wide angle lens question

disneygirl76

Carey Poppins - Nanny and Disney Enthusiest
Original Poster
Hi all,

I have a canon digital slr camera. Its the rebel xsi. I have a zoom lens and a standard lens that comes with it.

My issue is that my standard lens does not zoom enough and the zoom, well it zooms to much. I was talking to a friend and said that I wanted to get a new lens for this next Disney trip. I wanted one that can zoom more then my standard lens and also allows me to take better night time pics without using a tripod. For example, how to get pics of the Spectro Magic parade. She suggested I get a wide angle lens. She also liked it b/c it allows for softer more natural light pictures which I like.

Does anyone have any recommendations on which wide angle lens I should get?

They have kits that add on to your exsisting lens. Do those work?

Thanks!
 

RonAnnArbor

Well-Known Member
No, the lenses you add to your other lens make things DARKER and SLOWER...You want a separate stand-alond lens for that type of thing.

The faster the speed on your lens (example f 1.8) the easier it will be to take lower light shots with handholding your camera.

If you want a decent walk-around lens that you can also use wide-angle without too much distortion, something like the TOKINA 11-16 lens (about 650.00) would be okay, although it isn't fast. Your best bet is a prime lens like the 50mm 1.8 (about 110.00) or the 50 mm 1.4 (about 350.00).

I use a nikon and have a 35mm 1.4 speed that works great.

Make sure you understand the difference between a zoom lens and a wide angle lens. There is no such thing as a "zoom lens" that is a wide angle lens. The closest thing you will get to that is the Tamron 18-270 (or the standard 18-200 lenses in both Canon and third party). They are not fast, and night shots will be harder. Image Stabilized lenses will work better than those that are not, but IS will double the price of those lenses as well.

But just beware: you will NOT be happy with the results you get with any of the accessory lenses that you put on top of your regular lens. Unless you are taking photos in bright sunlight, those will be unusable in nighttime shots.

One other thing you might consider: compact cameras are now so good, that you will get better shots all around at WDW by leaving your dSLR at home, and bringing along, for example, a Canon s100, or a Panasonic ZS10 (or one of its older models ZS7 or ZS3). They have great zooms, but also take excellent night shots.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
It sounds you like need a couple of lenses to do what you are looking for. Something like the Canon 18-200mm will give you a very flexible zoom lens, which offers a fairly wide view, and a lot of telephoto capability. ie. the 18mm end of the zoom is fairly wide, and the 200mm is very "zoomed in". However, this lens is not good at letting in a lot of light, and will not do the job for things like the MSEP. For that, you need something more specialized, like an f1.4 lens. I would say though, that photographing MSEP well is one of the harder things to do well with a DSLR at WDW. So unless you are getting serious at this, consider not worrying too much about getting great MSEP pics. People with a lot of experience and $15000 of camera gear have trouble it.
 

Brutphoto

New Member
I have a 10-20mm that does great.

1174029119_VL5zz-L.jpg


1318-L.jpg
 

CP_alum08

Well-Known Member
I second what has already been said, unfortunately there is no one lens that does what you want. I have a Tamron 17-35 f/2.8 that has done relatively well with night parades, but 17mm is not very 'wide' and 35mm isn't very 'zoomed'.

Maybe the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 would be a good choice. Since you said you have the kit lens and a zoom lens, I assume you have an 18-55 and a 55-200? The 17-50 would be a great replacement for the kit lens in terms of overall quality and night shots, but doesn't solve your wide/zoom problem.

There is also the cheap prime option. I know canon makes the nifty 50 for dirt cheap, but 50mm can be pretty limiting for a parade. I have a Nikon 35mm that has worked well, I assume canon makes something comparable.

I'm still holding out for the 10-200 f/2.8!! Although it would probably be the size of a telescope and weight 30lbs :lol:
 

disneygirl76

Carey Poppins - Nanny and Disney Enthusiest
Original Poster
It sounds you like need a couple of lenses to do what you are looking for. Something like the Canon 18-200mm will give you a very flexible zoom lens, which offers a fairly wide view, and a lot of telephoto capability. ie. the 18mm end of the zoom is fairly wide, and the 200mm is very "zoomed in". However, this lens is not good at letting in a lot of light, and will not do the job for things like the MSEP. For that, you need something more specialized, like an f1.4 lens. I would say though, that photographing MSEP well is one of the harder things to do well with a DSLR at WDW. So unless you are getting serious at this, consider not worrying too much about getting great MSEP pics. People with a lot of experience and $15000 of camera gear have trouble it.

Thanks for the info! That is the zoom lens my DH was thinking of for zoom. MSEP was probably a bad example, I'm just thinking of just getting good shots of the castle and rides and main street - even with out movement of the object, I wiggle and the photos are all blurred. I'm tired of propping up my camera on a trash can or railing while I try and get a shot. I want to capture the night hours at WDW. Do you have a suggestion for that?
 

disneygirl76

Carey Poppins - Nanny and Disney Enthusiest
Original Poster
I have a 10-20mm that does great.

1174029119_VL5zz-L.jpg


1318-L.jpg

What kind of camera are you using? These pics are amazing! Is that a wide angle lens, the 10 - 20 mm. I'm still learning what everything is and what everything means. I'm just not satisfied with the pics i'm taking.
 

disneygirl76

Carey Poppins - Nanny and Disney Enthusiest
Original Poster
I second what has already been said, unfortunately there is no one lens that does what you want. I have a Tamron 17-35 f/2.8 that has done relatively well with night parades, but 17mm is not very 'wide' and 35mm isn't very 'zoomed'.

Maybe the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 would be a good choice. Since you said you have the kit lens and a zoom lens, I assume you have an 18-55 and a 55-200? The 17-50 would be a great replacement for the kit lens in terms of overall quality and night shots, but doesn't solve your wide/zoom problem.

There is also the cheap prime option. I know canon makes the nifty 50 for dirt cheap, but 50mm can be pretty limiting for a parade. I have a Nikon 35mm that has worked well, I assume canon makes something comparable.

I'm still holding out for the 10-200 f/2.8!! Although it would probably be the size of a telescope and weight 30lbs :lol:

Thanks for the info. I think I misspoke at first. I am not looking for a zoom and wide angle. I have been told that a wide angle will help with taking pictures that provide a more accurate natural light and will also help with night time shots. I meant to say that. Not that I need a zoom and wide angle lens.

I just want to take nice, clean shots at night around WDW with the wiggley blur b/c i slightly move and I don't want to lug around a tripod.

thank you! :wave:
 

nngrendel

Well-Known Member
What kind of camera are you using? These pics are amazing! Is that a wide angle lens, the 10 - 20 mm. I'm still learning what everything is and what everything means. I'm just not satisfied with the pics i'm taking.

From his EXIF data on those photos he is using a Canon 7D and the 10-20mm lens. Keep in mind he is also in Manual Exposure mode. Once you learn what settings change what and learn to use Manual mode your shots will improve.

Thanks for the info. I think I misspoke at first. I am not looking for a zoom and wide angle. I have been told that a wide angle will help with taking pictures that provide a more accurate natural light and will also help with night time shots. I meant to say that. Not that I need a zoom and wide angle lens.

I just want to take nice, clean shots at night around WDW with the wiggley blur b/c i slightly move and I don't want to lug around a tripod.

thank you! :wave:

Careful with Ultra Wides and Fish Eyes. With all Wide angle lenses there will be a certain amount of distortion. Sometimes that is a good thing and sometimes it can ruin a shot. The wider the lens the more distortion you will get.

I think the "natural light" you are looking for has to do with how fast the lens is. When we say fast lens we are referring to the Aperture or F-Stop of the lens. The lower the F-stop the more light the lens will let in. With that in mind if the lens lets in more light you can use a higher Shutter speed which will help stop the action in the shot. However the lower the F-stop your depth of field will be narrower. If you are looking to have very sharp landscapes both in background and foreground you need to use larger F-Stop. During the day that's not such a big deal but the night time shot you see of Brutphoto was taken at a 2.5 sec shutter speed and Aperture of f/6.3. No matter how awesome you are at holding your camera steady you are not going to get a crisp shot at that speed. Sometimes you really need to have a tripod for sharp pictures. Either that or find something to set your camera on.

Also not sure what ISO you are setting your camera at but a camera set at Higher ISO's will have a certain amount of Noise. I usually try to use the lowest ISO I can depending on the situation. The Canon 7D that Brutphoto is using cost around $1,500 for the body only. (Estimate) It is also very good an controlling noise at higher ISO settings. He is also a Smug Mug user! :sohappy:
 

RonAnnArbor

Well-Known Member
I think you got some good advise up above already about handheld lenses...

Image Stabilization will help somewhat at night, but you want to get the fastest lens you can (i.e. f1.8 or f1.4)....The wideangle really has nothing to do with it.

Your best choices for that are the prime lenses (35mm is the standard dSLR lens for your size camera) at either 1.8 or 1.4 speed....

Those are called standard "walkaround lenses" but they offer no wide angle, and they offer no zoom.

If you don't want to use a tripod or put your camera on something, then you are better off with a compact camera for your all-purpose hand-held shooting, day or night. There is another thread somewhere in Photography where I posted dozens of photos taken with a compact at night that are pinpoint sharp.
 

I_heart_Tigger

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to say that I purchased the Canon EF50mm/1.8f - super cheap lens - on a whim right before my last trip. (Around $125 Canadian). I used this on all of the dark rides and got better pictures than with my zoom or my wide angles because you can set the f-stop to 1.8 rather than 2.5, 3.5...whatever your other lenses have. I had to manually focus on some rides (Peter Pan, Haunted Mansion) because it was to dark to auto focus but I am pleased with the quality and results.

It may not be the best for parades since you can't zoom in/out but for the price, it's a great addition to be able to get some dark ride shots.





 

CP_alum08

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. I think I misspoke at first. I am not looking for a zoom and wide angle. I have been told that a wide angle will help with taking pictures that provide a more accurate natural light and will also help with night time shots. I meant to say that. Not that I need a zoom and wide angle lens.

I just want to take nice, clean shots at night around WDW with the wiggley blur b/c i slightly move and I don't want to lug around a tripod.

thank you! :wave:

Getting natural looking light is usually just a matter of adjusting the white balance in the camera, it shouldn't have (much) to do with the lens. And getting good handheld night shots is a combination of low f/stop, high iso, and a shutter speed fast enough so that the camera doesn't shake during the exposure. You can slow the shutter if you prop yourself against something to stable yourself or set the camera in something like a trash can.

Your camera/lens set-up seems pretty light; as long as you don't need an 8-foot tall tripod there are some great travel tripods that are lightweight and fold up pretty small. Might be worth looking at.
 

disneygirl76

Carey Poppins - Nanny and Disney Enthusiest
Original Poster
Thanks everyone! This is what I have:

Canon Rebel XSi body
Canon 18 - 55 mm lens (came with body)
Canon 75 - 300 mm lens (added later)

I need to take a class to learn all the the settings but on the preprogrammed automatic settings, I notice the color sometimes is off. I was recommended to get a 55mm ultraviolet cover to help with natural light but I often find the pics end up with a blue like tint.

I love warm photos with natural light. I don't like using my flash. So I know I need to learn the manual settings. That being said, my goal is to be able to walk around the parks, capturing natural crisp photos, during the day and night. I understand that I will have to learn the f stop settings so that I can get a faster shutter so that I can capture more crisp night time pics.

But is there another lens that would be better for walking around then the ones that I already have? (FYI - i usually never use the zoom lens)

And in an attempt to learn this camera - is there online guides that you recommend or should we take a class?

Thanks!
:wave:
 

nngrendel

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone! This is what I have:

Canon Rebel XSi body
Canon 18 - 55 mm lens (came with body)
Canon 75 - 300 mm lens (added later)

I need to take a class to learn all the the settings but on the preprogrammed automatic settings, I notice the color sometimes is off. I was recommended to get a 55mm ultraviolet cover to help with natural light but I often find the pics end up with a blue like tint.

I love warm photos with natural light. I don't like using my flash. So I know I need to learn the manual settings. That being said, my goal is to be able to walk around the parks, capturing natural crisp photos, during the day and night. I understand that I will have to learn the f stop settings so that I can get a faster shutter so that I can capture more crisp night time pics.

But is there another lens that would be better for walking around then the ones that I already have? (FYI - i usually never use the zoom lens)

And in an attempt to learn this camera - is there online guides that you recommend or should we take a class?

Thanks!
:wave:

Before I purchased my DLSR I think I checked out every digital photography book they had at my local library. Cost me nothing. I say read up and understand what your manual settings do. Know how changing your f-stop from 2.8 to 16 will affect your shots. Know what an ISO will change and how it affect your shot with your camera. Understand shutter speed and how it will affect your shots as well along with ISO and Aperture.

Most important get out there using your camera. The more you use it the more you learn.

One thing I must say. You say you want "crisp" night time shots. I assume your talking landscape. If you have a lens with a low f-stop (1.4, 1.8, 2.8 ....) will only have a small portion of your shot "crisp". The lower the f-stop the narrower your depth of field will be. I find that most of my shots with my kit lens are at its sharpest at around 7 or 10 aperture setting which also gives me a greater depth of field.

here is a shot at f/4 aperture.



here is a shot at f/16 aperture focusing on the same spot.



To get that much depth of field on the f/16 shot I had to slow my shutter way down! I could be wrong but think the shots that you are enjoying looking at have a very large depth of field with slow shutter speed. That is how most are achieving these "crisp" night shots you see.

Does this help with f/stop? F/stop will affect your depth of field and amount of light your lens lets in as well.

Also on ISO. ISO is how sensitive your sensor is to light. Setting your ISO higher (ex. 1600) will result in you being able to use a smaller f/stop for greater depth of field and a faster shutter speed which will help freeze the frame and prevent camera shake. However, Especially on night time shots, you will find a certain amount of noise in your shots.

Here is an example of noise at higher ISO settings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_noise#Low-_and_high-ISO_noise_examples

Side note: My post count just hit 666. Maybe its bad advice??? LOL.
 

disneygirl76

Carey Poppins - Nanny and Disney Enthusiest
Original Poster
I have so much to learn. So basically I should be able to do what I need to do with my day time shots as long as I actually "learn" how to use my camera. :ROFLOL: I so need to take a class.
 

CP_alum08

Well-Known Member
I have so much to learn. So basically I should be able to do what I need to do with my day time shots as long as I actually "learn" how to use my camera. :ROFLOL: I so need to take a class.

Photography really isn't as hard or complicated as people think. It's really just three settings and creative interpretation.

The best way to learn photography I've found is to shoot in Manual mode. It can be terrifying at first, so don't try it when you NEED to get a shot, but at home just playing around. Adjust the f-stop, shutter speed, and ISO until you get a well balanced shot, then start exploring. Just remember that for every adjustment you make something else has to be adjusted to make it exposed the same. For example if you get a nice exposure at f/8, 500 shutter, and 200 ISO but you want a more shallow depth of field and you open up to f/2.8 you are either going to have to slow the shutter or raise the ISO (or a combination of both) to get the same exposure. It's all checks and balances :lol:
 

NowInc

Well-Known Member
Also..it goes without saying that the best teacher you have is experimentation. Take your camera with you..and play around. Try various setting combinations etc...when you come across something that "works"..you'll EASILY remember it. This is also handy to recognize problems in shots (for example if your ISO or shutter speed could have been set better...you'd be able to recognize that problem faster if you recognize it from your playing around)
 

gsrjedi

Well-Known Member
Photography really isn't as hard or complicated as people think. It's really just three settings and creative interpretation.

The best way to learn photography I've found is to shoot in Manual mode. It can be terrifying at first, so don't try it when you NEED to get a shot, but at home just playing around. Adjust the f-stop, shutter speed, and ISO until you get a well balanced shot, then start exploring. Just remember that for every adjustment you make something else has to be adjusted to make it exposed the same. For example if you get a nice exposure at f/8, 500 shutter, and 200 ISO but you want a more shallow depth of field and you open up to f/2.8 you are either going to have to slow the shutter or raise the ISO (or a combination of both) to get the same exposure. It's all checks and balances :lol:

Unless my mind isn't working right now (which sometimes happens) the last part is backwards. If an image is properly exposed at an aperture of f/8 with a shutter speed of 1/500 sec and an ISO of 200; if you open the aperture to f/2.8 you're going to let in more light which will overexpose the image if the other settings don't change. Slowing down the shutter will make it even brighter as will raising the ISO. You'd want to increase the shutter speed and/or lower the ISO to keep the image properly exposed at f/2.8.


To the OP, you should check out a book called "Understanding Exposure" by Brian Petersen, it's the standard go-to book for newbies. There are sites on the internet like Digital Photography School & Cambridge in Color that have free tutorials to explain the information, but I don't think they're as detailed as the actual book is.

Like CP_alum said, exposure is just three things, but they all have a dual purpose in how they affect your photographs. Once you learn these things, it'll be easier for you to understand where your current gear is failing you.



You should also understand some of the markings on the lenses, so you know what you're looking at and looking for when you need a new lens.

You mentioned having the 18-55 and 75-300 Canon lenses. I'm going to guess these are the lenses you have?

EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II
and
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III


going left to right

EF-S/EF - this refers to the mount, not an issue for you having a crop sensor camera, but if a day comes where you find yourself looking to buy a camera body that costs $2500+ then you'll need to be concerned with this. EF-S lenses are made specifically for the crop sensor cameras and won't fit the full frame cameras. EF lenses are made for the full frame cameras and will also fit on the crop sensor bodies. Being the owner of a crop sensor camera, you can use any of the Canon EOS mount lenses. Third party lens manufacturers will have their own designation for the mount type.

18-55mm/75-300mm - this is easy, the focal length. Some lenses just have one number, those are prime lenses and they don't zoom, they are a fixed focal length. You mention the standard lens not zooming enough, an 18-200 lens will give you the same field of view at the wide end (18mm) and let you zoom to 200 on the telephoto end.

f/3.5-5.6//f/4-5.6 - this is the maximum aperture of the lens. These are both variable aperture lenses, which means that at the wide end, the aperture opens up more (the 3.5 number on your 18-55) at the wide end of the lens and gets smaller at the telephoto end (the 5.6 number on your 18-55). Some lenses have just one number here, these are fixed aperture and for zoom lenses that means they can stay at that maximum aperture throughout the entire zoom range. Prime lenses are always a fixed aperture. On Canon lenses, you might see a letter "L" directly following the aperture, this denotes their "L" line of lenses which is their pro line. These are their top of the line lenses and they cost it.

IS - this is image stabilization, every lens maker has their own term for this.

II/III - this is the version of that lens, in this case the 18-55 is the second version, and the 75-300 is the third.

You might also come across the letters "USM", this is Canon's UltraSonic Motor for auto-focus, it's faster and quieter. Again, third party lens makers are going to call this something different.


I know it's a lot of information, but once you have an idea of the various exposure parameters and you start looking to buy some lenses, you'll be able to read a lens name with no problem. I myself am very much an amateur and for me looking at lenses and seeing the way they're named was like looking into the Matrix for me, but once I learned how to decipher the code it made making lens decisions click for me.
 

CP_alum08

Well-Known Member
Unless my mind isn't working right now (which sometimes happens) the last part is backwards. If an image is properly exposed at an aperture of f/8 with a shutter speed of 1/500 sec and an ISO of 200; if you open the aperture to f/2.8 you're going to let in more light which will overexpose the image if the other settings don't change. Slowing down the shutter will make it even brighter as will raising the ISO. You'd want to increase the shutter speed and/or lower the ISO to keep the image properly exposed at f/2.8.

You are absolutely correct. I swear I know what I'm doing :brick:
 

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