Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

TsWade2

Well-Known Member
While I'm still upset that Wish is a box office flop (except it's a hit on DisneyPlus! Deal with it!), but that success of The Boy and the Heron got me thinking. Since TBATH is hand drawn animated movie that did great at the box office and it did won an Oscar for Best Animated Feature Film, I'm thinking Disney might be noticing it and probably taking notes. And probably realize that Bob Iger is wrong about hand drawn animation not being relevant. And prove Jennifer Lee wrong that hand drawn animation being limited. So I think maybe Disney will use Wish being a flop as a learning experience and maybe bring back hand drawn animation and make hand drawn animated movies again with CGI of course. I know this maybe hard to believe, but because of what happen with TBATH, you'll never know what will happen in the future. ;)
 
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Miss Rori

Well-Known Member
No, I don't think that the success of something like The Boy and the Heron will inspire Disney to try and rebuild a 2D animation unit. Anime in general has happily been hand drawn/digital hybrid work for years now and becoming increasingly popular internationally, so Disney beancounters have known about such success stories for a while and done nothing.

Indeed the problems Studio Ghibli has had in the past 10 years or so largely stem from challenges in finding and retaining Miyazaki-level talent, and training potential successors to filmmakers like him (owing to wildly exacting standards). Disney would have to build a new 2D studio effectively from scratch; a lot of the talent that worked with the studio in the '90s/early '00s have moved on, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of up-and-coming 2D talent in the west who could form a new base of operations. When I think about it, there were really only two generations' worth of 2D animators at Disney: The original unit headed up by the Nine Old Men, followed by the '70s/'80s hires who managed to pick up the baton after a few fumbles.
 

Miss Rori

Well-Known Member
The other thing about The Boy and the Heron doing as well as it did was that it was by most accounts an exceptionally-made film, a fantasy with compelling characters and stakes. If anything it (and Wonka) may have contributed to any positive word of mouth Wish had not kicking in for families and thus why it didn't have box office legs like Elemental did. They had superior options available to them.

Regarding me (and others) being overly picky about a "fairy tale"'s logic: I don't think Wish works on the emotional/moral logic that actual fairy tales or fairy tale-inspired fantasies like some of the better Disney films or movies like Labyrinth and a lot of Roald Dahl adaptations do. So much of its story is overly complicated and/or not properly explained: We never are presented with a reason why Asha deserves to have the blessing of Star's help, for instance. She is not a put-upon hero/ine like Cinderella, Charlie Bucket, or even the ostracized Belle, whose kindness and selflessness is rewarded after great trials, who bring out the best in others. But unlike Sarah in Labyrinth or the Beast, she isn't tasked with becoming a better person through her experiences either. Everything she thinks is proven to be right; other characters apologize for not trusting her/agreeing with her when they had perfectly valid reasons not to. Sabino doesn't do anything to deserve having his wish granted aside from being a very old man and the heroine's relative; he was too lazy to try achieving his simple dream on his own! Those are the kinds of characters the audience wants to see knocked down a peg, while Magnifico (at least initially, prior to using the book) is at worst a self-serving and petty person, who lost everything in his backstory but nonetheless worked hard and created a prosperous kingdom from the ground up. But his good deeds mean nothing to Our Righteous Heroine.

I find it fascinating how much more logical and interesting the early concepts for the film are. Asha and her family and others living as fugitives, Amaya being just as bad as her husband, etc. seem much more suited to a "proper" fairy tale, and the whole setup is actually simpler!
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Regarding me (and others) being overly picky about a "fairy tale"'s logic: I don't think Wish works on the emotional/moral logic that actual fairy tales or fairy tale-inspired fantasies like some of the better Disney films or movies like Labyrinth and a lot of Roald Dahl adaptations do. So much of its story is overly complicated and/or not properly explained: We never are presented with a reason why Asha deserves to have the blessing of Star's help, for instance. She is not a put-upon hero/ine like Cinderella, Charlie Bucket, or even the ostracized Belle, whose kindness and selflessness is rewarded after great trials, who bring out the best in others. But unlike Sarah in Labyrinth or the Beast, she isn't tasked with becoming a better person through her experiences either. Everything she thinks is proven to be right; other characters apologize for not trusting her/agreeing with her when they had perfectly valid reasons not to. Sabino doesn't do anything to deserve having his wish granted aside from being a very old man and the heroine's relative; he was too lazy to try achieving his simple dream on his own! Those are the kinds of characters the audience wants to see knocked down a peg, while Magnifico (at least initially, prior to using the book) is at worst a self-serving and petty person, who lost everything in his backstory but nonetheless worked hard and created a prosperous kingdom from the ground up. But his good deeds mean nothing to Our Righteous Heroine.

I find it fascinating how much more logical and interesting the early concepts for the film are. Asha and her family and others living as fugitives, Amaya being just as bad as her husband, etc. seem much more suited to a "proper" fairy tale, and the whole setup is actually simpler!
None of this has anything to do with what I called unreasonable, though. It’s one thing to criticise character development and narrative logic—both fair game—but quite another to ask why magical spheres don’t follow the laws of physics.
 
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TsWade2

Well-Known Member
No, I don't think that the success of something like The Boy and the Heron will inspire Disney to try and rebuild a 2D animation unit. Anime in general has happily been hand drawn/digital hybrid work for years now and becoming increasingly popular internationally, so Disney beancounters have known about such success stories for a while and done nothing.

Indeed the problems Studio Ghibli has had in the past 10 years or so largely stem from challenges in finding and retaining Miyazaki-level talent, and training potential successors to filmmakers like him (owing to wildly exacting standards). Disney would have to build a new 2D studio effectively from scratch; a lot of the talent that worked with the studio in the '90s/early '00s have moved on, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of up-and-coming 2D talent in the west who could form a new base of operations. When I think about it, there were really only two generations' worth of 2D animators at Disney: The original unit headed up by the Nine Old Men, followed by the '70s/'80s hires who managed to pick up the baton after a few fumbles.
Everybody's a critic, but what can you do? :rolleyes:
 

TsWade2

Well-Known Member
Wish maybe a flop at the box office, but it became number 1 in streaming charts this week. I was going to gloat you guys, but that will make me a troll, so I guess you guys decide to believe that or not. But I’m happy about it.
 

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
I recently got around to watching Wish, and...we laughed out loud at how bad the movie was. I haven't read all of this thread, but the songs were especially bad, IMO. I agree with much of the last few pages of comments. (Mostly I avoided any spoilers and only read 1 short review before watching the movie. So I had some idea it did not do all that well, but I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt and form my own opinion.)

One plus of Wish was that it was visually appealing.
 
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BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
I recently got around to watching Wish, and...we laughed out loud at how bad the movie was. I haven't read all of this thread, but the songs were especially bad, IMO. I agree with much of the last few pages of comments. (Mostly I avoided any spoilers and only read 1 short review before watching the movie. So I had some idea it did not do all that well, but I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt and form my own opinion.)

One plus of Wish was that it was visually appealing.
That’s one opinion.
 

Miss Rori

Well-Known Member
I recently got around to watching Wish, and...we laughed out loud at how bad the movie was. I haven't read all of this thread, but the songs were especially bad, IMO. I agree with much of the last few pages of comments. (Mostly I avoided any spoilers and only read 1 short review before watching the movie. So I had some idea it did not do all that well, but I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt and form my own opinion.)
Browsing through comments on Bluesky of those who have seen the movie (some of whom had no idea it existed until it hit streaming) since it hit D+, a common complaint is that the songs are subpar. The most common complaint is that the whole thing feels generic/AI-generated.
 

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
The most common complaint is that the whole thing feels generic/AI-generated.
Our reaction to the chicken dance was, who thought this was a good idea? Chickens firing eggs from their rear ends? Just, no.

Then when Asha's group is supposed to go into hiding, they immediately start banging drums and singing as loudly as possible?!?!?
That doesn't even begin to make sense.

Back when I saw the early ads for this movie, I thought it had great potential. Too bad it wasn't better.
 

Miss Rori

Well-Known Member
Remember - they cut Sabino singing "A Wish Worth Making" after he gets his wish back, but kept "The Happy Chicken Song". That says a lot about the weird priorities the filmmakers had with this movie. The scene where he gets it back, as is, seems like a brief formality rather than the climax of an important plot thread; there's no time for everyone to appreciate it before Magnifico comes in and it becomes clear Asha's really screwed everything up for everyone else. Maybe they should have waited until later in the narrative for Sabino's plot to be resolved?
 

Miss Rori

Well-Known Member
I can't help but think that rumor was started by someone inside Disney as a way to push the shame away from anyone who actually worked on it.
Given how interesting and more coherent the original plotline, character concepts, and animatics were, I think there was top-down meddling from executives that got in the way of the actual creatives on Wish, deliberately watering things down in hopes of being all things to all people. It would explain why Asha and her family weren't living as refugees, in hiding from a wicked King and Queen who deceive people into moving to their land (too political!), why shapeshifter Star was changed to a generic plush toy (it will sell more merchandise!), why Sabino didn't die early on (too sad!...also, maybe too much like Moana), why the Seven Teens were there (it's a cute sight gag, and we can use them as an excuse for not telling actual stories about minority cultures!), why Amaya becomes sole ruler at the end (it's not a Magic Democracy, it's a Magic Kingdom!) and so on and so on.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
and we can use them as an excuse for not telling actual stories about minority cultures!
You’re really reaching with this kind of criticism. In no iteration of the plot would “actual stories about minority cultures” have featured. Indeed, how could they have given the highly fictitious, counterfactual nature of the setting?
 
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