Wishes new look

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PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Amazing how ever images i post online are watermarked and those were remarkably cropped out.

Even through a yahoo search, i cant understand how the whole "Copyright David Manning" could have confused you or anyone else. Clearly people who do things like this know what they are doing is wrong, especially when they go to the effort to crop them out.
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
Amazing how ever images i post online are watermarked and those were remarkably cropped out.

Even through a yahoo search, i cant understand how the whole "Copyright David Manning" could have confused you or anyone else. Clearly people who do things like this know what they are doing is wrong, especially when they go to the effort to crop them out.

hmm... I guess he left out the part about cropping... seems like an important part of the puzzle.

I never claimed to be a photographer, but I have had someone ask to use my pictures on their site. They were nice enough to ask and they added a credit. That's class.

Grabbing a picture and cropping out the watermark = scum.
 

GymLeaderPhil

Well-Known Member
I hate to bring this thread down further into oblivion, but I have to take a stance on some of the opinions expressed here on the rights of one's own work (in this instance, photographic) online.

I'm a webmaster, worked and contributed to a fairly large gaming site, now mostly do local area sites. I've only started doing a couple of pictoral updates for the fine folks here at WDWMagic and have allowed Grizz and co. to use my pictures on their site. I have no interest in creating or maintaining a WDW related site at this point in time. I just wish to share these pictures with all of you.

I was the first person to stumble upon MagicalEars and found almost all of my pictures from a recent update on that website. No credit. No confirmation from the owner Bill. He didn't directly link them or cause bandwidth theft. Needless to say, I was a tad bit mad. Bill ended up deleting my images. I'm not quite sure about speck and others.

In my experience as a webmaster, I almost had legal action taken (against the company I was contributing to) for an April Fools Prank that we posted on our server. We used a domain redirect... which made it appear like it was coming from another URL address, but was actually sent to our server. The page we used for an April Fools joke was an exact copy of the other site (an official site) and used the same style of their press releases. Our viewers saw it, freaked out at the press release's message, shared it to others and the official site WE copied had numerous customer service calls that day.

Even though we weren't making ANY profit off of the April Fools prank, we were still using their images and other copyrighted materials. In a sense, we were stealing their work. The same issue we're mulling over right now.

Misrepresentation the work of another's without proper acknowledgement is plagiarism. It is unethical. The reason why prominent and popular websites place watermarks over their images is due to those who do not feel the need to not seek proper authorization to repost their images. Some websites place restrictions on how you can view their site to prevent (bandwidth) theft of those images.

I have to do this for the websites I contribute to that have a larger audience.

I don't want to be forced into doing either and I'm sure most of the other Disney related sites would be much better off if they did not have to take such precautions. I feel sorry for others like PhotoDave who have to do this. It is an inconvinence and unfortunate that I must do so with my future updates.

I'm all for open discussion and views of my images. I'm also quite happy to let almost anyone use my photos if requested or, at least, given credit for the images. It's not FREE GAME. A bit of respect would change things. We all have the same passion for the parks, but do not steal other peoples work and claim that stealing benefits the community. :mad:
 

monorail_man

Account Suspended
Number_6 said:
The problem with Yahoo searches, is that it just goes through the net and finds images. It doesn't come up with images that Yahoo is hosting, it comes up with images from all over the net. I'm not saying that you did or didn't get some of the pics you are being accused of "stealing" from a Yahoo search, just that there is a remote possibility that if they were his pics, the Yahoo search showed you some of his images and you may not have realized it if they were his.


I understand that. But the point that I am trying to get dave to get through his head is that he keep ssaying I got the images from this site.

When you do a yahoo search for images, it brings up the image and the site its from, and it was not WDWMAGIC.com that came up. It was another site.
 

GymLeaderPhil

Well-Known Member
monorail_man said:
I understand that. But the point that I am trying to get dave to get through his head is that he keep ssaying I got the images from this site.

When you do a yahoo search for images, it brings up the image and the site its from, and it was not WDWMAGIC.com that came up. It was another site.

But even if the pictures were on another site or had another author, you have no right to use those photos on a personal site, publication or another form of media without contacting the author.
 

monorail_man

Account Suspended
GymLeaderPhil said:
But even if the pictures were on another site or had another author, you have no right to use those photos on a personal site, publication or another form of media without contacting the author.


I'll say this again. When an image is changed, edited, cut, ect 10% or more, it is now a new image and the "copyright" law no longer applies.


Ya know. Kinda like that image of Space Ghost you have in your avatar. I am sure that you did not ask the orginal artist for use of that image. and yet your useing it as your own. Yet it falls into the "ok to use" catagory, Your nto making money off the image, your not useing it saying it's your official comapany logo. your just posting it for peopel to see.

There is more then black and white when it comes to images online. There is alot of gray. The images I have on my site are NOT the orginals they have been cut, some backgrounds edited out, fliped/rotated, resized, ect.

Images do not fall under the same copyright laws as company logos.

Example. If one were to go to the Coke web site and take their logo you would haev to change more then 10% to make it a new image. Thats how you can have shirts that have things like the T-Shirt that looks like the FORD logo but read LORD.
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
monorail_man said:
Example. If one were to go to the Coke web site and take their logo you would haev to change more then 10% to make it a new image. Thats how you can have shirts that have things like the T-Shirt that looks like the FORD logo but read LORD.

Actually that's not 100% true. I remember hearing a story in my PR class about some people ripping off a Budwiser slogan and changing it a little bit and putting it on a T-shirt. They got into a lot of trouble for it.

monorail_man said:
I'll say this again. When an image is changed, edited, cut, ect 10% or more, it is now a new image and the "copyright" law no longer applies.

There is more then black and white when it comes to images online. There is alot of gray. The images I have on my site are NOT the orginals they have been cut, some backgrounds edited out, fliped/rotated, resized, ect.

Images do not fall under the same copyright laws as company logos.

This is also wrong. (See, I'll give credit)

According to Professional Photographers of America:
Copyright is a property right. Under the Federal Copyright Act of 1976, photographs are protected by copyright from the moment of creation. Assisting members; educating the public; and acting to protect the rights of photographers in the industry, government and legal forums are top priorities for PPA.

The Copyright Act protects photographers by giving the author of the photograph the exclusive rights to reproduce their photographs. Also, according to the Copyright Act it is illegal to copy or reproduce any photographs elsewhere without the owner's permission, and violation of this Federal Law will be subject ot its civil and criminal penalties. This also includes scanning of images for personal or internet purposes.

So, Monorail_man, even if you change something (I.E. a background color, rotating it, resizing) in a photograph, it is still considered that person's work because they are the ones who actually photographed the image. You can argue all you want about that, but you can't argue witht the law.

My opinion to you, Monorail_man and anyone else who wants to use someone else's photographs online is to just ask! What is the big deal? The worst thing they could do is say no. And if they did that, I'm sure you could find someone else who has probably taken very similar pictures and get permission from them. Because what happens to you if you get caught (I.E. possible jail time and a huge a$$ fine) are not something that I think you'd want to get caught up in. And trust me this is not an idle threat, it does happen.
 

monorail_man

Account Suspended
nibblesandbits said:
Actually that's not 100% true. I remember hearing a story in my PR class about some people ripping off a Budwiser slogan and changing it a little bit and putting it on a T-shirt. They got into a lot of trouble for it.



This is also wrong. (See, I'll give credit)



The Copyright Act protects photographers by giving the author of the photograph the exclusive rights to reproduce their photographs. Also, according to the Copyright Act it is illegal to copy or reproduce any photographs elsewhere without the owner's permission, and violation of this Federal Law will be subject ot its civil and criminal penalties. This also includes scanning of images for personal or internet purposes.

So, Monorail_man, even if you change something (I.E. a background color, rotating it, resizing) in a photograph, it is still considered that person's work because they are the ones who actually photographed the image. You can argue all you want about that, but you can't argue witht the law.

My opinion to you, Monorail_man and anyone else who wants to use someone else's photographs online is to just ask! What is the big deal? The worst thing they could do is say no. And if they did that, I'm sure you could find someone else who has probably taken very similar pictures and get permission from them. Because what happens to you if you get caught (I.E. possible jail time and a huge a$$ fine) are not something that I think you'd want to get caught up in. And trust me this is not an idle threat, it does happen.


You are misunderstanding.


Yes the copy right law holds for ORIGINAL images but like I said, if the image is changed more then 10% then it is no longer the original image that the copyright is for.

There is a company called Peacefrogs. Their company logo is a frog sitting giving a "peace" sign, Seen here Well a local guy in the next town over from us has a CD shop called Peace Frog Music. NO relation to the Peace Frogs company. He has a logo that looks EXACTLY like the peace frogs logo except he changed the eyes to red and gave the frog a small toung. WHen the Peace Frog company found out about this, they tried to make him change it. it went to court and was ruled that he had changed the frog just enought to make it an original of his own.

It woudl be like I could take the Pepsi logo and inver the colors (make it blue on top and red on bottom) and have a soda called POPSI and get away with it. It is my own logo inspired by another.


Liek I said, there is alot of gray in the copyright world.
 

MissM

Well-Known Member
You people need to take some serious time to actually LEARN what copyright is and how it works. Most people here are completely faulty on their statements about copyright.

Ten Big Myths About Copyright Explained

monorail_man said:
I'll say this again. When an image is changed, edited, cut, ect 10% or more, it is now a new image and the "copyright" law no longer applies.
WRONG! And I quote:
U.S. Copyright law is quite explicit that the making of what are called "derivative works" -- works based or derived from another copyrighted work -- is the exclusive province of the owner of the original work. This is true even though the making of these new works is a highly creative process. If you write a story using settings or characters from somebody else's work, you need that author's permission.
monorail_man said:
Images do not fall under the same copyright laws as company logos.
WRONG AGAIN!

monorail_man said:
Example. If one were to go to the Coke web site and take their logo you would haev to change more then 10% to make it a new image. Thats how you can have shirts that have things like the T-Shirt that looks like the FORD logo but read LORD.
WRONG A THIRD TIME. That is VERY often challenged - and the infringers lose. Big time. The rare times it doesn't is the very specific case of Parody.

Once again I quote:
There is a major exception -- criticism and parody. The fair use provision says that if you want to make fun of something like Star Trek, you don't need their permission to include Mr. Spock. This is not a loophole; you can't just take a non-parody and claim it is one on a technicality. The way "fair use" works is you get sued for copyright infringement, and you admit you did copy, but that your copying was a fair use. A subjective judgment on, among other things, your goals, is then made.
An additional resource is Stanford Copyright & Fair Use Center. There is extensive information within.

Other false ideas?
Just because it's online, means I can use it. False.
It doesn't hurt anyone so there's no harm. False.
I don't charge for it, so it's ok. False.
It didn't say it was copyrighted so it wasn't. False.

I can totally understand the frustrations of photographers who have had their materials blantently ripped off and stolen. It's unfair, it's rude and, yes folks, it's illegal. You may want to act like it's not, but you're wrong. Stealin someone's image online is no less then stealing something from someone's house. It's not yours, you don't have rights to it so no matter where you find it online, unless it specifically says it's public domain, you can not take it or use it in anyway. Period.

I've tracked down more sites then I can count over the years that stole images, articles I've written and related. In each and every case, the ISP/host/owner removed the items because the usage was illegal.

It flat out stinks that we as a whole have to miss out on the works of people, their artistic expression and their eye for a shot just because there's a lot of willfully ignorant people out there that can't keep their grubby fingers out of the metaphorical cookie jar. What gets me most is that the vast majority of people would gladly allow you to use their images if you simply asked in the first place. I know I have and I know others have allowed me to do the same. Common courtsey and legal rights.
-m
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
monorail_man said:
You are misunderstanding.


Yes the copy right law holds for ORIGINAL images but like I said, if the image is changed more then 10% then it is no longer the original image that the copyright is for.

There is a company called Peacefrogs. Their company logo is a frog sitting giving a "peace" sign, Seen here Well a local guy in the next town over from us has a CD shop called Peace Frog Music. NO relation to the Peace Frogs company. He has a logo that looks EXACTLY like the peace frogs logo except he changed the eyes to red and gave the frog a small toung. WHen the Peace Frog company found out about this, they tried to make him change it. it went to court and was ruled that he had changed the frog just enought to make it an original of his own.

It woudl be like I could take the Pepsi logo and inver the colors (make it blue on top and red on bottom) and have a soda called POPSI and get away with it. It is my own logo inspired by another.


Liek I said, there is alot of gray in the copyright world.

I am not misunderstanding anything.

The copyright is for all images. Changing the image even 10% does not mean that it is "your" image. Changing it even at all infringes on the copyright act because you didn't have permission to mess around with it in the first place. It wasn't your photograph to mess with. The original owner still has the EXCLUSIVE rights to that photograph. No matter whether we're talking about reproducing it or "photoshopping" it.

And just because some logos can be changed, it doesn't mean that the same goes for photographs. All in all, it is NOT YOUR PHOTOGRAPH. People like you just want to use this as an excuse to pass work that you did not do off as your own. It's just like cheating in college. It is still considered plajarism if you change a even few words from a book that you are using as a source into a paper that you are writing. Same goes for a photographic image.
 

monorail_man

Account Suspended
nibblesandbits said:
I am not misunderstanding anything.

The copyright is for all images. Changing the image even 10% does not mean that it is "your" image. Changing it even at all infringes on the copyright act because you didn't have permission to mess around with it in the first place. It wasn't your photograph to mess with. The original owner still has the EXCLUSIVE rights to that photograph. No matter whether we're talking about reproducing it or "photoshopping" it.

And just because some logos can be changed, it doesn't mean that the same goes for photographs. All in all, it is NOT YOUR PHOTOGRAPH. People like you just want to use this as an excuse to pass work that you did not do off as your own. It's just like cheating in college. It is still considered plajarism if you change a even few words from a book that you are using as a source into a paper that you are writing. Same goes for a photographic image.



If you say so. I am only going by what a court rulling would say.


But again. like it was said above. If you don't want you images/photos to be viewed,copied, spread around, don't post them online.
 

MissM

Well-Known Member
monorail_man said:
But again. like it was said above. If you don't want you images/photos to be viewed,copied, spread around, don't post them online.
People shouldn't have to not post just because idiotic jerks steal them. The fault is with the theives, not the posters. People need to educate themselves and respect the law as opposed to just make excuses.
-m
 

monorail_man

Account Suspended
MissM said:
You people need to take some serious time to actually LEARN what copyright is and how it works. Most people here are completely faulty on their statements about copyright.


DO NOT CURSS AT ME. you have no f'ing idea what your talkign about. Your confussing one law with another. I know what I am talking about. I have been dealing with this for a few years now.
 

monorail_man

Account Suspended
MissM said:
People shouldn't have to not post just because idiotic jerks steal them. The fault is with the theives, not the posters. People need to educate themselves and respect the law as opposed to just make excuses.
-m


:wave: The only way to protect your stuff is to keep it locked away.


When you display it to the public, they will do what they wish.


You can belive what you want. you can post laws stating one thing. but if you read further. and read the NEW LAWS that counter the OLD laws you will see that I am right. I have been dealing with the copyright laws on many issues, I have many ideas, copyrighted and many things pattented, but even then I do not go posting them all over the web for someoen to come along and mess with.


Did you knwo that when you post images on a host site (like photobucket or imagestation) you are giving them 100% rights to do what they wish with your images. read the fine print
 

monorail_man

Account Suspended
syddisney said:
Hey, does anyone have pictures of Wishes with the castle all dressed up with the decorations on it. Does the lighting sffects on the castle still look good with all the gold on the castle? If anyone has pics i would love to see them!

syddisney, I am sorry that your thread got jacked. Some people have to try to start a fight with everything.

Aperently since no one has posted ony night time pics of the castle during "Wishes" I am guess no one knows how the castle looks.

Good luck in your search, and let us know if you find pics.
 

syddisney

New Member
Original Poster
monorail_man said:
syddisney, I am sorry that your thread got jacked. Some people have to try to start a fight with everything.

Aperently since no one has posted ony night time pics of the castle during "Wishes" I am guess no one knows how the castle looks.

Good luck in your search, and let us know if you find pics.
Thanks alot! the only pics i found were the ones put up by The CEO, by the way, thanks again for the pics, they are great. It is sad that all these fourms all get messed up by people trying to make a fight out of nothing. If you don't want your pictures stolen, with or without getting credit, don't put them online. all it takes is a couple clicks and anyone can have them. If your going to be that protective of you stuff, don't let others see it, I think we should all grow up! What, do you people want an award for having your pictures used an a different site? Come on!
 

Number_6

Well-Known Member
I've posted images recently here on WDWMagic because I know that alot of people can't get to the parks often, sometimes not at all, and that they appreciate being able to see updated photos of things at WDW. I'm sure that's the reason most of us post those images. I'm more than happy to tell Steve that if he wants to use them for a news update for WDWMagic, that's fine. Heck, most of them are images hosted by the photo album I have here. Even though I've let Grizz know that D-Troops is more than welcome to any of the pics that I post, he still asks me every time. Bill from MagicalEars seems to have learned his lesson, since he contacted me through AIM to ask if he could use the recent Castle pics that I took. People shouldn't be told not to post their pics that are intended for the benefit of fellow fans just because someone couldn't take that extra minute to ask "Do you mind if I use these photos?" Personally, if a site wants to use my photos, I have no problem with it as long as they will credit me. I'm not a professional photographer or anything, I'm not looking for awards for my photos. I just would like credit for photos I take, good or not so good. That way if someone likes one I take, they can say "Number_6 did a nice job there." Or if it wasn't one of my best they can say "Wow, Number_6 did a crappy job on that one." But at least they would know that it was me and not just a random nameless schmuck.
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
I just get so frustrated with people who believe that everyting on the internet is up for the taking. Especially when people are trying to do a good thing by sharing THEIR (not your) pictures. It just sucks when people feel like they are subject to other people's works just because they are on the internet. I have also been fighting hard, but my fight is to protect the rights of images. It is my livelihood. It is how I make my living right now. (Not off Disney by the way.) I would hate to have my work that I created stolen by someone else and had it changed. Changing it is not what I created. That DEFACES my photograph that I took the time to think up. It was my thought process, not anyone elses. I hope one of these days, these people who keep ripping off photographs and changing them to make them "new" find out just how serious copyright infringement actually is. Because to a lot of people that I know, it's not just a stupid photograph they took.

I just don't understand what the problem is. Why can't you just ASK someone? How hard is that? I mean seriously? As I said earlier, the worst thing they can say is no.
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
So, um, who wants some pie? I've got Bananna Cream pie, Apple Pie, Chocolate Pie, peach pie, cherry pie, blueberry pie, and kiwi pie. :slurp:
 

Number_6

Well-Known Member
imagineer boy said:
So, um, who wants some pie? I've got Bananna Cream pie, Apple Pie, Chocolate Pie, peach pie, cherry pie, blueberry pie, and kiwi pie. :slurp:

Thanks imagineer boy!!! *Takes a banana cream pie and throws it at monorail_man* WOO-HOO!!! ;)
 
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