Will Disneyland USA suffer? ALL Of Disney's Theme Parks Now Closed - Reopening Dates Unknown

thenerdbaker

Well-Known Member
Thank you, doctor! I really do appreciate it.

I heard tonight on the news that 80% of these cases so far result in symptoms that are simply like the common cold or the average flu. 15% deal with a bad flu. And the remaining 5% of the cases are more severe, and those are generally confined to those who are very elderly and fragile, those who have underlying bad health problems (morbid obesity, diabetes, etc.), or those with compromised immune systems (HIV, cancer patients). And those statistics are coming out of China where so many of the folks getting this flu are life-long smokers and living in very polluted cities with compromised lung capacity that can't handle a flu that impacts the lungs.

So with that, I'll just sit back and watch the Millennials freak out about this latest flu, if you don't mind. And I'll wash my hands a couple extra times each day, and use those sanitizing wipes on the shopping cart when I go down to my Ralph's Fresh Fare tomorrow.

Everyone else, carry on. Panic! Freak out! You're all going to die!
Your not wrong about the millennials freaking out. Here in Seattle apparently the Costco's have had a lot of business in the last few days. I'm going to assume the local Fred Meyer is about to be the same. Last year it snowed and the same thing happened. I say this as a millennial myself that people need to calm down a little.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Your not wrong about the millennials freaking out. Here in Seattle apparently the Costco's have had a lot of business in the last few days. I'm going to assume the local Fred Meyer is about to be the same. Last year it snowed and the same thing happened. I say this as a millennial myself that people need to calm down a little.

Thank you. And I certainly don't mean to paint everyone in your generation with a broad brush, but you have to admit that many of them make it very easy.

It's good to know there are some young folks that have a good head on their shoulders. I am just baffled at the idea that a new strain of the flu would cause all this panic and freak out. Especially for non-smokers living in the clean environments of America in the 21st century.
 

A Noble Fish

Well-Known Member
Thank you, doctor! I really do appreciate it.

I heard tonight on the news that 80% of these cases so far result in symptoms that are simply like the common cold or the average flu. 15% deal with a bad flu. And the remaining 5% of the cases are more severe, and those are generally confined to those who are very elderly and fragile, those who have underlying bad health problems (morbid obesity, diabetes, etc.), or those with compromised immune systems (HIV, cancer patients). And those statistics are coming out of China where so many of the folks getting this flu are life-long smokers and living in very polluted cities with compromised lung capacity that can't handle a flu that impacts the lungs.

So with that, I'll just sit back and watch the Millennials freak out about this latest flu, if you don't mind. And I'll wash my hands a couple extra times each day, and use those sanitizing wipes on the shopping cart when I go down to my Ralph's Fresh Fare tomorrow.

Everyone else, carry on. Panic! Freak out! You're all going to die!
Not sure I'm seeing anything that indicates that this whole societal panic over the Coronavirus is tied to a specific generation. It's not like they're the ones running the big media companies who are creating and fanning the flames. ;)
China's pollution and the enormous smoking population there are definitely having an effect, but it would be naive and disgusting to not take this seriously since we do not know how it will act and how it will evolve. It also is worth noting that the weaker people you mentioned are still worth protecting; hopefully, herd immunity will help those people, but it's far too early to tell. The press in general just wants to sell a story, and unless it's smearing someone or factually inaccurate, it doesn't do much harm other than taking away from more important stories. For news to be profitable it has to be entertaining after all.

The reactions are still varied, but it's something we should treat seriously. All reputable news organizations have been fact-based and professional.

I hate to say that it's not a big deal. It is a big deal, but it's not an end-all situation like the doom and gloomers say. It's a situation that must be addressed professionally, logically, and to preserve lives, and so far it has been done like that. I don't watch cable news much, I prefer to read AP News, Reuters, and others, but even from what I have seen, they're not going berzerk. The bigger problem are echo chambers on networks of misleading info, but that's a whole other topic.

Unlike the unsubstantiated panic for Ebola and the Zika Virus (unless you, yourself, traveled to infected regions), Coronavirus has shown an acute ability to spread rapidly and undetected. This isn't Planet of the Apes where everyone dies. It seems that the worst-case scenario is this becomes a yearly occurrence like the flu, but a tenfold more deadly one. If it infects close to as many people even modest estimates could see hundreds of thousands dying here a year. That is not something to play around with. We spend so much money a year on government programs like Medicaid and Defense, but relatively little on science and infrastructure that will help in situations like these. That has to change.

Fortunately, it seems to be more related to SARS than coronavirus in that it may not mutate as quickly as the flu. Without China's lockdowns, this would have exploded, and democracies cannot have lockdowns to that extent. China is underreporting its numbers just like they do with their debt and other areas. I disdain conspiracy theories like the ones emerging about the Coronavirus' origins, but we cannot trust China's numbers. South Korea is a better example of how this virus will play out over the short term.

No point to attack millennials, every generation has their own baggage, but the people overly freaking out are just that: people overly freaking out. I'm not even a millennial, but it's silly to have talking points like that when the fears are cross-generational, and primarily amongst older people who fall for phishing emails, and don't rationalize, but that would be mean to say wouldn't it? Like when they fell for that caravan that was dangerous...

It's a tricky situation, with a lot of uncertainty. What's key is that we band together as the humans we are to take this on in a non-alarmist, fact-based, intelligent manner. Government funding for vaccine research, prevention measures, supplies, medical staff, and other good government policy is how you tackle this as a country to the best of our ability. As a citizen, we avoid gathering, frequently wash our hands (not 5 seconds, but 20 like people always should), telecommute, change business procedures, and kick nail-biting habits.

A large concern is our limited hospital capacity (I don't see us building hospitals in 10 days), and the risk that people stay home and brush it off as nothing if they cannot afford healthcare. Fortunately the at-risk elderly are supplemented with Medicare, but there are many people who are unemployed without health insurance or employed with awful coverage. There's also the paid leave situation in the US that would damper containment in a dire situation. What I am saying is every country has its unique strengths and weaknesses, and we don't know for sure until it happens here. We need to get the message out that if you have this you must quarantine and receive treatment if necessary.

I predicted the stock market crash this week, but so many people tried to rationalize the irrational: that it couldn't happen, and now people are rationalizing paranoia. People are so predictable in the ways they move with emotions and not logic. There might be a slight rebound but it will go lower as soon as Asian and to a lesser extent US stocks reveal abysmal earnings. Summer will make or break this thing, but I don't see a world where the Tokyo Olympics are not postponed-- it's unlikely it gets canceled outright with the stake Japan has in it.

A bit outside the discussion, but I felt it gives some clarity to my understanding of the situation:
You know, let's also just set something straight for people reading this because I've seen a lot of people blaming politicians for the coronavirus and the economy, and for what they're actually responsible for. This isn't a political affront to people, but more so just a discussion of how things work. Unless a President has great longterm economic policies, his/her effect on the economy is extraordinarily negligible. Bad policies short and longterm like those that exasperated the Great Recession and Depression are the outliers and that's why they fell so hard, but it's naive to place blame solely on a President for routine economic recessions and growth periods. High oil prices etc. that could affect economies are not fully their fault, but over the longterm, it does matter what foreign policy and economic structures/investments are made since being energy-dependent is in itself bad policy which can affect economic health. Anyway...

Effective governing is pragmatic governing with good monetary and fiscal policy that understands how the world operates and is therefore what helps get the most out of economies. With the Coronavirus, people should not blame leaders, unless the response itself is weak or they were lied to (ex. Iran). If people just thought rationally and took the time to research they'll find that systems work differently than they imagined instead of being blinded by ideology, conspiracy theories, or instead fears (or lack of thereof) of a pandemic. However, if an official goal is to cut everything in government or expand everything they're both equally ideological and don't actually understand how to handle a scenario like this. This is why I'm frustrated with the reactions so far to the coronavirus because it already seems like people are taking stances instead of thinking clearly. It's not something to lose sleep over, but at the same time, effective approaches are absolutely essential to better this country and as a human.

We'll find out next year to what extent this will be, but it's not an insignificant number of lives, and frankly, your point actually makes a case that other diseases should be better researched and not just cast-off as merely a fact of life. Car crashes, suicides, shootings, diseases should all get far more attention. Wouldn't it be a great world if everyone thought through things rationally?
 
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Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member

>>
Tracking coronavirus: Anaheim ready
Coronavirus2


ANAHEIM, Calif. (Feb. 27, 2020) — While there are no coronavirus cases reported in our city, Anaheim continues to monitor the outbreak, consult with partner agencies and ready plans should we see cases here.
Precaution and preparation are always good, even though there are no known cases in Orange County today and the risk of transmission remains low, according to health officials.
Wednesday’s declaration of a local health emergency by the county of Orange, home to Anaheim, is a preparative move that would allow county officials to seek state and federal aid, should it be needed.
It does not reflect the current state of the coronavirus in our county, where, again, there are no active cases.
As of late February, there has been only one known case of coronavirus in Orange County, in the city of Irvine. That patient has recovered.
As an international visitor city, we continue to monitor cases around the world and here in the U.S., as we always do when public health issues arise.
Los Angeles International Airport, the main international airport serving Anaheim and Orange County, is one of 11 airports across the country screening passengers arriving from outbreak areas.
If you have not been to China, South Korea, Japan, Italy or Iran recently, the risk of infection remains low.
Beyond general precautions, there are no specific concerns for daily activities in Anaheim, including going to school, work or visiting theme parks, sporting events or the Anaheim Convention Center.
As a city, we routinely prepare for fires, earthquakes and other incidents. As a precaution, we are planning how to handle coronavirus cases here, should we see them.
The primary responsibility for handling infectious outbreaks is with the Orange County Health Care Agency, which we are in regular contact with.
Anaheim Emergency Management & Preparedness, a division of Anaheim Fire & Rescue, is leading on city planning and response should we encounter cases here, all in support of any leading actions taken by the Health Care Agency.
Helping to prevent the spread of any catchy virus, whether it’s the flu, coronavirus or the common cold, takes everyone.
The basic precautions to prevent the spread of coronavirus are similar to avoiding the flu or a cold.
  • Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds
  • If soap and water aren’t available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60 percent alcohol
  • Wash or sanitize your hands before eating, after blowing your nose, coughing or sneezing
  • Don’t touch your eyes, nose, and mouth with unwashed hands
  • Avoid close contact with people who are sick
  • Stay home if you’re sick
If you are traveling to Anaheim or a resident traveling elsewhere, you should also follow some basic precautionary guidelines.
  • Wash and sanitize your hands often
  • Don’t touch your eyes, nose, and mouth with unwashed hands
  • Avoid close contact with people who are sick
  • Cover yourself when sneezing or coughing
  • If you have any health concerns check with your doctor before traveling
  • Don’t travel with a fever or respiratory sickness
You can find more information from the OC Health Care Agency here.<<
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
It’s also worth pointing out that it is not considered best practice (or choosing wisely) typically to swab and PCR everyone with viral or flu symptoms.

So whether we talk about under reporting or hospitalization rates, the data will be skewed. There are many, many people (maybe even the majority) that had no idea what strain of influenza or virus they just contracted last week. They likely just stay home or freely continued to shed it publically. Naturally the population is jumpy and likely the testing and hospitalization rates right now will be skewed. China is not reporting accurate numbers, not because they have something to hide, but because this is not how Western Nations would typically test with such frequency and fear.

The second reported case is interesting in that there isn’t enough to interpret its meaning. Many people have ongoing viral shedding, or PCR results, well after the fact. That maybe aren’t correlated to the current viral symptoms they have from something new. It’s an ultra sensitive test. Many (most) cold viruses can be contracted multiple time with usually lesser symptoms. The details are not particularly unusual - but “if it didn’t kill you the first time it’ll get you the second time” is a more exciting news byte.

Viral shedding is not correlated to infectivity. If it’s coated in IgM. But the test doesn’t work that way.
 

DrAlice

Well-Known Member
3 exposure cases resulting in self-quarantine in my area (by area, I mean location and profession) has sent my email box spinning with administrator-speak emails this morning. I can feel the panic rising in my neck of the woods. :(

I've been trying to be one of the voices of calm around here (and at work), but it is worth noting that people are probably going to panic anyway and an ounce of preparedness goes a long way. Make contingency plans for childcare and working from home in case there are closures in your community.
 

truecoat

Well-Known Member
Have we seen a death of a Westerner in a Western country yet? A country with low 21st century rates of smoking, with much cleaner air and environment, with a much better health care system like the USA or Western Europe? The death of a person who has healthy lungs not damaged by years of smoking Communist cigarettes and living in smoggy and dirty Chinese cities?

The death rate in Italy has held steady with what China is seeing.
 

Mickeyboof

Well-Known Member
Why didn’t the parks close for other outbreaks in the last few decades? What’s different this time?

(Unless they did, and I’m just woefully ignorant)
 

Communicora

Premium Member
I’ve seen things that say this virus is different (and worse) because it can spread even when the host has no symptoms, but isn’t that the case for a lot of viruses?
I wonder if it is because of how long it can live on surfaces. I've read that coronavirus can live for up to 9 days. Influenza can live for up to 48 hours.

I'm worried about the impact on our healthcare system. Our hospitals are already overcrowded. They were treating people in the waiting room and on chairs in the hall last time my dad had to go to the ER.
 
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Nirya

Well-Known Member
Why didn’t the parks close for other outbreaks in the last few decades? What’s different this time?

(Unless they did, and I’m just woefully ignorant)

Well, Shanghai Disney wasn’t around yet, which is one part.

The other is that Coronavirus is much longer-lasting, and doesn’t immediately show symptoms, so someone could be walking around with the disease and look totally normal. SARS, for example, was pretty quick from infection to symptoms, which made it easier to secure public spaces. On a similar note, I assume this is why so many in the scientific community are warning about this growing to a global pandemic, because it’s a slower-gestating strain than other big diseases.
 

flutas

Well-Known Member
I’ve seen things that say this virus is different (and worse) because it can spread even when the host has no symptoms, but isn’t that the case for a lot of viruses?

It's a factor of how long you can be contagious without knowing it, some sources I've seen said up to 14+ days whereas the common flu is usually about 2 days iirc. So basically it can live on a surface for up to 9 days, you can then be infected and spreading it for up to 14 days before ever showing symptoms. This would lead to someone sick potentially getting someone else sick and them not knowing for up to 23+ days.

EDIT: Welp, 10th case in CA just confirmed in Santa Clara county.
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
There are 3 locations being built right next to Disneyland Hong Kong to house coronavirus patients.

I wonder if they'll do a daily parade for them, just to keep the Disneyland CM's employed? 🙂

Back in Anaheim, what would it take for Disneyland to close for a few weeks to a few months? Some sort of government decree, or just a voluntary response to the public panic? Disneyland never closed during the Hong Kong Flu pandemic of 1968-1969, and that killed a million people worldwide, including 34,000 Americans. I relayed my own personal experience with the Hong Kong Flu earlier in this thread. I can fully understand and see demonstrated daily now that this flu has become highly politicized in an election year and fueled by a media frenzy, but if Disneyland hasn't closed previously during very bad flu outbreaks, would they have to do so now due to our current age and Social Media culture? That would seem extremely silly to me, but somehow it wouldn't surprise me.

Back in China, I read an interesting article on Slate.com today. But some interesting statistics on the death rate from this current Coronavirus thus far, although these stats are from the Communist Chinese so should be taken with a grain of salt.

Coronavirus Death Rates in China:
Children Age 0 to 10 Years = 0.0%
Healthy Adults = 0.2%
(remembering that "healthy" in China still smoke regularly and live with polluted air)
Elderly and Chronically Sick = 14.8% (although it's hard to tell if they died because of Coronavirus, or just with Coronavirus in addition to other medical problems)

The article goes on to state that the appearance in Northern California of a Coronavirus patient who had no known contact with a Chinese person or anyone who traveled to China may be a good sign. That is because it's likely this Coronavirus is already circulating widely among Americans this flu season and either they show no symptoms because their immune system fought it off, or they just think they have their annual winter cold or flu and are medicating it themselves after a Target run for some Nyquil and Tylenol and herbal tea (don't forget the Coaxium!).


But I can only wonder at this point what it would take to close Disneyland USA in this current environment of mass hysteria and panic? In the meantime, I'm washing my hands a few times per day and am about to pull the trigger on some stock buying next week to hopefully catch some undervalued stocks on the upside. :cool:
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Also of interest is that this would be just latest flu to originate in China and spread worldwide. The 1918-19 Flu that killed tens of millions (before the advent of antibiotics and advanced medicines) was brought to North America and on to Europe by a batallion of sick Chinese soldiers sent across Canada by rail before they went on to fight in World War I in France.

The Hong Kong Flu of 1968-69 that became very bad in America in 1969 (but never closed Disneyland) started in... Hong Kong and then was transferred by American servicemen returning from Vietnam.

But all of these Chinese flu pandemics start in the crowded and culturally different cities of China. They live literally stacked on top of each other, eating freshly killed live animals from meat markets, putting whole dead bats in their soup on a Saturday night, smoking a pack of cigarettes per day like it was 1962, breathing horribly dirty air, etc., etc.

Here's beautiful downtown Wuhan, a city of 11 Million people with a population density of 3,200 per square mile...

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That type of living environment isn't exactly Irvine, or any other average American suburb. Or even city. The average American suburb has a population density of 1,200 per square mile.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The flu is caused by influenza viruses.

Yes. And some of the most virulent and infamous strains of the last century came from China. 1918-19, 1968-69, 2003-2004, 2019-20, etc.

Here's an interesting video on how the very bad flu of 1918-19 originated in China in 1917 and was brought to North America via a Chinese army battalion sent to help fight in World War I. Just in case anyone is bored on a Friday night.

 
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