non-kiddie foods. My dad has also always been a very creative cook, so it taught us from an early age that we should try everything (even when I was 6 and he made octopus), which made us more adventurous eaters. The difference is that nobody lied to us and there were scenarios where we could get by with that “no thank-you” helping…which was usually 2 smaller bites. Our family Hanukkah feast was always this dinner party (15-25 people) with a big spread from a Jewish deli. I have never liked chopped liver, but I went through enough no thank-you helpings and ate enough of the other more unique traditional foods to eventually be relieved of this no thank-you requirement. The funniest one was sliced tongue. It tasted so good and I still love it, but as a little kid, I thought everyone was joking. Like seriously…who would serve tongue?!?! I was about 14 the first time I saw a full beef tongue in a deli and realized that they’d been telling the truth all along.

I’ve watched a ton of videos. I’ve seen one of the really crazy tours…where you have to fit into this stone testing thing on the ground. That’s definitely not for us. Our time is going to be really limited and I see us doing more sampling than intensive touring, so the discovery tour may be just fine. We’ll see. I generally prefer above ground parks/sites and two caves may be a bit much. So, we may end up just going with Wind.

The differences are all very interesting…especially not focusing on percentile/ranks. While I know it’s still a lot of work, it sounds like there’s a lot less stress and superfluous courses, clubs and extracurriculars to pad your resume. That focus could prepare them much better for their intended fields/careers compared to the US. The financial aid game is just one more piece of the stress puzzle. It also is interesting that there may be a couple of different pathways to the same profession over there…even though one may take longer. My recent frustration probably isn’t even an issue over there. While I knew different US high schools were rated better than others and that it can heavily impact admissions, I’ve also seen people playing this game in a different direction. Part of why we picked up and moved across town was to get the kids into a high school with a better college prep rating. It’s why my parents picked the town where I grew up...high tax rate, but phenomenal schools. While the girls’ high school is still a very good school, it’s fallen in rank since we moved. That’s frustrating, but I’m also seeing people who have gone the complete opposite direction and petitioned to get their kids into bottom of the barrel public schools. Seems silly, right? The angle is that their top performing kid in a bad school will end up boosting their odds of being at or near the top of their class by attending these poor high school. Some top tier colleges have even been known to favor these kids…since they thrived in such a bad school. TX also has an in-state admission program that guarantees kids in the top 10% entry into all public/state colleges. The only exception I know of is UT Austin. They are super selective and were finding the need to add in more weed out classes when it was 10%, so they were allowed a slightly different policy. The % changes a bit each year based on number of graduating and applying in-state seniors, but it’s usually the top 6-7% in each high school get into UT Austin. They are still required to pull 75% of their acceptances from the state of TX. It’s just frustrating knowing that my kid might be top 3% at a bad high school and get in, but could be denied because she’s top 10% at a really good high school. We've at least been prepping K for this and pushing for her to be open minded about options...including out of state public schools with neighboring state reciprocity agreements.

It’s interesting with the girl who was trying but opted for a redo. It feels like an option that really makes sure kids get the education they need...at least when they care and put in the work. I guess the girl who threw it all away isn’t really all that different than the kids who go to good high schools here and just brush off putting in the work. I guess at least redo is an option for kids like your other examples…and I’m guessing it doesn’t reflect poorly on the kid like it can in the US when a child is held back a year? Considering that one girl was already slacking and using E and Dimphy to carry her, I have to wonder if being in the party crowd was really her desire all along. Like maybe she thought she’d be one of those kids who could get by with others doing her work? Granted, home life could be a big part of this. So many kids who have school issues are just carrying family problems into their school life and it puts them on self-destruct mode. Maybe the partying helps numb her from the sadness and issues at home. It’s unfortunate because it sounds like she had the resources and has a good foundation with her mom. Unfortunately, the lure of fun and freedom takes some kids down a really bad path.
It's interesting. We were having a discussion about food yesterday and how world events or situations contribute to eating issues. Like, how someone having grown up during the depression era was used to not getting enough to eat, so their bodies adapted for that. But then when the depression era is over, the body is still compensating for the missed nutrition that is no longer missing, so then you have a higher probability of being overweight. Or how the slaves who were brought over on ships often died of dehydration and those who survived were the ones whose bodies stored more salt, so then when they are no longer in those conditions, their bodies are still retaining the salt and they have a higher chance of high blood pressure. My mom grew up just after the depression, during WWII rationing, so she was very big on not being wasteful. Like you mentioned cleaning your plate, and also reusing/repurposing packaging, darning socks, patching pants, using old tshirts as dust rags, etc. And that came in handy, because we were pretty poor, which again meant that we often went without things, and maybe that's part of why we're all overweight. Our bodies compensated for the lack so that when we finally DID have what we needed, our bodies absorbed everything for the next time we lacked. But it's not just the physical reaction of our bodies, either....it's also the mentality. "Oh, now that I can afford this, I'd better buy 5 of them just in case I can't afford it again once I run out......now I have a supply." "Better take advantage of the opportunity while I have it. I'll eat a bunch now because it's here and I may not have another chance tomorrow!!" I know I did that with food. Because I was picky, if there was something I liked, I felt like I had to fill up on that just in case it was a while before I got something I liked again.

I lost this whole portion of my post somehow....take 2!

Ok, so no your frustration wouldn't be an issue here. Everyone has the same opportunities. Kids aren't punished for struggling or being held back. In fact a LOT of kids get held back a year...or at least at my kids' elementary school. Granted it was one of the worst schools in the town. Over here, every school has to do standardized testing a few times a year, but it's different than in the US. It's only to help the teachers pinpoint what help their students require. Which kids need more challenging material, which kids might have a learning disability, which kids are at risk? Then they can help, and it DOES compare them to kids across the country, but only for identifying the strengths and weaknesses so they can address them. If a kid scores in the bottom 20% in reading, let's get that kid tested for dyslexia. If a kid scores in the top 5% for math, let's get them some more advanced material. And the last one they do in 6th grade is a bit more challenging and it divides them into levels for high school. E's school was terrible....they had some of the lowest scores in the nation, way below average. Average is MAVO level....bottom level is Basic, then Kader, then TL, which is basically mavo. Then Havo is advanced, and VWO is like the AP. E is the only kid in her entire school to score VWO level. Maximum score is 550, which she had. Anything over 545 is VWO level....Dimphy just BARELY missed it with a 544, but her teacher's recommendation was VWO, and that counts more than the test score, so she got to do VWO. There was one kid who scored Havo, and few who scored Mavo, and almost everyone else scored basic or Kader. I think there may have been one who scored Practical, which is like....remedial, I guess? It's for kids who really can't thrive in a classroom setting. They start training for a trade right away. But usually, the majority of your kids will score at Mavo level...it will be a bell curve, with the fewest kids scoring either basic or VWO. In E's school, she was the only VWO score, and the large majority scored basic/kader. Even the school for the mentaly handicapped scored better. But just in 1st grade alone, I remember there were like 6 kids just in E's homeroom class that got held back. I don't know about the other 1st grade homeroom. And then there were a couple in 2nd grade who got held back as well. And E said there was a kid in a couple of her classes last year who was like 18 and had failed sophomore year twice already. But, once he DOES make it through, he'll have just as much chance of getting into the program he chooses as E will, even though E is probably top 3%, maybe even top1%. I was lucky I went to a small school. I was that kid who was top 3% in my school, but in a larger school, I wouldn't have even been top 10%. And we also didn't really have cuts to sports teams and such. You might not play varsity, but you still got to put Basketball on your activities list. I was in Speech and debate, cheerleading, student council, music, drama/theater, international club, and honor society. In the bigger school, I wouldn't have been elected to student council, I certainly wouldn't have made cheerleading, and while I could have done theater, I wouldn't have had leading roles every time like I did, and I probably wouldn't have been eligible for honor society, because I think it was only for the top 10%, and I wouldn't have been if I were in the bigger school. I got the tuition and fees scholorship for 4 years that was automatically given to the top 2 kids in each school. I wouldn't have even come CLOSE in the bigger school. But that's what I like about the system here. Everyone is even. Just because you aren't the best of the best doesn't mean you aren't good enough. You don't get relegated to minimum wage work just because you weren't at the top of your class. E's been checking out universities and programs and said there is ONE program that had a fixed number of slots. They take all the kids who apply and they take a test. The top so many scorers get the slots. But the rest of the programs she's seen are all "If you have the required diploma, welcome!!" Most don't do a competitive selection process to get in. I feel like that's the way it should be. There's more to being successful than having the highest IQ or grades. I may not have been at the top of my class in a bigger school, but I WAS one of the best singers in the state. I made all-state as a freshman, which is rare. But without that tuition and fees scholarship I got for graduating #2 in my class, I wouldn't have been able to afford college at all. And just because I am not some genius doesn't mean I can't be a good teacher, or social worker, or whatever. I like that the system here helps you get the education geered towards your level, and that everyone has the same opportunities for growth. I wish the US was less competitive about it....and when you look at international rankings, the Netherlands comes out WAY above the US. Why is it that a system that glorifies the competition between students and being elite, scores so low compared to countries who don't push that competitive mentality? I think kids do better when they just worry about doing their best and not about whether or not they are #1. It's like when you are running in a race....it slows you down to turn around and look to see where everyone else is. If you just focus on getting across the finish line as fast as you can, you're going to be faster than if you are looking behind you at how close the next person is.

And yes, I wonder how much of this girl's self-destruction is home life related, mostly from her dad's home. On the other hand, she had a really good group of friends, all very responsible and hard working....they were a good influence. She pulled away from them and almost kind of dove in head first into the bad crowd. E said the girl was the first one to say she'd never smoke or anything when they were in junior high, and she was religious and kind of sanctimonious, and then she was the ONLY one of the friend group who started smoking and at least smoking weed, etc. Usually, it's because of the friend group that kids go along with the peer pressure...it's the other friends putting pressure on them to do the things they know are wrong that make them scared to go against the majority. In this case, she broke away from the majority and went in search of the "wrong path". E's friends are still the non-partiers. Well....they party, but their version of "partying" is to watch movies on Netflix or play D&D and bring a lot of snacks, not get drunk or high, etc.
 

Figgy1

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I bumped my shoulder a week back and wound up with a bruise that HURTS. Anyhoo there goes yoga or weights for about another week :( at least it's healing nicely and the pain is just about gone
So I changed up my cardio and am doing Reps to the Rythm (Youtube) and old fashioned floor work which actually is a nice change of pace because the weather has been keeping me in most days
On a much happier note I've managed to make a much better gf/vegan bread since the holidays. Psyllium Husk, who knew
 

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