Why was EPCOT better in the 80s?

[EPCOT Explorer]

Today's Epcot is a good park. But there are reasons why EPCOT in the 80s was better, more impressive than what it is today, which simply can not be helped. Not all of the reasons why it was better can be attributed to malice, neglect, or cluelessness. Let me name three:


1) Futurism was a social phenomenon.
EPCOT did not come about in a cultural vacuum. Futurism, obsessing about the future, the modernist idea of progress, this is what drove Walt Disney and EPCOT.

But futurism simply does not exist anymore. We live in a post-modern age. We do not look to the future and expect to all be driving flying, nuclear powered vehicles within fifty years anymore. Stuff like that is what dreams were about back then.


2) EPCOT was new.

There is something people born after, say, 1975/1980 must try to understand. One must try to get back in one's mind to the world of 1982, imagine what the world was like back then, what those of us on the wrong side of forty were used to. And then imagine EPCOT suddenly being there.
Let me try to explain by giving some examples:

- EPCOT had the Sperry Computer Review.
This attraction showed the guests...a COMPUTER! Sooo exiting in 1982! A room full of computers! Back then, a huge computer meant a powerful computer. We didn't have computers at home. To see a huge computer was riveting, we were exited when the attraction explained how everything in EPCOT was controlled by it, from the AA's to the lights. To us, this was magic.

- Synthesizers.
Many of the EPCOT songs and the environment music relied heavily on synthesizers. This felt very futuristic. Wow. The EPCOT theme music, the UoE song...wow, just wow. This was music - computerised music, synthesizers! - that was new and futuristic.

- Architecture.
Buildings were square in the early 80s. Postmodern curving lines, computer-aided design were futuristic. Not seen in the world around you. Skyscrapers came in the variants square or square. Not with all those curving lines of today.

Here is what, say, the Universe pavilion looked like to our eyes in 1982:

All the pavilions had these ultra-modern, never-seen-before looks. They were even more exiting to us than the picture above is for todays generation, because we were not used to curving architecture in the first place.

- Lots of little things.
There were no internets. Yet EPCOT had touchscreens! Which were not just a great new technology in their own right, but which to top it off allowed you to make dinner reservations over a computer to a restaurant half a mile away!!
EPCOT was full of wonders like this.


All those aspects were new. Well newish. They existed, but were not taken for granted, we were not accustomed to them.
With this mindset, try to imagine going into Horizons. Oh man. So, so, so beautiful.

I hope none of the above is vague. What I mean is, when we today look at a Beatles concert, it looks lame. At least: tame. But...back in 1965, four men shaking their hips and wearing their hair over their ears was new, provocative, exciting! One can today still admire the Beatles for the inherent quality of their music, but it takes an effort to understand what a Beatles concert must have looked like to an innocent 1965 teenage girl.


3) Thirdly and lastly:
Equally, or perhaps most important was that EPCOT turned all this new stuff into a unified, cohesive whole. All the pavilions related to one another, related to the architecture, to the music, to society at large.
EPCOT had a story, a future, a promise. I would walk in EPCOT and be so full of awe that I wondered whether I was dreaming, whether it was all for real, or just a mirage.

And if they can't do the rest without gutting the entire park, they can at least do THAT.


Beautifully said, Lilly:wave:

 

[jeffb]

Today's Epcot is a good park. But there are reasons why EPCOT in the 80s was better, more impressive than what it is today, which simply can not be helped. Not all of the reasons why it was better can be attributed to malice, neglect, or cluelessness. Let me name three:


1) Futurism was a social phenomenon.
EPCOT did not come about in a cultural vacuum. Futurism, obsessing about the future, the modernist idea of progress, this is what drove Walt Disney and EPCOT.

But futurism simply does not exist anymore. We live in a post-modern age. We do not look to the future and expect to all be driving flying, nuclear powered vehicles within fifty years anymore. Stuff like that is what dreams were about back then.


2) EPCOT was new.

There is something people born after, say, 1975/1980 must try to understand. One must try to get back in one's mind to the world of 1982, imagine what the world was like back then, what those of us on the wrong side of forty were used to. And then imagine EPCOT suddenly being there.
Let me try to explain by giving some examples:

- EPCOT had the Sperry Computer Review.
This attraction showed the guests...a COMPUTER! Sooo exiting in 1982! A room full of computers! Back then, a huge computer meant a powerful computer. We didn't have computers at home. To see a huge computer was riveting, we were exited when the attraction explained how everything in EPCOT was controlled by it, from the AA's to the lights. To us, this was magic.

- Synthesizers.
Many of the EPCOT songs and the environment music relied heavily on synthesizers. This felt very futuristic. Wow. The EPCOT theme music, the UoE song...wow, just wow. This was music - computerised music, synthesizers! - that was new and futuristic.

- Architecture.
Buildings were square in the early 80s. Postmodern curving lines, computer-aided design were futuristic. Not seen in the world around you. Skyscrapers came in the variants square or square. Not with all those curving lines of today.

Here is what, say, the Universe pavilion looked like to our eyes in 1982:

All the pavilions had these ultra-modern, never-seen-before looks. They were even more exiting to us than the picture above is for todays generation, because we were not used to curving architecture in the first place.

- Lots of little things.
There were no internets. Yet EPCOT had touchscreens! Which were not just a great new technology in their own right, but which to top it off allowed you to make dinner reservations over a computer to a restaurant half a mile away!!
EPCOT was full of wonders like this.


All those aspects were new. Well newish. They existed, but were not taken for granted, we were not accustomed to them.
With this mindset, try to imagine going into Horizons. Oh man. So, so, so beautiful.

I hope none of the above is vague. What I mean is, when we today look at a Beatles concert, it looks lame. At least: tame. But...back in 1965, four men shaking their hips and wearing their hair over their ears was new, provocative, exciting! One can today still admire the Beatles for the inherent quality of their music, but it takes an effort to understand what a Beatles concert must have looked like to an innocent 1965 teenage girl.


3) Thirdly and lastly:
Equally, or perhaps most important was that EPCOT turned all this new stuff into a unified, cohesive whole. All the pavilions related to one another, related to the architecture, to the music, to society at large.
EPCOT had a story, a future, a promise. I would walk in EPCOT and be so full of awe that I wondered whether I was dreaming, whether it was all for real, or just a mirage.

Really Fantastic post! - you hit the nail right on the head.

EPCOT Center in the 80s was the most coherent and cohesive vision that Disney has offered up, from the design of the park and its pavilions, the music, Futurism, the belief in the goodness in man, graphic design, etc...

It proabaly was the last large scale vision to feature optimism about the future which peaked during the populuxe era which started to come crashing down when JFK was shot and pretty much ended with the conclusion of the NYC 64/65 Worlds Fair.

 

[MythBuster]

I loved the old Epcot also, but it was about money then also. Every pavilion had a sponsor and shows and entertainment were sponsored. So those companies were footing in the bill in the beginning and paid for the upkeep and also was a good way to advertise their company name and also a good marketing tool. Like Kodak when it became the official film of WDW and that would be the only they would sell. And the VIP lounges and the other company perks.

 

[SMRT-1]

Really Fantastic post! - you hit the nail right on the head.

EPCOT Center in the 80s was the most coherent and cohesive vision that Disney has offered up, from the design of the park and its pavilions, the music, Futurism, the belief in the goodness in man, graphic design, etc...

It proabaly was the last large scale vision to feature optimism about the future which peaked during the populuxe era which started to come crashing down when JFK was shot and pretty much ended with the conclusion of the NYC 64/65 Worlds Fair.

agreed. i believe back then futurism was at a total peak. does anyone remember Xanadu? it was a "home of the future" that was located on 192 which opened around the the same time as EPCOT.
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/set/xanadu.html

what was the future back then, much of it is reality now. however, i believe EPCOT still can do what's coming ahead. they just need to work with more corporate sponsors and engage us with their idea's and prototypes.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

agreed. i believe back then futurism was at a total peak. does anyone remember Xanadu? it was a "home of the future" that was located on 192 which opened around the the same time as EPCOT.
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/set/xanadu.html

what was the future back then, much of it is reality now. however, i believe EPCOT still can do what's coming ahead. they just need to work with more corporate sponsors and engage us with their idea's and prototypes.

So THAT'S what THAT is...:lookaroun:lol:


I've always thought it looked a little creepy. Reminded me of the dwellings from Tatooine in Star Wars.

 

[marni1971]

does anyone remember Xanadu?

Too well. I stayed a few motels away with my parents back in the day...

 

[Sean23]

Two things I remeber is communicore and the second floor of the Imagination Pavillion they had a lot of neat things, I remember these tables where you could put your hand under and push up the pins. I will always miss Horizons but that was still around in the 90's for a while. There was a special with Danny Kaye and Drew Barrymore at the Epcot, think it was the opening.

 

[surfsupdon]

EPCOT Center was better than Epcot b/c the rides were so long!! They were on par with Haunted Mansion and Pirates---great stories, tons of AAs, awesome scenery, and a whole lot of detail.

I never, ever liked Universe of Energy, however.

 

[Sam Eagle 1776]

rockin' haircuts and power ballads.

:roflol::roflol::roflol:

 

[Timmay]

*sigh*

As a college student back in the 80's, and a frequent visitor to WDW, I can tell you flat out I enjoy what we have today much more than then.

Sorry, folks...we all have opinions and none of them are facts, regardless of what the OP would have you believe.

 

[Dj Corona]

Add me on to the growing list of "Great Post Lilly!"

 

[WDWPrincess87]

i was born in 87 so i cant tell ya how it was then lol. but i was there throughout the 90s and into the 2000s and i love epcot! i love how they are evolving with the times and i have to say spaceship earth is definately alot better than it was. its more fun and interactive. and i love the worlds! its like being able to travel the world without actually having to pay 1000s to go there! epcot is great! and i think it will only get better

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Two things I remeber is communicore and the second floor of the Imagination Pavillion they had a lot of neat things, I remember these tables where you could put your hand under and push up the pins. I will always miss Horizons but that was still around in the 90's for a while. There was a special with Danny Kaye and Drew Barrymore at the Epcot, think it was the opening.

And it's all on YouTube. Cool stuff to watch. And re watch. :lol:

*sigh*

As a college student back in the 80's, and a frequent visitor to WDW, I can tell you flat out I enjoy what we have today much more than then.

Sorry, folks...we all have opinions and none of them are facts, regardless of what the OP would have you believe.

The OP asked a question...:lookaroun:lol: We answered with opinions. :lol:


Sorry.:lookaroun

 

[Krack2]

I agree with a lot of what has been suggested already - probably the two most obvious differences are cohesiveness in exterior architecture (all the buildings looked like they belonged in the same "land") and the continuity of the musics, with each pavilion having it's own theme song, etc. I've always felt that the original EPCOT Center Future World music is the best Disney's ever produced for their parks (right there with the music utilized in Pirates and the Haunted Mansion).

Anyways, for me, the most important, yet least obvious difference between EPCOT Center 82 and Epcot 2009 is that when the park opened it was openly, unabashedly educational. It was Disney's Smithsonian in this way. They even had a "teacher's resources" center where school teachers could go and get lesson plans and tools (for free) to take home and use to teach about the various Future World topics (agriculture, energy, communication, etc). My mother was an elementary school teacher at the time and I can remember her spending an hour in there during our first trip to EPCOT Center while they filled up a shopping bag full of teaching materials that were designed for the grade level she taught. This area was located in the Comminicore; I believe it was in the same building as the Centurium.

But I digress, my point is that, back then Disney was not ashamed in the least about saying "Welcome to Future World, we are going to teach you something and we hope you learn a lot". It was pervasive and I loved it (as a 7 year old in 1983). Flash forward, and now nobody runs away from the two words "education" and "learn" faster than Epcot.

Further, by insisting on sponsor money to make refurbs and improvements to the pavilions, they have stagnated the park and when they do make improvements, they behave as though they are at the mercy of the sponsors. Kodak wants to gut JII? Okay. GM wants a roller coaster? Okay. No one wants to pay to refurb Wonders of Life? Okay, close it. Russia won't pay for itself in the World Showcase? No problem, who needs to update World Showcase anyway?

If Disney acted this way with the Magic Kingdom, people would be up in arms. Could you imagine the reaction if they came out and said "We can't get anyone to pay $10 million to make refurbs at Big Thunder Mountain so we're gonna close it down or make it seasonal."? Or how about if they said "No one wants to sponsor the Jungle Cruise, so we're removing it next year."? It would cause a riot. However, with Epcot, it's business as usual.

Circling around to the question posed by the original poster, I don't think EPCOT Center's ever going to return to its original glory unless WDI wrestles control back from the sponsors and management/advertising stops pretending Epcot wasn't built with an educational focus. I honestly believe, that left alone for the last 30 years, the original JII would be beloved just as much as Pirates or the Haunted Mansion are. I further believe that if the omni-movers were left alone, with regular updates to the post-shows, these pavilions would all have the type of loyalty from the fanbase that is enjoyed by IASW or the Jungle Ride or Peter Pan, etc - the type of loyalty that can only be enjoyed when you hook a person as a kid and reinforce that experience over twenty to thirty years so they can't wait to show it to their own kids.

I think if they were really concerned with restoring a lot of the EPCOT Center magic in a method that would be as quick as possible with as much "bang for their buck" they could have a really good start by yanking all the clutter (pinwheels, tarps, tombstones, etc) out of Future World to put the focus back on the individual pavilion architecture, by injecting the original music back into individual attractions where they have disappeared (It's Fun To Be Free, New Horizons), and by having the marketing department stop saying, essentially, that "hey look at all these thrilling Epcot rides you will see if you spend the day at that park"; Epcot doesn't need to be ashamed of what it is, and even today, it amounts to a bait and switch by Disney. The removal of the wand was a great first step.

God, I miss EPCOT Center.

 

[ChrisFL]

(lots of stuff)

Agree with all points.

Back in 1982 wew were looking toward how much technology would affect our lives 10 years from now, now we can barely keep up with what happens 10 MONTHS from now.

We were in the computer age, but only in an Industrial sense, so we could see what the big companies were bringing, the leaders of industry at the time, GE, AT&T, GM, Kraft, etc.

Then we went full speed into the personal computer age, where we are now surrounded by our own technologies, we can't look as easily to the distant future because the immediate future changes so rapidly and we have so much access to that information about the world around us.

In that case, I understood when they decided to replace Communicore with Innoventions because the explanation at the time was all about the more immediate changes to technology, etc.

We all know what's happened to Epcot since then, but I think Disney took the wrong approach to keeping/adding sponsors and allowing other things to intrude instead (ahem, nemo)

Specifically for Innoventions, they missed a big opportunity to bring in (again) the best innovative companies with the best ideas for the future...we have Segway, but where's Google? where's Virgin/Burt Rutan's Spaceship? where's new technologies that could be showcased like Augmented Reality? 3D scanning and printing (stereolithography)?

One thing that has happened in the 27 years since Epcot first opened was the Geek movement, people play with and buy gadgets like crazy.

Shows like CES, E3, and especially TED (which I just started to follow and blows me away) show us what Epcot could have been like if only Disney wanted that kind of publicity, and wanted to host things like this.

I know that Epcot still has occassional special events, like there was some NASA exhibits there a few years ago, and I think they've also done a few school robotics things out in special setups out near the parking area...but IMO they could do a LOT more.

Epcot should be a "mecca" of all things new and cool in tech, they could bring smaller conferences here to host in the World Showplace and (since they're not using it for much else) the WOL pavilion, or even build a big conference area near Epcot that could be advertised with it.

As for the actual World Showcase, it's fine, but add some new pavilions to fill it out more, add some real attractions besides just shops and restaurants and ADVERTISE IT, which Disney hasn't seemed to have done for the longest time unless its for the F&W festival

 

[ChrisFL]

This is odd, I hadn't looked at Eddie Sotto's interview yet, and I just read it, he mentioned some of the same stuff I did :drevil:

 

[brb1006]

Who else remember encountering or seeing a couple of talking robots that would wander around Future World?

 

[rk03221]

Disney ruined Epcot and it's so sad because it was my favorite park. They need to bring back horizons and the original Journey into Imagination, with all the cool futurism and update the WSC. But sadly I think thats a long ways away or never going to happen because Epcot doesnt bring in the money like the other parks do. The only time that its really busy is food and wine. Today epcot is all about drinking because that's what brings in the $$$

 

[Incomudro]

Today's Epcot is a good park. But there are reasons why EPCOT in the 80s was better, more impressive than what it is today, which simply can not be helped. Not all of the reasons why it was better can be attributed to malice, neglect, or cluelessness. Let me name three:


1) Futurism was a social phenomenon.
EPCOT did not come about in a cultural vacuum. Futurism, obsessing about the future, the modernist idea of progress, this is what drove Walt Disney and EPCOT.

But futurism simply does not exist anymore. We live in a post-modern age. We do not look to the future and expect to all be driving flying, nuclear powered vehicles within fifty years anymore. Stuff like that is what dreams were about back then.


2) EPCOT was new.

There is something people born after, say, 1975/1980 must try to understand. One must try to get back in one's mind to the world of 1982, imagine what the world was like back then, what those of us on the wrong side of forty were used to. And then imagine EPCOT suddenly being there.
Let me try to explain by giving some examples:

- EPCOT had the Sperry Computer Review.
This attraction showed the guests...a COMPUTER! Sooo exiting in 1982! A room full of computers! Back then, a huge computer meant a powerful computer. We didn't have computers at home. To see a huge computer was riveting, we were exited when the attraction explained how everything in EPCOT was controlled by it, from the AA's to the lights. To us, this was magic.

- Synthesizers.
Many of the EPCOT songs and the environment music relied heavily on synthesizers. This felt very futuristic. Wow. The EPCOT theme music, the UoE song...wow, just wow. This was music - computerised music, synthesizers! - that was new and futuristic.

- Architecture.
Buildings were square in the early 80s. Postmodern curving lines, computer-aided design were futuristic. Not seen in the world around you. Skyscrapers came in the variants square or square. Not with all those curving lines of today.

Here is what, say, the Universe pavilion looked like to our eyes in 1982:

All the pavilions had these ultra-modern, never-seen-before looks. They were even more exiting to us than the picture above is for todays generation, because we were not used to curving architecture in the first place.

- Lots of little things.
There were no internets. Yet EPCOT had touchscreens! Which were not just a great new technology in their own right, but which to top it off allowed you to make dinner reservations over a computer to a restaurant half a mile away!!
EPCOT was full of wonders like this.


All those aspects were new. Well newish. They existed, but were not taken for granted, we were not accustomed to them.
With this mindset, try to imagine going into Horizons. Oh man. So, so, so beautiful.

I hope none of the above is vague. What I mean is, when we today look at a Beatles concert, it looks lame. At least: tame. But...back in 1965, four men shaking their hips and wearing their hair over their ears was new, provocative, exciting! One can today still admire the Beatles for the inherent quality of their music, but it takes an effort to understand what a Beatles concert must have looked like to an innocent 1965 teenage girl.


3) Thirdly and lastly:
Equally, or perhaps most important was that EPCOT turned all this new stuff into a unified, cohesive whole. All the pavilions related to one another, related to the architecture, to the music, to society at large.
EPCOT had a story, a future, a promise. I would walk in EPCOT and be so full of awe that I wondered whether I was dreaming, whether it was all for real, or just a mirage.

Great Post.
This is what I try to say about the Epcot of the past, but I never do as good a job as you did.
Futurism gets dated. Today, it works better in a retro sense - as in Tomorrowland.
Our cel phones have technology that we are already jaded by and take for granted.

 

[disneyKaiju]

My first trip to EPCOT (& WDW) was 3 years ago and I had dreamt of going since I first saw it when I was a kid. Being born in the 80s, it was a long wait and I am sad that I wasn't able to see the original EPCOT because it sounds really amazing! I think my mind would have exploded. Well I'm glad I came across this thread because I thoroughly enjoyed reading the insight and everyones experiences. I hope Disney finds a way to bring back the EPCOT discussed in this thread somehow, fingers crossed! Until then I am going to go search for youtube videos of EPCOT in the 80s!