Will Epcot be pronounced dead soon?

[erasure fan1]

You may not like Starbucks (personally, I have no use for it either) however, many do appreciate it being there. It is a compromise between the past and the 21st century. I can assure you, from reading things from Walt Disney, that he did not want a museum.

Agreed, but the problem (at least for me and a lot of others as well) is not that starbucks is there, it's that we lost something we really liked when we shouldn't have. They could have easily made a new place and left the main street bakery but this was the cheaper way to go. The MK could always use more places for food/snacks.

If as adults, we didn't already know about that stuff, we must have done a lot of daydreaming while we were in school. I don't remember learning anything at all that I didn't know before I got there. I was 35 when it opened. Married with two kids, I think that qualifies as grown up. I enjoyed it, but, I never learned anything that I didn't already know.

I never really looked at it as learning but more as experiencing. as a kid I loved sea base alpha because I knew I would never actually be in an underwater research facility. Or I would never see dinosaurs or ride through the human body....

As for the OP, I agree with Epcot was dead a long time ago. Lets face it, Disney has absolutely ZERO respect for theme anymore and that will not change anytime soon (maybe never). It's an absolute shame and I really hope there are more like myself who talk with their wallets. But sadly from the looks of the crowds I am a minority by far.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Agreed, but the problem (at least for me and a lot of others as well) is not that starbucks is there, it's that we lost something we really liked when we shouldn't have. They could have easily made a new place and left the main street bakery but this was the cheaper way to go. The MK could always use more places for food/snacks.

Here in lies the conflict with the argument. I'm sure that you loved the old Main Street Bakery, however, to say that WE lost something WE really liked, when WE shouldn't have is really a situation where you need to exchange the word WE for the word I. All we hear lately about Disney is how money mad that they are, how they are profit motivated, etc. and are only after the almighty dollar. OK, if that is true why can no one figure out that they never would have closed down a money maker if it were indeed a money maker. It was popular for you and a number of others, but, certainly not, in this day and age of watching sugar intake, calories, and nutritional benefits would that be the majority. In other words, it wasn't able to support itself in whatever way Disney determines that it should. It's gone because, in spite of what you and a few others liked, it wasn't enough. People would go in, buy there cup of coffee and cinnamon roll** and go out all the while complaining about how there wasn't enough room to sit down and enjoy it. And since it was a small place it always looked extremely crowded.

**Let's face it the only thing missing now is the Cinnamon Roll, which I believe is available at Gaston's Tavern and they needed to get people off Main Street and into the more open areas of the park.

 

[Ol' Br'er Fox]

Dear lord I hope not. I want to see Epcot at least once in my lifetime before I die.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

What are the other 2 good things?

I was going to add Starbucks and Tapestry of nations but decided they didn't qualify for that list.

 

[erasure fan1]

Here in lies the conflict with the argument. I'm sure that you loved the old Main Street Bakery, however, to say that WE lost something WE really liked, when WE shouldn't have is really a situation where you need to exchange the word WE for the word I. All we hear lately about Disney is how money mad that they are, how they are profit motivated, etc. and are only after the almighty dollar. OK, if that is true why can no one figure out that they never would have closed down a money maker if it were indeed a money maker. It was popular for you and a number of others, but, certainly not, in this day and age of watching sugar intake, calories, and nutritional benefits would that be the majority. In other words, it wasn't able to support itself in whatever way Disney determines that it should. It's gone because, in spite of what you and a few others liked, it wasn't enough. People would go in, buy there cup of coffee and cinnamon roll** and go out all the while complaining about how there wasn't enough room to sit down and enjoy it. And since it was a small place it always looked extremely crowded.

**Let's face it the only thing missing now is the Cinnamon Roll, which I believe is available at Gaston's Tavern and they needed to get people off Main Street and into the more open areas of the park.

See the reason Disney is cheap is the fact that both places are needed based on crowds. But Disney opted to replace the bakery because they didn't have to front anything (I'm sure Starbucks footed most if not all the bill) so they can make more money and do less. I don't blame them for putting in a Starbucks but again its addition by subtraction. I really don't see people counting calories as you say, just look at the ice cream parlor or the candy shop, always busy just like the bakery was. Neither you or I will ever know the financials of the bakery but I would be shocked if it wasn't making a ton of money.

 

[Goofyernmost]

See the reason Disney is cheap is the fact that both places are needed based on crowds. But Disney opted to replace the bakery because they didn't have to front anything (I'm sure Starbucks footed most if not all the bill) so they can make more money and do less. I don't blame them for putting in a Starbucks but again its addition by subtraction. I really don't see people counting calories as you say, just look at the ice cream parlor or the candy shop, always busy just like the bakery was. Neither you or I will ever know the financials of the bakery but I would be shocked if it wasn't making a ton of money.

But, they added Gaston's Tavern. Just because it's just a few feet away doesn't make it not an added thing. There was just replacing the MS Bakery with a MS Bakery with Starbucks things (plus some of the bakery items). So I have always had a problem with figuring out what the heck the problem is. It's still there just changed the menu. And added another eatery to NFL.

Ice Cream on a hot day is quite different then a Cinnamon Roll and that is the only thing that is missing now. So I still feel that the demand has dropped over the last few years due to health and nutrition concerns. I love both the Cinnamon Rolls and the Ice Cream, but, when I feel that I should at least try and limit my empty calorie intake, I will drop the Roll every time.

 

[Scrungo]

When are they changing the name to IPCOT?

 

[ShoalFox]

When are they changing the name to IPCOT?

According to everyone here, they already have

 

[CaptainAmerica]

As soon as they announce guardians to replace Ellen will that signal the end of Epcot as we know it? And will the cause be the lack of imagination by Disney to bring fresh ideas that work with the intent of Epcot?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Science is hard. And predicting the future takes vision.

The current crop of Imagineers are ill equipped for such endeavors. They better stick with comic book and cartoon characters. And even with that they have shown stunning ineptitude.

 

[POLY LOVER]

See the reason Disney is cheap is the fact that both places are needed based on crowds. But Disney opted to replace the bakery because they didn't have to front anything (I'm sure Starbucks footed most if not all the bill) so they can make more money and do less. I don't blame them for putting in a Starbucks but again its addition by subtraction. I really don't see people counting calories as you say, just look at the ice cream parlor or the candy shop, always busy just like the bakery was. Neither you or I will ever know the financials of the bakery but I would be shocked if it wasn't making a ton of money.

It's the reduction in employees and benefits that is the lure to Disney . If you can charge Starbucks a huge fee and have no responsibility it's a win. I disagree but I'm not going to start the arguments with folks that could care less. I say Burger King, McDonald's bring them all in and then turn Main Street into a Walmart. No on cares anymore. The only push back you would get today is if they prohibited folks from searching for Pokemon.

 

[Matt_Black]

I say Burger King, McDonald's bring them all in and then turn Main Street into a Walmart.

Don't give them ideas!!!

 

[Brad Bishop]

11.8 Mil in attendance last year. 2 Mil more than Uni..........yeah.....no...........won't be pronounced dead.

Could it use some improvements? Sure.

I see people boast numbers like this and I think that it's forgotten that those numbers are like that because it's all WDW and you get a lot of "..may as well since we're here"-folks.

Pick up Epcot and put it in the middle of, say, Texas. Does it survive? Does it have those kinds of numbers? I think, in that situation, the numbers are A LOT lower. I think the same is true for DHS (I think DHS would be shuttered if it were anywhere else).

Then again, if Epcot were all on it's own in the middle of Texas they probably would have taken better care of it because it'd be far more obvious that it was having troubles because you wouldn't see MK over flow in it or the "..may as well.." folks. I'd argue that it's both a beneficiary and a victim of it's location.

Other parks, outside of WDW, actually have to survive on their own or they'll be shuttered. They have to improve, offer more, keep things up, etc. When they don't they see attendance fall. WDW could do nothing to Epcot for another 10 years and you'd still see similar numbers just because of it's location. In a way, WDW has already proven this with their track record on both DHS and Epcot.

 

[S 2]

But, they added Gaston's Tavern. Just because it's just a few feet away doesn't make it not an added thing. There was just replacing the MS Bakery with a MS Bakery with Starbucks things (plus some of the bakery items). So I have always had a problem with figuring out what the heck the problem is. It's still there just changed the menu. And added another eatery to NFL.

Ice Cream on a hot day is quite different then a Cinnamon Roll and that is the only thing that is missing now. So I still feel that the demand has dropped over the last few years due to health and nutrition concerns. I love both the Cinnamon Rolls and the Ice Cream, but, when I feel that I should at least try and limit my empty calorie intake, I will drop the Roll every time.

Calories don't exist in the world of disney.

 

[Matt_Black]

Calories don't exist in the world of disney.

All food in Disney has a healthy dose of Vitamin M. The "M" of course stands for "Magic"!

 

[VanellopeVonSchweetz]

As long as the World Showcase stays intact (enough), I think I'll survive. Though they got rid of Maelstrom which was my FAVORITE ride there, lame

 

[Goofyernmost]

As long as the World Showcase stays intact (enough), I think I'll survive. Though they got rid of Maelstrom which was my FAVORITE ride there, lame

Hey, nice first post (if it is), however, I must say that if Maelstrom is your FAVORITE ride in Epcot, you really haven't been paying attention to the rest of them. Have a good day (magical) anyway and, if new, welcome to the boards.

 

[trampdog]

I think the answer is best served by technology. EPCOT (as we remember) was created before the Internet. It was created before mobile devices. People did not have access to the type of information that is available today. If you wanted to learn about history, you went to a museum or went to the library to look it up in the Encyclopedia (unless you were lucky/rich enough to own your own set. EPCOT was never really what Walt had envisioned anyway. It was more of a permanent World's Fair. Aside from Innovations, it became more of a living history museum. Even innovations was rendered useless after the World Wide Web took a foothold. Innovation today does not spend too much time on the test floor. Most innovations are pretty much direct-to-market.

EPCOT World Showcase is not going to go away. It will remain the living history museum of Disney World. However, it will evolve as well. As cultures become more and more homogeneous (not that I am personally happy about that), what happens in France may not be that different than what happens in Mexico. In other words, people will eventually assimilate into one culture (again, not a good thing - but your governments would rather you think it is).

Future World was never really all about future, so it makes sense to minimize the infrastructure costs (water, sewer, electric, etc.) and rebuild it into what essentially would be another park. This has been done before and not only by Disney. Just look at their neighbor down the road.

Technology has been a blessing for us. Unfortunately, it does have a strong effect on our past. As technology evolves, so will humans, and the worlds they build. Hmmm... that sounds close to something I heard in a big giant golf ball.

 

[cheezbat]

Hey, nice first post (if it is), however, I must say that if Maelstrom is your FAVORITE ride in Epcot, you really haven't been paying attention to the rest of them. Have a good day (magical) anyway and, if new, welcome to the boards.

Everyone has their favorites. I've been to Epcot so many times I've lost count. But guess what? Maelstrom was my second favorite ride behind only Spaceship Earth. Maelstrom was fun! Frozen is okay, but has absolutely nothing to do with Norway and it's really just a short ride quickly retelling the movie.

 

[BaconPancakes]

It's the reduction in employees and benefits that is the lure to Disney . If you can charge Starbucks a huge fee and have no responsibility it's a win. I disagree but I'm not going to start the arguments with folks that could care less. I say Burger King, McDonald's bring them all in and then turn Main Street into a Walmart. No on cares anymore. The only push back you would get today is if they prohibited folks from searching for Pokemon.

There's a movie coming out on November 4th that just about sums you up...