Will Carnival Cruise Incident Affect Disney Cruise Line?

[sweetpee_1993]

After they were waterboarded in the secret jail under Disneyland?

Not that it pertains to this topic at all or that Disney "killed" those guests (strange choice of words), but there were 2 separate incidents that resulted in the deaths of 2 guests at Disneyland during a period of what many reflect upon as a period of maintenance decline within the past 15 or so years. You can look them up. One was the sailing ship Columbia & the other was Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Both are said to be results of poor maintenance. I do not believe this is an issue at present. The parks out west seem to be getting boat loads of TLC in recent years.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not that it pertains to this topic at all

If people think Disney's image is part of why they should be more trusted, then it does pertain to the issue. If those incidents have fallen out of public consciousness why could the same not happen with incidents on the Disney Cruise Line? Why would the Disney Cruise Line before insulated from the cost cutting that hit maintenance at Disneyland and now seems to be hitting Walt Disney World? If this sort of mentality still exists inside Walt Disney Parks and Resorts then I would not just assume it cannot reappear and spread.

 

[tracyandalex]

While I agree that the mentality exists with the Disney name, I think folks would separate the parks and the crusieline. I believe DCL while still under P&R is still separate from the parks.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

If people think Disney's image is part of why they should be more trusted, then it does pertain to the issue. If those incidents have fallen out of public consciousness why could the same not happen with incidents on the Disney Cruise Line? Why would the Disney Cruise Line before insulated from the cost cutting that hit maintenance at Disneyland and now seems to be hitting Walt Disney World? If this sort of mentality still exists inside Walt Disney Parks and Resorts then I would not just assume it cannot reappear and spread.

Nobody said it couldn't happen on a Disney ship. Anything is possible. Leading up to the Carnival incident was ongoing reports of maintenance issues, problems on other ships, AND mechanical issues causing delays on the Triumph in the weeks (& years) leading up to the occurrence that the topic is based upon. Dropping in with a simple "How many people know Disney killed 2 guests in Disneyland?" is pretty far out in left field without some dots to connect things and bridge the gap to the cruise line. For someone who doesn't know about those guests' deaths at DL or doesn't know the current temperature of things on other parts of the forums pertaining to WDW parks maintenance, they would see that sentence and think that made no sense whatsoever. It's a strong statement to leave without a little more information to bring it around to where you meant for it to be. I knew what you meant when you said it but could also see where it was waaaaaay off in it's simplicity for anyone who didn't. It's not what you said, it's what you didn't say. I'm not disagreeing with you because what you say (about DL & WDW) is absolutely true. ((Don't even get me started on the maintenance at WDW because I think you'd find us largely in the same side of the bleachers on that one. )) The possibility of budget cuts, etc. effecting the cruise line in the future is always there. However, that's not currently a trend I've personally witnessed (unlike WDW) nor have I read of anyone else making those observations regarding the cruise line of recent on this forum or on another very active forum. Unfortunately, that's not the case with the Carnival Triumph which had people discussing mechanical issues and delays to sailings prior to the one that had the crippling trouble.

Also, I did highlight a funnel fire on the Magic in the past. I acknowledged that things can and do happen on all ships, including Disney's. But, when you think about it, things can and do happen on all vacations. Such is life. We can't live in a bubble, right?

 

[jaklgreen]

It is not the fire that bothers me as these things unfortunately happen, but the way they handled it afterwards. They should have towed the boat to the nearest port, let those people off and flew them home and not held them hostage in those conditions for 5 days. That was Carnival just looking after their own bottom line and the the health and safety of their guests.

 

[flynnibus]

It is not the fire that bothers me as these things unfortunately happen, but the way they handled it afterwards. They should have towed the boat to the nearest port, let those people off and flew them home and not held them hostage in those conditions for 5 days. That was Carnival just looking after their own bottom line and the the health and safety of their guests.

A nice suggestion - that ignores that almost a third of the passenegers (900 of 3000+) did not have passports that would allow that to happen. Imagine if Carnival dropped you off in a country that you weren't allowed to actually enter.. or travel back to the US from. How excited would that make you?

 

[ChuckElias]

Imagine if Carnival dropped you off in a country that you weren't allowed to actually enter.. or travel back to the US from. How excited would that make you?

To be honest, a LOT more excited than I would be to poop in a bag. You could at least sit in the terminal, use the bathroom, sleep in climate controlled conditions.

 

[Master Yoda]

A nice suggestion - that ignores that almost a third of the passenegers (900 of 3000+) did not have passports that would allow that to happen. Imagine if Carnival dropped you off in a country that you weren't allowed to actually enter.. or travel back to the US from. How excited would that make you?

This is one of those times where the local governments should have stepped in and offered an exception. Sure it was not life or death, but 2 days on the good ship Poopsalot would have been better than 5. Because either they did not or Carnival simply did not ask, I have a feeling that it is only a matter of time before cruise lines start requiring passports for all cruises.

 

[flynnibus]

To be honest, a LOT more excited than I would be to poop in a bag. You could at least sit in the terminal, use the bathroom, sleep in climate controlled conditions.

and take how long to actually get resolved.. and have to work through a foreign government AND your own ineffective government.

How many stories do you hear of people of people being stranded in an airport and being happy about it? The terminal and other areas do not have the capacity to absorb and handle 4000+ people at once or for any period of time.

 

[flynnibus]

This is one of those times where the local governments should have stepped in and offered an exception. Sure it was not life or death, but 2 days on the good ship Poopsalot would have been better than 5. Because either they did not or Carnival simply did not ask, I have a feeling that it is only a matter of time before cruise lines start requiring passports for all cruises.

You expect CBP and the government to be able to work quickly and work outside the system and to be able to do that in less than 2 days? You are far more optimistic about the agility of our federal government - who has notroiously moved slower than that.. even in the face of true life and death.

Here, some people lived a rustic life for a few days and got to learn what it means to live in a disaster impacted area.

 

[ChuckElias]

and take how long to actually get resolved.. and have to work through a foreign government AND your own ineffective government.

Who cares???? The option is eating onion sandwiches, pooping in plastic bags, and sleeping in a room with no AC and the distinct aroma of sewage.

How many stories do you hear of people of people being stranded in an airport and being happy about it?

And how many stories did you hear from people who were happy about their final 5 days on the ship? I think you're totally underestimating how miserable it was on-board. JMO, obviously.

The terminal and other areas do not have the capacity to absorb and handle 4000+ people at once or for any period of time.

But the vast majority of those 4,000 would depart from the terminal immediately. It wouldn't have to support very many of those people for more than a day or two.

Honestly, get me off the ship ASAP, and sort out the details later.

 

[flynnibus]

And how many stories did you hear from people who were happy about their final 5 days on the ship? I think you're totally underestimating how miserable it was on-board. JMO, obviously.

I think a lot of people are exaggerating or being over dramatic... taking the situation in parts of the ship and acting like that 100% of the ship was like that. Sucky? Yes.. living on the edge? No

 

[ChuckElias]

I think a lot of people are exaggerating or being over dramatic...

Just for the record, let me repeat one more time... They were. . . POOPING. . . IN . . . ZIPLOC. . . BAGS!!!

That's not an exaggeration, and that's not being overly-dramatic. That's just the fact. If you're saying you'd rather live like that for 5 days than be dropped off at the wrong terminal and possibly have to wait a couple of days to leave, then we simply disagree.

And nobody here has said that they were "living on the edge" or in any real danger. (Grave danger? Is there any other kind?) But again, you asked how excited we'd be to be taken immediately to the wrong port. And I honestly think I'd be very excited to get off that ship, even if it meant living in the terminal for 48-72 hours.

 

[flynnibus]

Just for the record, let me repeat one more time... They were. . . POOPING. . . IN . . . ZIPLOC. . . BAGS!!!

And people lived for tens of thousands of years without indoor plumbing.. and my god they survived and thrived. It's called perspective. No they weren't vacationing anymore sipping Mai Tais.. but they weren't bloody martyrs either. It sucks.. no doubt.. after having the type of luxuries we all have grown accustomed to, it's a shock when those things are taken away from us.

But they also could have been fighting for their lives... living without any shelter... starving with no provisions.. or dropped in the sea itself. Instead they had to live in a way that predates their every day luxuries for 5 days so they could survive, get back to their country, and move towards getting back to their normal lives.

They are lucky their drama ended when they got back to shore. Maybe they should put themselves in the shoes of someone who has their entire life taken away from them.. and everything they own.. due to true disasters. Those people don't get to simply close their eyes until the 5th day and then everything goes back to normal.

Living without plumbing and on reduced rations for 5 days is a pittance in the grand scheme of things. Those who are acting as if they were put through a living hell should try other people's hells and recognize how lucky they are compared to some.

 

[ChuckElias]

I honestly hope I'm not coming across as combative or anything, because that's really not my intention. But you're responding, so I'm just sharing my own thoughts as well. Hopefully, this is just a good conversation. So here's my next thoughts.

And people lived for tens of thousands of years without indoor plumbing.. and my god they survived and thrived. It's called perspective. No they weren't vacationing anymore sipping Mai Tais.. but they weren't bloody martyrs either.

You're changing the subject. You asked a question: "if Carnival dropped you off in a country that you weren't allowed to actually enter.. or travel back to the US from. How excited would that make you?" And I gave an answer that I think nearly anyone would agree with. If my choices are onion sandwiches, limited toilets, and sleeping with sewage-scented ambiance OR spending 48-72 hours in a cruise terminal -- I think almost anyone would choose the latter.

Yes, indoor plumbing is a relatively recent introduction to society. But that's not really even close to the point. The point (which was made in direct response to the specific question that you asked) is that in such an enclosed space, almost any situation that includes plumbing, air conditioning, and a noticeable LACK of sewage odor is preferable to what the Carnival folks lived through for 5 days; even if it requires you to be "stranded" on land for 2 or 3 days.

And yes, they weren't bloody martyrs. But nobody (in this thread, anyway) has said that they were. We all realize that they were in no real life-threatening danger. But again, that's not really the point of what you originally asked.

You're not really trying to say that it's better to be on a cruise ship under those conditions for 5 days than to return to port immediately, even if it means being stuck there for a couple of days. . . are you?

 

[jaklgreen]

And I said they should have taken them to the nearest port not pull up to a deserted island. The nearest port was probably Cancun or Cozumel which handles thousands of tourist at a time and I would thing they would not have much problem dealing with them at hotels/airports etc. As for the people with no passports, first off shame on them, you should never leave the country without a passport even on a closed loop cruise because you never know what can happen, second, it is not like Mexico would have held them captive, in cases of emergencies like this, governments find a way to help people out and not leave them stranded. And for the person who was saying that people do not have indoor plumbing and they should stop complaining, first off, having an outhouse is different then having thousands of people in an enclosed area with no fresh air circulation and the plumbing backing up. The fact is Carnival did what was best and most economincal for them even if it meant it was not what was best for the passengers.

 

[flynnibus]

You are comparing to options that were not available.

There was no return to port immediately option. There is no option to stay in a terminal for days.

The comment was made that they were taken to al because that was to carnival, not the guests benefit.

The choice to go north was cited based on the ships position, currents, and ease for transfer for guests without passports.

The original thoughts of going to Mexico by Wednesday were invalidated by the time the tugs were able to get to the ship.

So the comparison was really, goto Mexico by Wednesday or Alabama by Thursday. The former became less practical by the time towing started.

And yes, others have painted the people as going through hell, etc on other threads here

 

[ChuckElias]

There was no return to port immediately option. There is no option to stay in a terminal for days.

I understand that. But again, that's not what you asked. You asked, "How excited would you be. . .?" And the answer is, "VERY", given the conditions that existed on the ship.

If you're now saying that Carnival did the best they could possibly do, I might be willing to say that's possibly true. But that's an entirely different point from the question -- which you posed -- that I've been discussing.

 

[MaryJaneP]

I'll join the "give me land, anywhere, as soon as possible" contingent, even if it was without passports. Land anywhere, with or without indooor plumbing, is preferable IMHO to pooping in a bag with 4000+ others in an enclosed space. As others have said, I would even support the "risky" idea of transferring off the diabled ship to get to shore even sooner.

 

[tracyandalex]

Besides the obvious safety and capacity concerns, it there any reason folks could not have been transferred to another ship? Are there laws/regulations that would prevent something like that because this was not a Titanic type situation?