Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

[Phroobar]

He did say it would certainly be profitable, so unless we have Great Depression II it will make a profit for Disney.

Even The Black Cauldron made money eventually. It all depends on how long you wait. However during it's theatrical run window, it lost money.

Heck even Plan 9 From Outer Space made money forty years later.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Anyone that invested in it, even it did break even or make a small profit, probably will never see any return because of Hollywood's creative accounting.

I think you are thinking people who get a share of net profits.

If people who invested in a theoretical movie wouldn't receive a return on a small profit after theatrical alone, no one would invest! Also, recall that movies make much more income than theatrical alone, barring economic collapse.

Also, recall that Pixar accounts for production budgets differently from other studios, which could lead for the odd-sounding breakeven. Costs that are left out of the production budget for other studios are included for Pixar.

 

[Chi84]

Just to clarify, it’s not only a factor in which characters are heroes or villains, but more importantly it seems to extend to how protagonists’ character arcs are handled: e.g. “Can this character be shown to have a weakness or vulnerability, even if they eventually overcome it, or would that be problematic to portray a weakness and shortcoming with this identity?”

It seems everyone is looking for reasons to take offense these days. It’s an odd way to live.

 

[Phroobar]

I think you are thinking people who get a share of net profits.

If people who invested in a theoretical movie wouldn't receive a return on a small profit after theatrical alone, no one would invest! Also, recall that movies make much more income than theatrical alone, barring economic collapse.

Also, recall that Pixar accounts for production budgets differently from other studios, which could lead for the odd-sounding breakeven. Costs that are left out of the production budget for other studios are included for Pixar.

Then you should present proof of that Pixar production budget.
According to the Numbers, it is $200 million. That is all we have to go by. Therefore theatrically it lost money.

 

[Disney Irish]

He never said it made a profit or how much that was. The movie made $495,851,987 world wide. Production budget was $200,000,000 + $100,000,000 for advertising. Of that distribution takes half the gross. This leaves a net loss of -$51,574,006.

There is a lot of nuisance lost in those numbers.

First is that the $200M "reported" budget included administrative costs that other Studios don't count, as explained by Pixar. So that is not the real production budget of the film, that number is actually less than that.

Second is that there is no reported marketing budget for the film. That $100M is not the real number, its a guess, a number based on a "rule of thumb", which isn't always accurate.

Basically only Pixar/Disney know the real numbers, Studios never provide real profit/loss numbers publicly. So that loss number you quote is shaky at best, and likely wrong.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Then you should present proof of that Pixar production budget.
According to the Numbers, it is $200 million. That is all we have to go by. Therefore theatrically it lost money.

This conversation has become convoluted. You realize you are accusing the head of Pixar with fraud?

 

[Phroobar]

There is a lot of nuisance lost in those numbers.

First is that the $200M "reported" budget included administrative costs that other Studios don't count, as explained by Pixar. So that is not the real production budget of the film, that is actually less than that.

Second is that there is no reported marketing budget for the film. That $100M is not the real number, its a guess, a number based on a "rule of thumb", which isn't always accurate.

Basically only Pixar/Disney know the real numbers, Studios never provide real profit/loss numbers publicly. So that loss number you quote is shaky at best, and likely wrong.

Those numbers could be far higher and at an even larger loss. We don't know. It's the numbers we have to work with.

 

[Phroobar]

This conversation has become convoluted. You realize you are accusing the head of Pixar with fraud?

How is it fraud? Did he "cook the books"?

He just said he was happy with the performance to PR. That doesn't mean it made money. Most execs will lie through their teeth when talking to the press.

 

[Disney Irish]

Those numbers could be far higher and they are at an even larger loss. It's the numbers we have to work with.

It could be more, or it could even be profitable.

The point is that if the Studio themselves is stating a specific target number for box office in order to be better than breakeven, then we should take them at their word. There is no reason to state a specific amount otherwise, you just keep quiet about it and let the media report on it.

 

[Phroobar]

It could be more, or it could even be profitable.

The point is that if the Studio themselves is stating a specific target number for box office in order to be better than breakeven, then we should take them at their word. There is no reason to state a specific amount otherwise, you just keep quiet about it and let the media report on it.

Sorry but I'm going to believe a falsehood.

 

[Disney Irish]

Sorry but I'm going to believe a falsehood.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. But it wouldn't make sense for a Studio executive to state a specific number otherwise. I mean its not like they came out and said this about Lightyear or any other Pixar film that underperformed recently. So it makes more sense for what he said to be correct rather than a falsehood.

And besides having this one movie be seen as profitable isn't going to change Disney's year, it'll still be seen as a bad year. So you're not betraying the dark side here, I think you'll be ok.

 

[TalkingHead]

Just a reminder that the box office disappointment Encanto opened to only $40.6M over its opening 5-day Thanksgiving weekend in 2021.

^^while COVID was still disrupting ticket sales

 

[Advisable Joseph]

How is it fraud? Did he "cook the books"?

He just said he was happy with the performance to PR. That doesn't mean it made money. Most execs will lie through their teeth when talking to the press.

He said it would breakeven at about $460 million, so yes.

Either Pixar is cooking the books somehow, fraudulently reporting on them, or the estimates aren't working correctly in this case.

Skepticism is one thing, but it can be taken too far.

 

[TalkingHead]

Until two weeks later when Spider-Man:No Way Home opened to a $260M weekend.

Apparently, COVID was completely cured during those two weeks.

Which was heralded as the big “movies are back, baby” moment. Point is Encanto performed better in a worse market. Disney nostalgia ain’t what it used to be.

 

[BuddyThomas]

But a lot've people here on this freakin forum says it's a flop and lot've people don't like Disney anymore.

A lot of people on this forum hates everything that Disney does and they celebrate any failure. They are ridiculous, so just ignore them all.

 

[TsWade2]

You can believe whatever you want to believe. But it wouldn't make sense for a Studio executive to state a specific number otherwise. I mean its not like they came out and said this about Lightyear or any other Pixar film that underperformed recently. So it makes more sense for what he said to be correct rather than a falsehood.

And besides having this one movie be seen as profitable isn't going to change Disney's year, it'll still be seen as a bad year. So you're not betraying the dark side here, I think you'll be ok.

For once, I’m glad you came to the rescue to help me to end my overdramatic anxiety moments.

 

[Stupido]

Question for those who have seen it;

Spoiler: Spoiler

I've heard rumors the end tries to imply the movie is an origin story for parts of other Disney movies, including implying the king ends up being the Magic Mirror from Snow White.

Is that true?

(I hope it isn't.)

Actually,

Spoiler: Spoiler

Kind of? When Magnifico is defeated, he is sucked into his mirror staff, and the magic mirror face flashes on the screen for half a second. He's shown in the mirror realm with his human face after this, but it's up for debate what that means, as well as Asha's future.

 

[Disney Irish]

COVID - like streaming, price of movie tickets, inflation, weather, and war in Gaza are excuses that only impact Disney movies.

Somehow Mario, Spider-Man, Barbie, Top Gun, Oppenheimer, etc, etc. are immune to these powerful forces.

I can’t wait to see what is invented to cover this latest disaster. Dog ate my homework? Sun got in my eyes? Too many farting goat movies in the marketplace?

And yet you can point to big budget movies like MI:7 that also failed as showing its not just impacting only Disney.

 

[BuddyThomas]

And yet you can point to big budget movies like MI:7 that also failed as showing its not just impacting only Disney.

He knows this. He is just trying to win the award for Snarkiest Poster. Again.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Disney has to continue with animation, or else it has nothing to offer consumers other than Iger's acquisitions, which at present aren't too healthy either.

What would be nice is if Iger would finally learn the lesson. And show it. A good start would be if he did a major purge in his corporate offices. Get rid of the agenda people. Bring back creatives that have left the company, like Pete Docter. Assure the public that the company is going in a new direction - or rather in the old direction - the Walt direction. Keep out of the culture wars. Focus on wholesome, creative family entertainment. Maybe, if he did that, the public that's currently angry at and avoiding Disney would eventually trust it again. But that's going to be very difficult, if it's possible at all.

It pains me to say it as an Iger fan but I don’t think anything will change until Iger himself is gone.

Disney needs a reset from the top down, Iger, the board, the creatives… they need an Eisner/Wells reboot to find new energy and life.