Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

[Stevek]

Certainly not worse than the Motorboat Cruise or If You Had Wings.

I loved the Motor Boat cruise as a kid. Autopia on water...it was one of those rites of passage for us. You can drive a car, you can pilot a boat...all under 10 years of age. Never experienced If You Had Wings but there are folks out there that still lament it's demise.

 

[Donaldfan1934]

Star Wars, Indy, Pixar...all feel very much come off as very Disneyesque, even when they weren't officially Disney i.e. great, imaginative storytelling.

As I said in my post, I agree with you on Pixar. I'll leave the others to be your opinion.

 

[Phroobar]

Certainly not worse than the Motorboat Cruise or If You Had Wings.

Sir, the Motorboat Cruise is the height of originality and creativity! It is not based off an IP that Disney bought that has no business in Disneyland. I refuse to step foot in the old motorboat cruise dock until it is fully restored. Disneyland lost it's soul when that attraction was taken out. I will swear completely off Disney if they put in the Marvel's Namor the Submariner vs Captain Barracuda boat ride in 2020.

 

[Stevek]

The Fantasyland example is moot in terms of my argument. I've said this before, Fantasyland had multiple rides based on movies, but they were their own, separate entities. Fantasyland isn't Snow White Land, or Peter Pan Land, or Mr. Toad Land. All of the attractions are based on individual IPs. That is completely different from Star Wars Land, for reasons I'm sure I won't have to explain. This won't be just a ride, like Star Tours, this will be an entire land dedicated to nothing but Star Wars. There is a difference.

The purpose of my ranting is not to hopefully change the minds at Disney. I'm ranting because I want to, and I would like to express my feelings. Clearly there will be people who enjoy it. I know that, and I know I'm not going to change their minds. Can't a girl rant just because?

I didn't say creative thoughts aren't being floated around, although I can bet there are plenty of Imagineers without one hint of imagination in them. What I did say was Disney doesn't give creativity a chance, and I find it to be a rare occurrence. Keep in mind, I'm specifically talking about concepts. I don't find Cars Land to be creative. Radiator Springs was taken straight from a film. Have you seen the original plans for what is now Cars Land? Those plans were pretty creative, in my opinion. I can't speak on NFL. Buena Vista Street, I can give you that.

I remember asking a similar question in another thread. Which project would allow for more creativity and room for a variety of different ride/attraction concepts, a land based on space exploration, or a land based on Star Wars?

As for Cars Land, the ability to take a cartoon land and build arguably one of the most immersive, if not most immersive, single lands in any Disney park is incredibly creative IMO. To feel like you are actually walking into that land, the size and beauty of the Cadillac range.

My FL comments was specifically addressing the overall usage of IP and that it's not anything new or unique for Disney. They always have and always will be a significant part of Disney parks...it will just be a lot of newly acquired IP moving forward.

I'll ask you this. Assuming Disney would not build a third park, not put SW in DCA, not build an entire land...is there any way you would accept the addition of SW to Disneyland? Was Star Tours enough?

 

[Rich T]

As I said in the post above, there are places for these IP's in the parks. Disneyland and parks of its ilk should be the shining examples of classic Disney in its purest form. If you muddle things up, then the individual legacies are lost on future generations. Whether your a Disney fan, a Star Wars fan, or both like myself, that's something no one wants to see on either side of the coin.

Well said, and in a perfect world, it would be great to see it all given that kind of treatment. I do think the location of SWL is about as good a job at separating SW from the more "Classic" areas of the park as they could possibly come up with.

Here's another way of looking at it. Disneyland has a Swiss Mountain that used to be part of Tomorrowland. It has a ride where pirates torture people and auction off women. It has a ride based on the lovely Wind in the Willows that sends riders to a horrific death and a trip to hell. Why do we wholeheartedly accept these weird things as beloved components of Disneyland? Simply because they're there, they're well done and we can't imagine the park without them. Disneyland absorbs its bizarre collection of components and makes it all part of the whole experience. Starting in 2018 DL will have a wild, crazy Sci-Fantasy world hidden back behind Rivers of America. Disney didn't initially create that world, but they didn't create the Swiss Alps, the Skyway, Bryce Canyon, Steam Trains, Dixieland music, Corn Dogs or Carousels, either. But they took those elements and made them part of Disneyland. And now they're doing that with Star Wars in a way that actually makes more thematic sense than having a ride set "A Long Time Ago" sitting at the entry to Tomorrowland.

I think it's going to be fun. I think within a few years most people will just accept it as being as much a part of Disneyland as Nuclear Powered Submarines, a human-size Tinker Bell flying off a Swiss Mountain, or Starbucks in 1900's America. Yes, it'll blur the historic lines of what was created by Disney and what was taken over by Disney... but let's be honest. 99% of DL's visitors don't care about that. At all. For those of us who do care, the history is right there to be discovered and always will be, barring some civilization-ending catastrophe, in which case theme parks will be the last worry on anyone's minds. I'm just saying give it a chance.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I loved the Motor Boat cruise as a kid. Autopia on water...it was one of those rites of passage for us. You can drive a car, you can pilot a boat...all under 10 years of age. Never experienced If You Had Wings but there are folks out there that still lament it's demise.

Now the area is home to lots of ducks, not that that's an issue.

 

[Variable]

I would most definitely say RSR is innovative. Took a ride system that has only been used a couple times before to a whole new level of immersion in every sense of the word.

I can't agree. It's rest track with different sets. It's a blast too!

 

[Californian Elitist]

As for Cars Land, the ability to take a cartoon land and build arguably one of the most immersive, if not most immersive, single lands in any Disney park is incredibly creative IMO. To feel like you are actually walking into that land, the size and beauty of the Cadillac range.

My FL comments was specifically addressing the overall usage of IP and that it's not anything new or unique for Disney. They always have and always will be a significant part of Disney parks...it will just be a lot of newly acquired IP moving forward.

I'll ask you this. Assuming Disney would not build a third park, not put SW in DCA, not build an entire land...is there any way you would accept the addition of SW to Disneyland? Was Star Tours enough?

Building Cars Land is different from creating its concept. It's the concept I'm referring to. Someone, Lasster apparently, proposed building Radiator Springs in DCA. He didn't have to create it, a team of artists has already drawn it out for the film. I understand SWL will be different, but the story has already been written.

I feel that because there are already IP-based rides in the park, it doesn't mean they should start building entire lands based on IPs. We're already screwed in terms of land and space, and now a whopping 12 acres will be dedicated to Star Wars and Star Wars only. I start to think about what could have gone there and I get even more annoyed.

I will never, ever, ever, ever, never in billion years accept SWL's placement in Disneyland. There's really nothing Disney could do. My feelings won't change. I don't even like Star Tours, but I can deal with that because it's a single ride (even though it's placed somewhere where it doesn't be long). For those who are for this, I'm happy for them. I hope the fans enjoy it. I will be staying away.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I loved the Motor Boat cruise as a kid. Autopia on water...it was one of those rites of passage for us. You can drive a car, you can pilot a boat...all under 10 years of age.

Really? I rode the ride as a kid too, but I only did it because I had to do something with those B coupons, right? I'm pretty sure that I would have preferred SSL if it had been around back then, but I've always had a quirky sense of humor.

SSL partly got a lot of grief because it was built in a brand new park that was highly criticized for being short on Disney innovation and creativity. It wasn't great, but hardly the dog internet fans keep trying to say it was.

Never experienced If You Had Wings but there are folks out there that still lament it's demise.

If You Had Wings was literally a 10 minute omnimover advertisement for Eastern Airlines. I can't even imagine what the response would be if Disney produced something so blatantly commercial and corporate in a Magic Kingdom park today.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Disneyland lost it's soul when that attraction was taken out.

I would argue that it lost it a year or two before when this happened.

 

[Stevek]

Really? I rode the ride as a kid too, but I only did it because I had to do something with those B coupons, right? I'm pretty sure that I would have preferred SSL if it had been around back then, but I've always had a quirky sense of humor.

SSL partly got a lot of grief because it was built in a brand new park that was highly criticized for being short on Disney innovation and creativity. It wasn't great, but hardly the dog internet fans keep trying to say it was.



If You Had Wings was literally a 10 minute omnimover advertisement for Eastern Airlines. I can't even imagine what the response would be if Disney produced something so blatantly commercial and corporate in a Magic Kingdom park today.

I rode the Motor Boat Cruise in the early 70's, long before the tacky Gummi Bears overlay. I remember standing up, my dad sitting at my side, and steering my boat through the rapids thinking I was actually keeping it from hitting the rocks. For a 6 year old, that was amazeballs. But it definitely lost it's luster when they tried to plus it. I still remember riding SSL on a preview day with Michael Anthony (ex Van Halen) in the car behind us. Our comments were basically both the same...laughter followed by was that. The fact that we waited 45-60 min to ride it made it that much worse. It will always be the dark spot on a mostly stellar WDI history...well, that is until SW land opens : ) j/k Raven

 

[Rich T]

SSL partly got a lot of grief because it was built in a brand new park that was highly criticized for being short on Disney innovation and creativity. It wasn't great, but hardly the dog internet fans keep trying to say it was.

It was a black light Entertainment Tonight fever dream in slow motion. With Drew Carey, Tim Allen, Cher and a Fat Elvis fart joke.

If You Had Wings was literally a 10 minute omnimover advertisement for Eastern Airlines. I can't even imagine what the response would be if Disney produced something so blatantly commercial and corporate in a Magic Kingdom park today.

But what a great shameless plug it was! That song playing through the whole attraction, leading to the climactic moment of revelation: "You DO have wings!" And then you could buy airline tickets in the exit lobby! Annnnnd now the song's stuck in my head.

 

[Rich T]

I would argue that it lost it a year or two before when this happened.

I liked Rescue Ranger Raceway better.

 

[Filby61]

...Disneyland has a Swiss Mountain that used to be part of Tomorrowland. It has a ride where pirates torture people and auction off women. It has a ride based on the lovely Wind in the Willows that sends riders to a horrific death and a trip to hell. Why do we wholeheartedly accept these weird things as beloved components of Disneyland? Simply because they're there, they're well done and we can't imagine the park without them. Disneyland absorbs its bizarre collection of components and makes it all part of the whole experience. Starting in 2018 DL will have a wild, crazy Sci-Fantasy world hidden back behind Rivers of America. Disney didn't initially create that world, but they didn't create the Swiss Alps, the Skyway, Bryce Canyon, Steam Trains, Dixieland music, Corn Dogs or Carousels, either. But they took those elements and made them part of Disneyland. And now they're doing that with Star Wars in a way that actually makes more thematic sense than having a ride set "A Long Time Ago" sitting at the entry to Tomorrowland.

One historical fact that needs mentioning: everything in that "bizarre collection of components" was developed by the creative imaginations of, shaped by the sensibilities of, and considered as a part of the overall thematic experience of Disneyland by... Walt and his Imagineers. All it was a product of their collective Studio style.

All, that is, except for one. Star Wars was developed by the creative imagination of, shaped by the sensibilities of, and ultimately built into a thematic universe by... George Lucas. Iger and his financier-trained, strategic-planning-sensibilitie'd, consumer-product-promoting executives bought it from George and are currently jamming it like a 14-acre horse pill down the ripped-open gullet of Frontierland.

Now, if that kind of mis-match is okay for fans, that's fine. But they have zero credibility arguing the finer points of theme park theming -- that is, theme parks themselves as thematic experiences -- for the simple fact that they're okay with no overall-park thematic sensibility, much less continuity (and indeed give every evidence of being unable to perceive the difference).

 

[Phroobar]

One historical fact that needs mentioning: everything in that "bizarre collection of components" was developed by the creative imaginations of, shaped by the sensibilities of, and considered as a part of the overall thematic experience of Disneyland by... Walt and his Imagineers. All it was a product of their collective Studio style.

All, that is, except for one. Star Wars was developed by the creative imagination of, shaped by the sensibilities of, and ultimately the built into a universe by... George Lucas. Iger and his financier-trained, strategic-planning-sensibilitie'd, consumer-product-promoting executives bought it from George and are currently jamming it like a 14-acre horse pill down the ripped-open gullet of Frontierland.

Now, if that kind of mis-match is okay for fans, that's fine. But they have zero credibility arguing the finer points of theme park theming -- that is, theme parks themselves as thematic experiences -- for the simple fact that they're okay with no overall thematic park sensibility, much less continuity.

Really? So Pixar attractions/lands, Avatar land, Indiana Jones, the Muppets attractions are all created by imagineers just like star wars land is. But only Star Wars land is evil. Give me a break! Your troll like powers are lacking.

 

[Variable]

Just one historical comment: everything in that "bizarre collection of components" was developed by, shaped by the sensibilities of, and ultimately the thematic product of, Walt and his Imagineers.

Except for one. Star Wars was developed by, shaped by the sensibilities of, and ultimately the thematic product of, George Lucas. Iger and his financier-trained, strategic-planning-sensibilitie'd, consumer-product-promoting executives bought it and jammed it like a 14-acre horse pill down the ripped-open gullet of Frontierland.

Now, if that kind of mis-match is okay for fans, that's fine. But they have zero credibility arguing the finer points of theme park theming -- that is, theme parks as thematic entities -- for the simple fact that they're okay with no overall thematic sensibility, much less continuity.

Bah.

Walt had plenty of "help" of the kind that apparently disgusts you.
Walt had help with all facets of Disney. He was an animator, a savvy promoter and risk taker, but he was not a business god and one man show.

Full stop. I deleted the rest, some of you might have read it. That's cool.

It was wonderful but unfairly teased the imagineers. I think try would have liked it though .

Mike S's reply about location brought that clarity to me.

The quarrel isn't with the imagineers product, but with the location. They don't usually get to choose what goes where, at least not final say.

It's one thing though to be unhappy about the location of SWL at DL. it's another entirely to argue using Walt Disney imagined future decisions (which oddly are always contrary to the reality, huh). We have no way of knowing what Walt would have done today, it's delusional to think otherwise.

Spewing insults and hatred at current Disney employees is, I thought, against the rules of this board. I guess since nobody names the CFO, or other management people involved in these decisions it's ok? Really? Not very magical, that.

This thread was created by ego, attachment, fear, anger, delusion. It insults directly and indirectly, members of this board who like the project. It's been openly stared by the OP, little more than a place for them to rant.

Go start a blog.

 

[Mike S]

Really? So Pixar attractions/lands, Avatar land, Indiana Jones, the Muppets attractions are all created by imagineers just like star wars land is. But only Star Wars land is evil. Give me a break! Your troll like powers are lacking.

Avatar is going in Animal Kingdom last time I checked. Not Disneyland or Magic Kingdom. Same goes for Muppets getting a little area in DHS and Indiana Jones is just one ride, not a land. As has been stated Star Wars Land is perfect for DHS.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I actually don't like the Star Wars land in MGM Studios, either. But I'm a heck of a complainer. I know they're sort of "reinventing" the park, but it still makes no sense. The park as it has existed until the Star Wars and (*cringe*) Toy Story lands has been themed to Hollywood/SoCal with the Chinese Theater, Sunset Blvd., Echo Lake and backlot. It is and, I guess, was all mostly intricately themed and formed some sort of bizarre cohesive whole. For instance, the Star Tours there is themed like a movie set on the outside and as you enter the building, you're now in the movie. So it wasn't like a Star Wars spaceport was plopped in the middle of Disney's little Los Angeles. These massive alien environments in the back half of the park will surely come out of nowhere and make absolutely no thematic sense.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I rode the Motor Boat Cruise in the early 70's, long before the tacky Gummi Bears overlay.

So did I and they were as slow and as dull as they look in pictures. I know that there's an audience for everything, and that's great, but I will never understand why Disney would build a slow moving ride of any kind with zero scenery, music, or storytelling at all. You couldn't actually steer the boats and they didn't fit Tomorrowland or Fantasyland, so what was the point? I don't mean to diminish your memories of Motorboat Cruise, but I strongly disagree that SSL was worse.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I liked Rescue Ranger Raceway better.

Oh god. lol