Winnie the Pooh's Hunny Hunt

[General Grizz]

If screen technology can improve the story and meaning of Spaceship Earth (we'll have to see about this), then that's fine. But I have special concern over the animatronics; > 225 AAs have been lost from Epcot without replacement. That would increase to 285 should SE lose its figures, leaving less than a hundred in Future World.

I guess some people don't TRUST Disney if they were to go in and change Spaceship Earth. The gorgeous sets and animatronics from Horizons, World of Motion, and Journey into Imagination were replaced by a single screen, a warehouse, or a bunch of random props, respectively (in the eyes of those who marvelled at the true art of the originals). No animatronic was leftover in any rehab, and they did not necessarily appeal to guests of the origianl attractions. Granted, the design of Test Track complements its story, but for fans, and that's who I'm talking about here, of the originals - and Animatronics for that matter - it's a tragedy.

Plus, perhaps its better to keep at least ONE set/animatronic based ride in Future World to keep variety and a unique form of showmanship no other company can mimick; a screen base are oh so popularly used in Universe of Energy, Wonders of Life, Mission Space, Soarin', Circle of Life, The Living Seas, Canada, France, China. . . We know that Universe of Energy may have a massive rehab coming up, why not use it there?

That's why hearing the rumor that SSE could use its animatronics worry them. I certainly think screen technology should be used to complement the attraction - and I HOPE SSE gets the most dazzling new special effects known to man for its 2007 rehab - but, because SSE is now one-of-a-kind in its design and immersive story nature, I believe at least a bunch of animatronics should remain - or be updated.

 

[speck76]

If screen technology can improve the story and meaning of Spaceship Earth (we'll have to see about this), then that's fine. But I have special concern over the animatronics; > 225 AAs have been lost from Epcot without replacement. That would increase to 285 should SE lose its figures, leaving less than a hundred in Future World.

I guess some people don't TRUST Disney if they were to go in and change Spaceship Earth. The gorgeous sets and animatronics from Horizons, World of Motion, and Journey into Imagination were replaced by a single screen, a warehouse, or a bunch of random props (in the eyes of those who marvelled at the true art of the originals). Granted, the design of Test Track complements its story, but for fans of the originals - and Animatronics for that matter - it's a tragedy.

That's why hearing the rumor that SSE could use its animatronics worry them. I certainly think screen technology should be used to complement the attraction, but, because SSE is now one-of-a-kind in its design and immersive story nature, I believe the animatronics should remain - or be updated.

I am not against AA's. and I understand many people are fans of that form of technology.....I don't think it is the best way, or the only way to tell the story. I don't know that there is a "best way", but I think a better way is probably a combination of many different methods.....AA's, screens, and other technologies.

Possibly, Epcot was too havy with AA's.....although the stories of each attraction were different, the experience was not that different to the typical visitor. Although Epcot has dumped many AA's, by doing so, they have become a more diverse park, adding other experiences, and creating different ways of telling a story.

 

[General Grizz]

I am not against AA's. and I understand many people are fans of that form of technology.....I don't think it is the best way, or the only way to tell the story. I don't know that there is a "best way", but I think a better way is probably a combination of many different methods.....AA's, screens, and other technologies.

Possibly, Epcot was too havy with AA's.....although the stories of each attraction were different, the experience was not that different to the typical visitor. Although Epcot has dumped many AA's, by doing so, they have become a more diverse park, adding other experiences, and creating different ways of telling a story.

That could be very true, but Spaceship Earth is the last attraction to truly feature them. Although adding variety was the original intent, variety would be taken away by losing this type of unique attraction.

 

[speck76]

That could be very true, but Spaceship Earth is the last attraction to truly feature them. Although adding variety was the original intent, variety would be taken away by losing this type of unique attraction.

Variety would only be lost if a technology already present at Epcot was used......if it was something new, diversity would still exist.

 

[marni1971]

Interesting discussion

Screens (of any format) are a great way to communicate (no pun intended) as and when they are appropiate, but Disney is famous for its AA`s (no longer the only user, but hey!) - If a story could be told with AA`s or a screen, I`d hope to go with the AA`s. They still produce the Disney tingley `wow` factor - life like, 3 dimensional, usually accompanied by extravagant sets (as Grizz said, only SSE in Futureworld has these now, Energy aside)

IF SSE`s AA`s were swapped for screen technology (2d,3d, CAVE or whatever) I`d be disappointed. Its a quick fix that costs more in the short run (TPP to make & edit the video, install the projection/display systems) but in the long run saves on upkeep of AA`s - much more expensive than a new screen now & then and a projection bulb / Solid State storage (I would hope). USF`s Spiderman is an awesome experience - still pretty much state of the art - and it works because it was designed that way, with no option to use set piece animation. An attraction like SSE would not work - the screens / projections currently in use work great in tandem with the AA`s, but you can`t start having one set with AA`s, then a few screens, then more AA`s - the rides flow would break. Even the Minimaltronics (a great word I read at a certain website I shan`t mention here) installed in the `94 rehab for the finale work well, since they are supplemented, not replaced, by various forms of projection.

One comparisson sticks in my mind. Rightly or wrongly, I`m not to judge, and I`m sure the DCA version is an awesome ride, but look at the ToT`s - Florida has one `projection` floor using image technology on a real set, and one full 3D environment the guest travels through. Anaheim relies solely on projection effects and we all read the comments about the lack of a 5thD floor that even now gives the attraction a negative image.

Image/Screen technology is great when properly used (SSE beginning of time, American Adventure backdrop, even the videophone screens in old AE) but it is a supplement, not a replacement, for Audio Animatronics. IMHO.

Phew.. as I said, interesting discussion guys! And Happy New Year.

Oh, BTW, Grizz - you mentioned the ammount of AA`s lost from Epcot since `82.. you wouldn`t happen to have a list of the total AA`s in each original attraction (and Horizons) would you? I can`t get accurate / any figures. Cheers.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Nicely put marni... I agree 100%...

 

[Montu]

Does anyone know, in the Tigger scene (bouncy bouncy fun fun fun fun fun...) do the individual honeypots bounce on their chassis, or is it the floor that goes up & down? The ride vehicles look amazing enough (trackless, full rotation, quick induction charging..) without having a motion base as well.

Everything bounces around the hunny pots - the walls, the props, etc, in the Tokyo version.

 

[Lynx04]

I would love to see the ride tech used in the Tokyo Pooh, used at WDW. I hear that there are some problems that still have to be solved. If I remember correctly items that emit a radio signal interferes with the ride. Items like cell phones can cause the ride to break down from what I have heard. The ride looks great thought and I hope that WDW uses it soon.

As far as the technology cost, at least they have most of the R&D done on the tech, now they have to just perfect it. I have to agree with Grizz, that the Imagination pavilion in EPCOT would be a great spot to use this tech, but I think they need a whole new theme for that pavilion, or at the very least a better way to present it.

 

[Montu]

I would love to see the ride tech used in the Tokyo Pooh, used at WDW. I hear that there are some problems that still have to be solved. If I remember correctly items that emit a radio signal interferes with the ride. Items like cell phones can cause the ride to break down from what I have heard. The ride looks great thought and I hope that WDW uses it soon.

As far as the technology cost, at least they have most of the R&D done on the tech, now they have to just perfect it. I have to agree with Grizz, that the Imagination pavilion in EPCOT would be a great spot to use this tech, but I think they need a whole new theme for that pavilion, or at the very least a better way to present it.

The technology is virtually the same as that used at Universe of Energy, The Great Movie Ride and the Tower of Terror. I'm not sure that the cell phone thing is accurate at all, though having never worked in Tokyo I couldn't prove it for sure.

The ride system follows embedded wires in the concrete - just like the other mentioned WDW attractions do. Only difference is there is more than one wire in the ground, and the Tokyo Pooh dispatches three vehciles at a time - each which follow different wires around the show scenes to make them look like they have their own unique paths of travel. It's a really neat effect though.

 

[Lynx04]

The technology is virtually the same as that used at Universe of Energy, The Great Movie Ride and the Tower of Terror. I'm not sure that the cell phone thing is accurate at all, though having never worked in Tokyo I couldn't prove it for sure.

The ride system follows embedded wires in the concrete - just like the other mentioned WDW attractions do. Only difference is there is more than one wire in the ground, and the Tokyo Pooh dispatches three vehciles at a time - each which follow different wires around the show scenes to make them look like they have their own unique paths of travel. It's a really neat effect though.

The ride doesn't use magnetic track system, it uses a new tech. I am trying to find some good sources on the tech and so far this is what I have found, I will post more as I come across it.


http://www.thedibb.co.uk/forums/showthread/t-15153.html

Trackless ride vehicles that follow a random path by relying upon unseen transmitters in the floor (Pooh's Hunny Hunt, Tokyo Disneyland, 2000)


http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID110040.asp

Pooh's Hunny Hunt, the $100 million E-Ticket attraction which opened at Tokyo Disneyland (TDL) this past September... is incredible! It blows me away! I find its creative use of video projection, the fluid movement of its Animatronics, and its rich lighting impressive in their own right, but its innovative trackless ride system has me in awe! The four to six passenger honey pot themed ride vehicles depart the loading area in groups of three. Through the course of the ride, they turn, spin, reverse direction, stop, bounce, and narrowly avoid colliding with each other and their surroundings, while performing a fast paced high-tech ballet. I've never experienced anything like it. I've ridden it on several occasions and I still marvel at it like it's my first time. But, even though Hunny Hunt is located in Fantasyland, unfortunately, Fantasyland is located squarely in reality.

The sun hasn't always shone on TDL's Hundred Acre Wood. Hunny Hunt has had a history of constant breakdowns. It's been common for it to not open with the park, due to technical difficulties. Once up and running, it's been standard for the attraction to cease operating (go "101" in Cast Member (CM) speak, or in the case of Tokyo Disneyland, "ichi zero ichi"), sometimes for extended periods, several times over the course of the day. The ordeal has been stressful for the attraction's technicians, not to mention the CMs who have to fend off irate guests (Yes, even in Japan.). But hold on. The situation isn't all that bad. Actually, it's completely normal.

The problems have resided mainly in Hunny Hunt's use of it's impressive new trackless ride system. It's the first of its kind to go into operation. And like every innovative new ride system, from the Matterhorn - the first roller coaster with a tubular steel track and individual breaking (block) zones that allow for multiple cars on the same track, to Star Tours - the first example of flight simulator technology to be used outside of pilot training, to Indiana Jones : Temple of the Forbidden Eye with it ground breaking Enhanced Motion Vehicles (EMVs), it will take time to work the bugs out of it. It's common for the period of adjustment that a new ride system goes through before it operates smoothly to last for months. Even then, a first of its kind system will very often require much more babying than its subsequent versions.

All the pre-opening testing in the world will never be enough to solve the unforeseen problems that are bound to occur when a new system is put through the grinder of relentless daily operation at the hands of guests (as the legendary Imagineer Bob Gurr has written so well about in his columns here at LaughingPlace.com).

And, as these new ride systems become increasingly more complex so, of course, do their problems.

Later in the article it says

But Hunny Hunt still has to deal with Japan's deeply held love of portable telephones, called keitai (portable) in Japanese. Although banned from all attractions at TDL, some guest choose to ignore that rule. Their love of keitai is sometimes greater than their respect for the rules. Now that's saying something! Numerous downtimes have been caused when the radio signals created by these phones interferes with the attraction's control system.

(Go to the site to read more)

 

[OliveMcFly]

Sounds like a cute idea but I think one per park is fine.

 

[Montu]

The ride doesn't use magnetic track system, it uses a new tech. I am trying to find some good sources on the tech and so far this is what I have found, I will post more as I come across it.

It's a continutation of the same track technology in the other rides I listed though. Undoubtably there has to be some tech improvements to it since the hunny pots travel on different paths - there'd need to be assurance that they don't get too close to eachother, etc, but it's still the same type of ride system. The others are not magnetic track systems either. The use of magnets is for proximity sensors to tell the ride system where the car is - but they do not tell the car where to go. An embedded wire in the "track" (for lack of a better term) is what the car follows - using something that could be likened to that of a remote control car antenna to follow it. It's a really complex ride system, and most people never even realize it was in place at Epcot for Energy at the beginning of the 80s. The majority think it was new for the Tower of Terror!

 

[marni1971]

The ride doesn't use magnetic track system, it uses a new tech. I am trying to find some good sources on the tech and so far this is what I have found, I will post more as I come across it.
http://www.thedibb.co.uk/forums/showthread/t-15153.html

www.thedibb hasn`t got its facts totally right on that list, so don`t take it as gospal regarding Pooh. One thing is for sure - the vehicle charging system has come a long way since Universe of Energy. The charging system is certainly faster (although the vehicles are admitedly smaller) and I assume they only get charged during load/unload, or perhaps they also get a `top up` when still during the ride?

Interesting - UoE no longer uses the original guidewire system, its now uses embeded `pucks` instead - the same as Spectromagic... Pooh probably uses this too since they seem to be favourite at WDI... lets see if ToT gets them aswell and cures all those 101`s in the 5th D room!

 

[Montu]

One question about that article -

Didn't Body Wars come before Disneyland's Star Tours? Or right around the same time?

It's easy enough to look up, but in all honesty, I just didn't feel like it so I figured might as well just ask and have someone else do it :slurp:

 

[marni1971]

Hi, Montu.

Star Tours finally opened in Disneyland in January 1987. Bodywars opened October 1989. Obviously both were in development at the same time, infact Bodywars `borrowed` the Star Tours ride system - a ride through the human body was long planned for Futureworld, but the original Omnimover plans kept failing at the props hurdle - WDI couldn`t get larger than life internal organs to work well enough (particularly a beating heart the vehicles would pass through) so the idea was mothballed until Disney began developing a Reddifusion simulator ride....

 

[Lynx04]

If you look at the ground on TOT, GMR, or UOE, you will see the magnetic strip that the ride vehicals travel over. Tokyo Pooh does not use any magnetic strips or use any type of embedded wire. The ride vechicals travel different directions everytime you go on the ride it from what I have heard. I am trying to find this article I read that discuss the tech. The tech has never been used on any other attraction, it is why it has the problems it does. The artical didn't go to deep into the tech because obviously they want to guard the info, but they did discuss the frustration with trying to get it to work properly. Yes the concepts are the same when it comes to a remote traveling vehical, but the tech is not

I would love to see a hybrid of the Tokyo Pooh and Spidey, now that would be out of this world. Obviously they have some obsticles to over come.

 

[Indy95]

I would love to see a hybrid of the Tokyo Pooh and Spidey, now that would be out of this world. Obviously they have some obsticles to over come.

Like budget, maybe? :lol:

 

[Montu]

Hi, Montu.

Star Tours finally opened in Disneyland in January 1987. Bodywars opened October 1989. Obviously both were in development at the same time, infact Bodywars `borrowed` the Star Tours ride system - a ride through the human body was long planned for Futureworld, but the original Omnimover plans kept failing at the props hurdle - WDI couldn`t get larger than life internal organs to work well enough (particularly a beating heart the vehicles would pass through) so the idea was mothballed until Disney began developing a Reddifusion simulator ride....

Thank you Marni, you're the friendliest lacky I've ever had

Interesting that Body Wars came in 89, and Star Tours wasn't ready to open with D/MGM that year. Was Body Wars delayed - or always planned for 89?

 

[Montu]

If you look at the ground on TOT, GMR, or UOE, you will see the magnetic strip that the ride vehicals travel over.

Like I said - the three attractions that use the autonomous guided vehicle technology do not travel because of Magnets. The Magnets along the track merely tell the computer where the ride vehicle is in the show building. They follow a wire using a radio antenna on the bottom of the car itself. Magnets do not move or guide the vehicle in any way - aside from just knowing that it is there.

The ride vechicals travel different directions everytime you go on the ride it from what I have heard.

This is completely not true. Keeping in mind I have personally ridden Pooh's Hunny Hunt in Tokyo several times, I assure you they do not follow random paths what so ever. Three Hunny Pots load at the same time and dispatch into the first scene - the storybook, which opens and you enter the 100 Acre Wood and the Blustery Day. The three Hunny pots go in one at a time and then split off, following very pre-determined paths which are determined by which load spot they started their journey at. For example - and this is just a hypothetical example - load 1 always goes left, load 2 always goes straight and load 3 always goes right.

The tech has never been used on any other attraction, it is why it has the problems it does.

I spent seven days in the Tokyo Disney theme parks, and in all honesty, I never saw the Pooh ride have a single downtime at all.

 

[Sherm00]

Winnie the pooh at Tokyo Disneyland does not have a magnetic track system. It uses GPS technology to move the vehicles around the building.

from what I hear there is major technical problems with it, the japaneese complain it's constantly down. I think pooh is a great ride now just the 3D sceneray would make it better. I would love to see however them redo mr. Toad with trackless technology and spinning cars like from roger rabbit in disneyland.