Will Epcot be pronounced dead soon?

[Matt_Black]

You exaggerate , I didn't claim they will go OOB just like Epcot will not go OOB. However it will change the feel of both places as they change from the unique to the ordinary. No one change will do it but it will be a slow bleed until the real fans of Disney suddenly realize it just not that special anymore. I kind of relate what's happening to Disney the way Classic movies get edited for tv. They remove parts for time constraints and to add more commercials to make more money. As time goes on the movie is just ok and folks no longer remember the actual intent or greatness of the original movie. No, Disney will be around for the crowds who have short attention spans and need to keep their heads down peering into their phones constantly. Yes have a cup of Starbucks and a average pastry and the good news is when you leave Disney and go home you can get one on any corner in America. You'll never tell your friends about something you had in Disney that you can't find at home.

I've stated it before, but I have no problem with Starbucks in Epcot. Their home business is Seattle, and Seattle was for a long time touted as a "City of the Future".

Now, Main Street U.S.A.? Nope, nuh-uh, nein. How exactly does designer coffee fit into Walt's vision of Small Town America?

 

[BaconPancakes]

I've stated it before, but I have no problem with Starbucks in Epcot. Their home business is Seattle, and Seattle was for a long time touted as a "City of the Future".

Now, Main Street U.S.A.? Nope, nuh-uh, nein. How exactly does designer coffee fit into Walt's vision of Small Town America?

The Nescafe they served before fit right in though...

 

[POLY LOVER]

I've stated it before, but I have no problem with Starbucks in Epcot. Their home business is Seattle, and Seattle was for a long time touted as a "City of the Future".

Now, Main Street U.S.A.? Nope, nuh-uh, nein. How exactly does designer coffee fit into Walt's vision of Small Town America?

In another setting who cares but Disney spent a lifetime on details and a very detailed idea for his parks. On the record Starbucks is a great socially responsible company I have no problem with them in that regard.

 

[POLY LOVER]

The Nescafe they served before fit right in though...

It was not the Nescafé coffee shop was it now, it was just one item they sold in the store. Starbucks is 100 percent a take over of the bakery where the bakery was removed.

 

[RoysCabin]

I've wondered about this, but what makes me most curious about all the rumors about big EPCOT changes is how they'll work vis a vis the pre-existing attractions that still retain that bit of old EPCOT Center style to them...particularly because a few of them are the biggest attractions in the entire park.

I mean, Spaceship Earth and American Adventure are the two "thesis statement" attractions in the park, and far as we know neither is going anywhere. SSE, while some may not enjoy its new script as much, is still steeped in "using history and edutainment to inspire you to think about the future" the way EPCOT Center's Future World did, while American Adventure is a multi-media cultural celebration that's meant to be indicative of the overall style and message of World Showcase. Heck, Soarin' is the current most popular attraction and even it kind of fits the mold for those types of attractions. So with those not going anywhere, will it then make sense to keep building attractions that are more in the style of Frozen Ever After or the upcoming likely Guardians coaster? It just seems like a big clash of concepts; while new attractions are sorely needed in EPCOT, the thematic confusion may well remain, so I'm stuck really wondering how that's all going to work out.

Why? Because it's an IP? So then there should be no Nemo, Crush, Three Caballeros, Frozen, or any character meals at Akershus, or meet and greets with Alice, Snow White, Baymax, Anna and Elsa, or Mickey, Minnie and Pluto at the Visa Character Spot?

...That sounds really nice, actually.

All seriousness, while I think the characters can have a place in EPCOT (though they did try to go without them for the park's first few years of existence), even as a kid I always appreciated EPCOT as the park where everything still felt really "Disney" without it feeling quite as, I don't know, I guess forced? Even as a grade schooler I kind of liked that there was a park there where my experience wasn't based around seeing Mickey and the gang, much as I loved (and still very much enjoy) them.

 

[POLY LOVER]

I love Epcot the educational aspect the great diversity with the country's and the workers from their respective country's that staff it. It's a symbol of some hope in what appears to be an atmosphere of growing hate mongering. I love what it was intended to represent, like one poster said its not all Mickey based.

 

[horizons82]

Being a teen at the time, I was thoroughly awe-struck with the original Epcot. And as much as I miss Horizons, World of Motion, Imagination, etc., I also realize those specific attractions couldn't be around forever.

And while there is a sense of nostalgia for those first attractions, the biggest disappointment I currently have comes not from losing specific attractions, but having those attractions replaced by ones which are of a completely different spirit, veering away from the original intent of Epcot...a vision which I felt was timeless.

But rather than updating and improving upon the initial concept, the current Epcot has and continues to go astray thematically, imaginatively, creatively and lacks cohesive vision.

And the lack of a forward-looking and creative vision in the Future World Section makes the whole concept of the World Showcase seem pointless because there is nothing to unify the two sections other than pavement.

In a very over-simplified sense, it would be as if Epcot were a movie theater complex designed to be a showcase for sci-fi films. Then one day they start showing a crime movie, then they start adding comedies and rom-coms. The next thing you know only one out of the twelve theaters is even showing a sci-fi film. Even though people may like the other genres being shown, those familiar with the original purpose of the theater realize it has lost its way.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The Nescafe they served before fit right in though...

Yea, it tasted like the unpaved streets of yore where many an un-diapered horse had trod!

 

[POLY LOVER]

Yea, it tasted like the unpaved streets of yore where many an un-diapered horse had trod!

Kind of the way I feel about Starbucks pastry.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Kind of the way I feel about Starbucks pastry.

Starbucks, just occupies a space in the internal facade of Main Street USA. Nothing and I mean nothing on that street actually represents the time frame that the street is supposed to represent. It's nothing more then a glorified snack/coffee refreshment area. Yes, those thousand calorie cinnamon rolls are no longer available there, big deal! Go to a Cinnabun, cause that is the same thing. All this uproar about who supplies the coffee. Well, I guess I shouldn't comment because to me coffee taste like filtered cesspool so it has no affect on me at all. I don't see where it really altered the looks of MSUSA and is the same old story about how we want Disney to upgrade as long as they don't change anything. It's a coffee shop, it never was intended to be an exact replica of the early 1900's Main Street. And even if it did that would mean that the street itself would be the dirt that I spoke about earlier. We don't seem to have a problem overlooking that little detail.

 

[POLY LOVER]

Starbucks, just occupies a space in the internal facade of Main Street USA. Nothing and I mean nothing on that street actually represents the time frame that the street is supposed to represent. It's nothing more then a glorified snack/coffee refreshment area. Yes, those thousand calorie cinnamon rolls are no longer available there, big deal! Go to a Cinnabun, cause that is the same thing. All this uproar about who supplies the coffee. Well, I guess I shouldn't comment because to me coffee taste like filtered cesspool so it has no affect on me at all. I don't see where it really altered the looks of MSUSA and is the same old story about how we want Disney to upgrade as long as they don't change anything. It's a coffee shop, it never was intended to be an exact replica of the early 1900's Main Street. And even if it did that would mean that the street itself would be the dirt that I spoke about earlier. We don't seem to have a problem overlooking that little detail.

I guess then we can just shut down the boards because if there are no valid arguments concerning the integrity of the THEME parks we can all just go back to our hunt for Pokemon. Enough said lets get back to the point of this thread.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

As soon as they announce guardians to replace Ellen will that signal the end of Epcot as we know it? And will the cause be the lack of imagination by Disney to bring fresh ideas that work with the intent of Epcot?

They are REALLY pushing this lacklustre movie aren't they? I thought it was awful. First it is announced to replace Tower of Terror in Disneyland (something that I would say 95% of Disney fans loathe, not that Disney bothers to care of course) now this? Yikes.

 

[Matt_Black]

They are REALLY pushing this lacklustre movie aren't they? I thought it was awful.

You may not have liked it, but a lot of people did. Plus, Marvel Studios managed to make a successful movie with incredibly obscure characters, whereas Warner Brothers is struggling with Superman, a character who's had 70+ years of success.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

You may not have liked it, but a lot of people did. Plus, Marvel Studios managed to make a successful movie with incredibly obscure characters, whereas Warner Brothers is struggling with Superman, a character who's had 70+ years of success.

When you take the best ride in an entire park and re-theme it you are doing something wrong and are playing to the attention deficit crowd. The other 95% of us do not like it. Can you imagine Pirates of the Caribbean being re-themed into..........Frozen or something? Neither could I.............two months ago.

 

[Matt_Black]

When you take the best ride in an entire park and re-theme it you are doing something wrong and are playing to the attention deficit crowd.

ToT is the best ride in DCA? Perhaps, BUT I see many here saying the WDW version is far superior.

The other 95% of us do not like it.

Doubtful. There's a vocal group on the internet that's not happy about that, but there's also a vocal group on the internet that hates John Cena, and he's somehow still managed to be the WWE's top guy for nearly a decade and a half.

This is the "Echo chamber effect". People on the internet like to aggregate in forums where there are people of a similar mindset. Their opinions are constantly reinforced by people who share those opinions, and thus they assume that the rest of their chosen fandom agrees with them.

 

[LongLiveTheKing]

When you take the best ride in an entire park

If you're gonna say one of the best rides in the park then fine but how is it the best ride in DCA? Most atmospheric maybe but it's just a drop ride that tells a story.

 

[SeaCastle]

As soon as they announce guardians to replace Ellen will that signal the end of Epcot as we know it? And will the cause be the lack of imagination by Disney to bring fresh ideas that work with the intent of Epcot?

This is the "Echo chamber effect". People on the internet like to aggregate in forums where there are people of a similar mindset. Their opinions are constantly reinforced by people who share those opinions, and thus they assume that the rest of their chosen fandom agrees with them.

I think the mileage will vary here. Ask that initial question to an online discussion board of Disney diehards and history buffs and you'll get answers like the ones you see here. If that question was asked on TripAdvisor or Yelp, I'm sure the responses would be different -- what does Epcot (or EPCOT) really mean to the average visitor? What metric are we using to judge how EPCOT is defined-- rides from 1982, Cardon Walker's statement at EPCOT's dedication, Walt's vision, or themed rides that don't fit in anywhere else in the resort? Are we judging EPCOT's intent based solely on having rides like Living with the Land or Spaceship Earth?

If we judge EPCOT based solely on what was operating in the park in say, 1986, then obviously the current EPCOT does not fit that intent. But that EPCOT hasn't been around for more than two decades. As someone that never went to EPCOT in the 20th century, whatever Marvel attraction that gets shoehorned is no more or less disruptive than Soarin' over California, Nemo, Frozen, or Ellen DeGeneres (and I like Ellen...and Puddy!). To me, the question of whether Marvel is the final nail in the coffin for EPCOT's original intent is totally subjective because that intent has never seemed to be constant for any more than five years at a time.

 

[Matt_Black]

Anyway, to answer the question posed in the thread title, Epcot will not be pronounced "dead" anytime soon. You see, Epcot is a two-syllable word, while dead is only one. You'd need a massive restructuring of the rules of the English language before that's even feasible.

 

[LongLiveTheKing]

Anyway, to answer the question posed in the thread title, Epcot will not be pronounced "dead" anytime soon. You see, Epcot is a two-syllable word, while dead is only one. You'd need a massive restructuring of the rules of the English language before that's even feasible.

Well we could call it Deadcot and that's technically two syllables.

 

[marni1971]

ToT is the best ride in DCA? Perhaps, BUT I see many here saying the WDW version is far superior.

Doubtful..

WDW has the superior version. So? Should WDWs Pirates be ripped out and rethemed since DL and DLP have superior versions?

Not as doubtful as it seems. DL GR has been inundated with hate over Chapeks latest mistake. Not an echo chamber effect.