Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

[Miss Rori]

I should have been clearer - I meant there was that Disney was using having a handful of token minority characters in this movie (and others like Frozen II) in secondary parts as a way the company can be "diverse" without making movies that center those minorities in their narratives. Though it certainly is easier to just come up with a fantasy world where actual minority concerns don't matter. Yes, Encanto and Coco were successful, but Disney doesn't want to get too "woke" now does it?

(I keep thinking about that one critic who thought that Dahlia was a nice enough character, but why wasn't she the protagonist instead of Asha? The implication being that Asha's the "right" sort of minority lead - slim, quirky, etc. - as opposed to a disabled, heavyset Asian girl.)

 

[LittleBuford]

I should have been clearer - I meant there was that Disney was using having a handful of token minority characters in this movie (and others like Frozen II) in secondary parts as a way the company can be "diverse" without making movies that center those minorities in their narratives.

This makes very little sense given the prominence of minority characters, often in starring roles, across Disney’s recent films—Asha included!

Since Frozen 2, we’ve had:

• Raya and the Last Dragon
• Encanto
• Strange World
• Wish

All of these have had characters of color in leading roles.

And that’s to say nothing of non-animated Disney films or Pixar.

 

[Miss Rori]

This is true. That said, I'm thinking - especially as most of these recent films (and Pixar's) were financial disappointments at best, barring Encanto - that we're not going to see any more minority leads after Moana 2 and (maybe?) Elio at least for a few years. After all, the only films WDFAS has announced after that are Zootopia 2 and two more Frozen films. And they've been dragging their heels on the Tiana streaming series. It was kind of nice while it lasted.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Corn isn’t blue, though.

I know this is an old post from much earlier in the thread and off-topic to Wish, but corn really is blue. (You were talking about the song from Pocahontas, blue corn moon.)

(I'm guessing blue corn probably isn't very common in Europe.)

I think the phrase blue corn moon was made up by the songwriter. Perhaps a bit of a mix on a blue moon, and the corn (harvest) moon.

Real blue corn is also called Hopi Maize. It has long been a part of Native American culture, so that fits with the movie. I don't know if it was grown in VA in the 1600's, but it has been widely cultivated for a very long time. I don't claim to know very much on the topic, but corn cultivation was rather advanced by the 1600's in that a number of heirloom varieties were adapted to grow in different climates. As I recall, corn has some unusual genetic properties that contribute to its adaptability, including a high level of genetic diversity.

Anyhow, I thought you should know, because the wide variation is interesting. And it fits with what the Disney song is trying to convey:

Come run the hidden pine trails of the forest
Come taste the sun-sweet berries of the Earth
Come roll in all the riches all around you
And for once, never wonder what they're worth

 

[Farerb]

This is true. That said, I'm thinking - especially as most of these recent films (and Pixar's) were financial disappointments at best, barring Encanto - that we're not going to see any more minority leads after Moana 2 and (maybe?) Elio at least for a few years. After all, the only films WDFAS has announced after that are Zootopia 2 and two more Frozen films. And they've been dragging their heels on the Tiana streaming series. It was kind of nice while it lasted.

Honestly I don't get this. Disney hasn't made any new "white" protagonists since the original Frozen and even Anna and Elsa had their ethnicity retconned. I don't think Disney has issues with being inclusive, at least with their animated movies, they have been mostly inclusive since Aladdin.

 

[Miss Rori]

I don't think Disney has issues with being inclusive, at least with their animated movies, they have been mostly inclusive since Aladdin.

At the same time, it was years before minority characters were consistently voiced by minority performers; virtually all of the Aladdin voice cast was Caucasian, for instance. They did work a little harder with Pocahontas and Mulan but even then they resorted to white actors as singing voices for major characters (Judy Kuhn as Pocahontas, Donny Osmond as Li Shang). I don't think they sorted out that problem until The Princess and the Frog. To be fair, this has been a long-standing issue in western animation that's only been seriously addressed in the past decade or so. And all those films were primarily written and directed by white filmmakers, and sometimes had very shallow representations of culture, architecture, etc. With the more recent Disney/Pixar efforts, there's been more minority talent behind the camera as well as the voice mics, and that does seem to show in how minority characters are portrayed, some genuine progress. (Although there are still recurring issues - the leads in Princess and the Frog, Soul, and Turning Red spending long swathes of screen time as non-human beings, for instance. Anna and Elsa never had that problem! )

 

[LittleBuford]

I know this is an old post from much earlier in the thread and off-topic to Wish, but corn really is blue.

I learnt this only last month but had totally forgotten about my post, so thank you for the correction!

 

[Miss Rori]

Anyhow, I thought you should know, because the wide variation is interesting. And it fits with what the Disney song is trying to convey:

Yeah, it's easier to forgive the artistic license in "blue corn moon" than it is stuff like "throw caution to every warning sign" or "Watch out world, here I are" (which might have been intended as a joke, especially given how stupid "Bambi" seems to be, but doesn't come off as one). Or how the climax reuses the lyric "The way you've always taught me/us to" for the townspeople when it's unclear who "you" is supposed to be. In the first usage of the line Asha's referring to Dear Old Dead Dad, but who are the townspeople referring to? It can't be him because nobody outside of Asha's family and Magnifico knew him that well, it can't be Asha because they saw her as their enemy until a few minutes ago, and it certainly can't be Magnifico because the whole movie he was getting them to be dependent upon him, not to stand up for themselves.

 

[Farerb]

I'm not sure why she didn't just go with "Watch out world, here we are".

 

[Miss Rori]

I'm not sure why she didn't just go with "Watch out world, here we are".

Either it was unintentional (weren't the songs written in a hurry? Because that would explain a lot) or it's an intentional joke that doesn't land (about how stupid Bambi is). Actually, a lot of the comedy boils down to:

"Hey, this character's stupid/a flake" (re: Asha's "awkwardness", Safi's weird obsession with chickens, etc.)​

Characters insulting each other (Gabo's not so much grumpy as an insensitive jerk)​

Random anachronisms and/or references to other movies (characters talking about gluten, introversion, feeling "fulfilled", etc.; most pronounced with the animal characters)​

Weird-for-the-sake-of-being-weird ("The Happy Chicken Song", Star's pajamas, etc.)​

 

[brideck]

"Watch out world, here I are" (which might have been intended as a joke, especially given how stupid "Bambi" seems to be, but doesn't come off as one)

Eh? This is absolutely a joke. An animal that's never spoken before mangles English to preserve a rhyme. It, combined with how its voiced, gets a chuckle out of us every time we hear this song.

 

[TP2000]

I've just returned from the Chicago Comic and Entertainment Expo (C2E2) convention. There was a lot of Disney cosplay on the floor, including a lot of deeper cuts (Princess Kida, Prince John, Esmeralda, etc.) but I didn't see anyone cosplaying a character from Wish. (ShopDisney did bring out child costumes for Asha and Dahlia, and even then, no kid was dressed as them.) I find that very telling regarding the film's long-term prospects, unfortunately.

Interesting data point there that I hadn't thought of before; cosplaying at Comic Conventions as a barometer for cultural impact. Clearly, there is very little cultural impact for Wish and its new characters. Even the goat.

Something tells me I won't be seeing any Asha's or King Magnifico's on my doorstep this Halloween.

 

[Miss Rori]

The years after Moana and Encanto were released, there were lots of cosplayers doing characters from those at the conventions I attended in Chicagoland, and some are still doing so to this day. Heck, I remember that less than two months after the Beauty and the Beast remake opened, there were multiple remake-specific Belles and even a LeFou on the show floor!

Especially because they were having a meetup at this one I figured there would be an Asha or Magnifico in that lot, but no. (And even though the movie had plenty of Funko Pops and Loungefly accessories made for it, none of the many exhibitor stands selling those brands had them.) And it's not like there wasn't enough time to prepare outfits, since everyone knew what the characters looked like months in advance of release.

 

[Miss Rori]

Eh? This is absolutely a joke. An animal that's never spoken before mangles English to preserve a rhyme.

Yes, but as written just about everybody else screws up their English too and it's not presented as jokes ("eloquent dancers" instead of the likely-intended "elegant", the "little fun allegory" that isn't, lots of near and slant rhymes, etc.).

 

[brideck]

Yes, but as written just about everybody else screws up their English too and it's not presented as jokes ("eloquent dancers" instead of the likely-intended "elegant", the "little fun allegory" that isn't, lots of near and slant rhymes, etc.).

I don't think "eloquent dancers" is screwed up English. Think of how we have adages that say that visual arts are worth a thousand words. The sight of flowers moving in the breeze is certainly worth that much. And if it is, as you say, another mistake where elegant is intended, then that's just clever songwriting.

I don't have much to say about the use of allegory there except to say that at least half of the movie's viewers won't know the true definition of that word, so it's probably an overly strict reading to try to literally apply that definition here. My inferred reading is just as a synonym for story or thought.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don't think "eloquent dancers" is screwed up English.

It isn’t.

Definition of ELOQUENT

marked by forceful and fluent expression; vividly or movingly expressive or revealing… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Chicken Little]

I watched it last night for the first and last time. Just wasn't good. It will go the way of Chicken Little and Meet the Robinsons.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I have not seen a satisfying postmortem analysis on Wish yet. Its performance at the box office was just - weird. Really weird. Yes, I know there were quibbles with the plot. But can anyone say with a straight face that Trolls 3 and Migration had stronger openings because they had airtight plots that you just couldn’t argue with? Something bigger than a few plot inconsistencies went wrong with Wish, although I’m not sure what it was.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I have not seen a satisfying postmortem analysis on Wish yet. Its performance at the box office was just - weird. Really weird. Yes, I know there were quibbles with the plot. But can anyone say with a straight face that Trolls 3 and Migration had stronger openings because they had airtight plots that you just couldn’t argue with? Something bigger than a few plot inconsistencies went wrong with Wish, although I’m not sure what it was.

I chalk it up to general Disney fatigue and this movie not having any aspect that would grab people's attention.

Wish was more the same, another "princess" movie, and without a viral soundtrack or legitimately funny humor to make it stand out. Everything about it was mid, not worth rushing to see in a theater vs waiting 3 months for Disney+

Trolls 3, Migration, and Kung Fu Panda 4 don't bring anything new to the table either, but they are safer bets to please younger children and they have a kind of obvious junk food appeal to that demographic.

Disney movies typically benefit from more cross generational appeal, but the kinds of people who would see them without kids didn't care this time.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I chalk it up to general Disney fatigue and this movie not having any aspect that would grab people's attention.

Wish was more the same, another "princess" movie, and without a viral soundtrack or legitimately funny humor to make it stand out. Everything about it was mid, not worth rushing to see in a theater vs waiting 3 months for Disney+

Trolls 3, Migration, and Kung Fu Panda 4 don't bring anything new to the table either, but they are safer bets to please younger children and they have a kind of obvious junk food appeal to that demographic.

Disney movies typically benefit from more cross generational appeal, but the kinds of people who would see them without kids didn't care this time.

That's an interesting take... I have wondered if the YouTube generation is just going to have different tastes. Everything on YouTube is fast, instant gratification gags, no need to even follow a 90 minute plot. I don't know if that's enough to explain a 64 million box office by itself, but combined with the Disney+ effect it might be.