Workers want pay boost

[rob0519]

Unfortunately, there is no quick or clean asnwer to this problem. If a person stays in an entry level job or near entry level job for 10 years, there cannot be a reasonable expectation to be making a substantially higher income. Thirty years ago, companies paid people for longevity. Today, companies pay people what the job is worth on the market.

 

[slappy magoo]

Most businesses are started by an individual with an idea to do or sell something at a profit. Although this may include employing people to achieve that goal, it's not the objective of the person who risks to start the business.

But if the idea to do or sell something at a profit requires you to use other people's labor and pay them so little that they can't afford to survive without a SNAP card or other help from the government, maybe your business model is faulty.

 

[WDW1974]

I have to take Disney's side in this battle. It is far from the PR nightmare a business like Wal-Mart is facing. Look at the benefits CM's have

Discounts at select Walt Disney World and Disneyland dining, merchandise, and recreation locations
Discounts at select Walt Disney World and Disneyland Resort hotels
Disney Cruise Line Discounts
Discounts at participating local businesses
Theme park admission for cast members
Cast member exclusive sneak previews of new attractions, parks, and resorts
Wellness programs
On-site health fairs and seminars
Life-management services
Cast member clubs, instructional programs, and sports leagues
Credit union membership

The compensation CMs get is much more than just their hourly wage and it is a much better working environment than almost anywhere else a person can find. That is why so many people all over the world want to work there. There are plenty of college interns willing to take the place of any disgruntled entry level employee.

You are freaking insane ... or just plain ignorant to simple real world realities.

Someone making minimum wage working at WDW can't take a cruise or stay at the Grand Flo for 60% off nor have dinner at Citricos for 20% off (if they were able to book it). And their working environment being better? better than what? A crack den? Because if you look at the guests they have to deal with daily and the managers they have to deal with, no sane person would ever say that working 20 hours at Disney is better than working 20 hours at CVS or Starbucks or TGI Friday's.

I am not talking about wealthy college kids that come and give all of their limited earnings back to Disney. I am not talking about retirees from Davenport with $1.2 million in retirement funds that drive boats either.

I am talking about the vast majority of CMs who are working because they NEED the income.

I honestly don't know a single Spirit who advocates what Disney and other companies are allowed to pay the slaves because, frankly, I wouldn't associate with anyone who was so heartless and clueless that they would think that $7-8-9 an hour is somehow a 'liveable' wage.

And if it isn't my dear rightwingers, please tell me what do you dislike more? Paying living wages for workers or paying for their healthcare and childcare and every other care because they can not live in today's society on $200 a week before taxes.

(Yes, I am likely insane for wasting my time ... )

 

[Hakunamatata]

But if the idea to do or sell something at a profit requires you to use other people's labor and pay them so little that they can't afford to survive without a SNAP card or other help from the government, maybe your business model is faulty.

And again, you are applying the perceptions of a person or a group on a legally operating business.

Here is a thought. If you don't think a company is paying a reasonable wage to its employees don't frequent it.

 

[slappy magoo]

Unfortunately, there is no quick or clean asnwer to this problem. If a person stays in an entry level job or near entry level job for 10 years, there cannot be a reasonable expectation to be making a substantially higher income. Thirty years ago, companies paid people for longevity. Today, companies pay people what the job is worth on the market.

Define "substantially higher income." If someone started working as a janitor 30 years ago at 30K, it is perhaps wrong to assume they should now be making 100K, but should he still making 30K? Is it possible there's a number between "what he's always made" and "a shocking made-up astronomical figure designed to scare people into thinking there shouldn't even be a minimum wage at all" that rewards the worker for his loyalty to the company but doesn't break the company? Again, Newt Gingrich's "brilliant" idea to replace school janitors with poor kids who need meal subsidies come to mind.

My old man was the kind of guy who believed that "any honest work is good work" and he'd pitch a fit to hear someone denigrate a fast-food worker or Wal-Mart greeter or the proverbial ditch-digger as if their thankless job was an invitation to pile on ridicule. I can't imagine what he'd think about people who could work two jobs, never spend time with their kids and still need the government to help them buy groceries.

 

[WDW1974]

If pay were based on productivity of the current American workforce the minimum wage would be approximately $18/hour. We can continue to starve out a large portion of our society if you like, but I don't think it will fare well for greater good. I know the greater good is a dirty word these days but if you're a champion of thunderdome-type ideals when it comes to society you are likely one of the ones making out well. Now I realize there are many who are down on their luck primarily due to their own, likely poor, choices but there are way too many people who have done things the right way and are still behind the curve. This is a new and growing trend. But again, we can ignore this trajectory of stagnant salaries over the past 40 years [you cannot tell me this phenomenon is simply supply/demand when the top is making all the rules] or take steps to make sure people can support themselves with some effort. One way or another we will all pay a bill on this. The question is do you want to pay big or pay small?

The greater good? No one cares about that, except bleeding hearts who want to hand out welfare to any/every one ... that would make us evil like those countries in western Europe that have much higher qualities of life than we do. But, hey, with that Dollar Menu at McD's you can be both poor and weigh 500 pounds. What a country.

The joke is that people think those top one percenters care at all. Most of them have boats and planes ready to go if social chaos ever erupted in the USA. In other words, they'd let us all burn while they go live on some island they own.

Personally, I think we should do something before it comes to that ... and yes, I am talking limits and controls on what companies can and can't do. Don't worry all you lovers of the bastardized capitalism we have here in the 21st century. It won't happy. And somewhere in the USA, the self-professed greatest nation on earth, someone ... many someones ... are dying because they can't afford to be saved.

Hey, did you see the new LE EPCOT pin set?

 

[slappy magoo]

And again, you are applying the perceptions of a person or a group on a legally operating business.

As opposed to an illegally operating business?

 

[slappy magoo]

Here is a thought. If you don't think a company is paying a reasonable wage to its employees don't frequent it.

Or here is a thought - I encourage the company to pay its workers better, and encourage politicians to consider an increase in the minimum wage. Because a personal boycott of a company the size of Disney is the proverbial saliva in the breeze. But encouraging the conversation to making everyone make better money, while still slight, has the added value of being a better thing to do.

 

[Tater48]

Part time cast are not "guaranteed" 24 hours. Actually As part time cast they don't have to give you any hours if thy don't need to. Read your paperwork. I signed mine less than a week ago and it's fairly clearly written.

This depends on the role you perform and the joke of a union you belong to. No two departments / divisions are ran the same. Different rules for everybody.

 

[WDW1974]

If you're in your early 20s, no kids, maybe you don't mind sharing an apartment with 3 or more people and taking advantage of those awesome discounts.

If you're a working single mom, those discounts are a poor substitute for nutritious meals, a roof over your head in a safe neighborhood with a decent school system, or savings for your kids' college.

I know, I know, no one says you have to work there and it's very easy to just up and quit one job and go look for another one. Which is why nobody who is currently unemployed has been so for years. Oh, wait, chronic unemployment is such a thing some politicians are suggesting incentives to businesses to hire people who've been out of work longer than 1 or 2 years, especially if those unemployed are also veterans.

So true, it's not like I don't know professionals who used to make high five figures or six figures who have been out of work as far back as 2007-2009. They can't get jobs because there are NONE. And, no, a former VP isn't going to get hired as a fry boy at McD's no matter what FOX and Friends spouts.

Many others, including myself, have gone through periods of feast or famine since the economic collapse with no stability and no ability to plan six WDW vacations for the next 18 months. We don't ever factor into the nation's employment report.

It's sorta like not publicizing suicides in this country because if we really were what our PR spin tells the world, why would so many people decide death is better than existing in this place where if you just hunker down, pull up your bootstraps and work as hard as you can with no help from government or anyone, anything can happen ... talk about your Pixie Dust fantasies.
#wakeup#wearen'twhatweusedtobe#Disneydoesn'tloveyou!

 

[WDWDad13]

You are freaking insane ... or just plain ignorant to simple real world realities.

Someone making minimum wage working at WDW can't take a cruise or stay at the Grand Flo for 60% off nor have dinner at Citricos for 20% off (if they were able to book it). And their working environment being better? better than what? A crack den? Because if you look at the guests they have to deal with daily and the managers they have to deal with, no sane person would ever say that working 20 hours at Disney is better than working 20 hours at CVS or Starbucks or TGI Friday's.

I am not talking about wealthy college kids that come and give all of their limited earnings back to Disney. I am not talking about retirees from Davenport with $1.2 million in retirement funds that drive boats either.

I am talking about the vast majority of CMs who are working because they NEED the income.

I honestly don't know a single Spirit who advocates what Disney and other companies are allowed to pay the slaves because, frankly, I wouldn't associate with anyone who was so heartless and clueless that they would think that $7-8-9 an hour is somehow a 'liveable' wage.

And if it isn't my dear rightwingers, please tell me what do you dislike more? Paying living wages for workers or paying for their healthcare and childcare and every other care because they can not live in today's society on $200 a week before taxes.

(Yes, I am likely insane for wasting my time ... )

just curious... what is the front line average CM/employee job pay and benefits at Disney v/s other theme parks such as Uni, SeaWorld, LEGOLAND, Busch Gardens, Dollywood, etc.

 

[WDW1974]

That's where you and I disagree. If you're willing to show up at a job and do the job and work 40-50 hours a week at the job, you shouldn't then have to go apply for assistance during your lunch break. You should be able to, at the very very least, survive. That's what the minimum wage was designed to be, the bare-bones livable wage so people didn't live in poverty. If a business' long-term plan for profit and growth involves paying their workers so little they have to be subsidized by other taxpayers to live, they're doing capitalism wrong.

how can anyone who claims to be sane, claims to care about other people, claims to care about how the USA is viewed in the world ... how can anyone disagree with such a basic statement?

 

[WDWDad13]

So true, it's not like I don't professionals who uses to make high five figures or six figures who have been out of work as far back as 2007-2009. They can't get jobs because there are NONE. And, no, a former VP isn't going to get hired as a fry boy at McD's no matter what FOX and Friends spouts.

Many others, including myself, have gone through periods of feast or famine since the economic collapse with no stability and no ability to plan six WDW vacations for the next 18 months. We don't ever factor into the nation's employment report.

It's sorta like not publicizing suicides in this country because if we really were what our PR spin tells the world, why would so many people decide death is better than existing in this place where if you just hunker down, pull up your bootstraps and work as hard as you can with no help from government or anyone, anything can happen ... talk about your Pixie Dust fantasies.
#wakeup#wearen'twhatweusedtobe#Disneydoesn'tloveyou!

I get what you're trying to say but there are ways to make it in this world. Sure, people fall on hard times and our government and it's policies are a mess and making things worse for EVERYONE (don't be fooled by the topics on helping the middle class or lower income families are actually happening)... but if one truly wanted to "make it" , they can find a way rather than holding their hand out wanting others to just give them something for being in this world.

If a Disney CM job isn't paying enough for their lifestyle and that is their sole source of income...then they should find a different job and Disney will fill that one with someone else.

I have no problem helping others when they need it... I do often in fact... but there's a difference between doing something and not doing something

 

[Hakunamatata]

how can anyone who claims to be sane, claims to care about other people, claims to care about how the USA is viewed in the world ... how can anyone disagree with such a basic statement?

Because humans were created to have independent thought.

 

[WDWDad13]

how can anyone who claims to be sane, claims to care about other people, claims to care about how the USA is viewed in the world ... how can anyone disagree with such a basic statement?

I disagree... because if they are working a 40-50 hour job and still have to apply for help from the government and can't make it on their lifestyle they are trying to have...then they should do something about it and look for new sources of income (new jobs, further education)

part of the problem is society as well... ex. single mothers who can't make it but continue to have more and more kids with no fathers around or child support coming in and then are first in line to get their government help so they can buy the new iPhone before diapers

 

[slappy magoo]

just curious... what is the front line average CM/employee job pay and benefits at Disney v/s other theme parks such as Uni, SeaWorld, LEGOLAND, Busch Gardens, Dollywood, etc.

Why is that germane to the topic?

I'm also still just curious as to whom you think doesn't deserve to make $9.64 an hour?

 

[Hakunamatata]

Why is that germane to the topic?

I'm also still just curious as to whom you think doesn't deserve to make $9.64 an hour?

Why not 19.64 an hour?

 

[WDWDad13]

Why is that germane to the topic?

I'm also still just curious as to whom you think doesn't deserve to make $9.64 an hour?

no one deserves to make anything unless they earn it

and I'm asking the question about pay at other theme parks because of the competition factor and costs as well. Ex. Walmart isn't going to pay cashiers $30/hr if Target is paying $10

 

[WDWDad13]

Why not 19.64 an hour?

are you kidding me? everyone "deserves" to make at lease $29.64 to have a livable income regardless of what they do (work or not)

 

[CDavid]

Simple business logic (that many running the country don't have) is that if you raise the minimum wage by a substantial margin across the board two things will happen a) cost of items will go up and then it won't matter that people are making more or b) more people will lose jobs because the businesses they are running have to offset the cost somehow

Price increases due to a minimum wage hike are generally way overblown. With companies invariably looking to maximize profits, prices tend to be set at the maximum the market will bear, which doesn't necessarily change just because your costs do (WDW tickets being an obvious example). Even when increased labor costs can be passed along to the consumer, the difference isn't typically very large (despite grossly exaggerated claims to the contrary).

As for job losses, just how many positions can most businesses actually cut? If you are already staffing just at the required level (like Disney, again), you are very limited in what positions can be eliminated and still be able to provide the expected product or level of service to your customers.