Why no ElecTRONica for DHS or PI?

[WDWFigment]

When I went to Disneyland, much of the "discerning local crowd" consisted of teenagers being dropped off at the park by their parents, leaving garbage everywhere and looking for a place to hook-up. Disneyland on a Saturday night is VERY different from Disney World on a Saturday night with DL having a clientele similar to that of a Six Flags. On the other hand, Disney World tends to attract reasonably-wealthy vacationers from around the USA and abroad. I would hazard a guess that, on average, the IQ of the average WDW visitor is actually greater than that of the average DL visitor. At the end of the day, the real difference probably doesn't have much to do with how "discerning" or intelligent the guests are, but rather the fact that Disneyland mostly attracts locals on day trips, so they need to constantly spruce things up to keep them returning, while WDW attracts people who come for a week every few years (on average). The management of each resort responds appropriately.

We weren't there for any weekend nights, although I did "interact" with some of the type of guests you mention. The large demographic I saw was folks with tatts of 'fallen homies' and other suspect things. I know everyone is 'tatted up' in that area, and that tattoos are not indicative of intelligence, but the type of tattoos I saw, in my opinion, reasonably intelligent and/or discerning individuals would not have. Suffice to say, the predominant demographic in the park was not the 'money' crowd. We did see some folks who clearly had money, but they were a small minority.

I would probably tend to agree with your assessment of guest IQ.

 

[JimboJones123]

For all those knocking the present/future DCA, have you actually been there recently? I was not all that impressed with images I had seen of it, and had incredibly low expectations. When I actually experienced it, everything about the park exceeded my expectations (except World of Color). There's quite a difference between seeing images of something and seeing it in person, with dimensionality. I'm not saying that anyone is unqualified to wax poetic on the merits of one theme park they've never been to versus another they've never been to, but...wait, actually, I am saying that. Would you compare two foods you've never tried based solely on images? This is somewhat, although not wholly, comparable. Experiencing a theme park is a complete sensory experience that you simply don't get by looking at photos or watching videos.

Oh, and TP2000, I know everyone talks up Disneyland locals as being this discerning group with high expectations. Intuition tells me this must be the case because so much (changes, upkeep, etc.) happens at DLR that must be necessitated by guest demands (and possibly TDA's higher concern for quality as compared to TDO), but when I was there, I just didn't see much of this demographic. I know I just discussed not 'judging a book by its cover' so I might be contradicting myself a bit here, but many of the guests simply did not give the impression that they'd be the discerning, quality obsessed types--at least proportionality-wise. Maybe the vocal minority just has more leverage there?

I never really noticed a $$$ distinction in the guests, or IQ distinction. I just generally have noticed LOTS of people "hanging out".

Although lines are reasonable, the park can be PACKED with lingering folks that aren't interested in the attractions, just being there.

We went with 2 groups of AP holders on our trip and experienced things that neither had ever done. They don't seem to appreciate the charm of the place or soaking up the experience, it is just a good time waster for them.

 

[EpcotServo]

Having been the first (and probably only) one on this thread who has been on the grid when ElecTRONica started, I can say it is one of the BEST things ANY Disney park has offered after the sun has gone down. Combine an electrifying night with some of the best music any park has ever played, arcade games, a preview of one of the most promising upcoming films of the year, lighting and effects that have never been seen before, AND a 30 minute Water Opera over at World of Color? THAT'S nightime entertainment my friend.

There is no one who can deny that there's only ONE valid reason to not perform ElecTRONica here that isn't just a flimsy excuse: And that's that WDW is not cool enough for it.

:lol:

*Puts on my Glow-in-the-Dark ElecTRONica shirt and holds Arcade Tokens*

...And be sure to look for 7 giant California Updates in the Disneyland section, where you'll see things you've never seen before in "EpcotServo's CALIFORNIA Updates: The Return- We Can (Not) Have Nice Things"! Coming soon!

 

[JimboJones123]

Having been the first (and probably only) one on this thread who has been on the grid when ElecTRONica started, I can say it is one of the BEST things ANY Disney park has offered after the sun has gone down. Combine an electrifying night with some of the best music any park has ever played, arcade games, a preview of one of the most promising upcoming films of the year, lighting and effects that have never been seen before, AND a 30 minute Water Opera over at World of Color? THAT'S nightime entertainment my friend.

There is no one who can deny that there's only ONE valid reason to not perform ElecTRONica here that isn't just a flimsy excuse: And that's that WDW is not cool enough for it.

:lol:

*Puts on my Glow-in-the-Dark ElecTRONica shirt and holds Arcade Tokens*

...And be sure to look for 7 giant California Updates in the Disneyland section, where you'll see things you've never seen before in "EpcotServo's CALIFORNIA Updates: The Return- We Can (Not) Have Nice Things"! Coming soon!

Cannot wait for the updates. Christmas 2012 cannot come soon enough.

 

[_Scar]

Scar, the image for Tokyo's TSM seems to be of the same design that you are hating on for GlowFest.

I would really HATE to see TSM DCA look cartoonish like that. It would totally ruin the theme and make it look like Dinoland -- which is universally hated.

Why would DCA need a raised rail system in the park? It may be the absolute flattest Disney park there is.

The Ariel area in the picture at TDS is an ENTIRE LAND! The theme is that you are going under the sea as you enter, not as part of the ride. It would make no themeing sense to go under the sea to enter the building, mystically go ashore to load your clam, then go back under again. They are making great use of the Whoopie movie theater. It wasn't a bad looking building, and sure as heck not worth dumping an additional 5 million into to fancy up much more than they already are.

By the way, you see those Mountains yet? They are looking mighty themed, and in a more appropriate way than to just spruce up a show building. It isn't like it will look like Epcot's Sorin.

TDS' TSM looks amazing!! I can't believe you think it cmpares to the temporary Glow Fest I guess that's your opinion, but I must ask "Really?!"

And for your next cartoon statement about TSM in Tokyo.... "REALLY"?!

Cartoony? I'm no expert, but the style is Victorian at Tokyo too.

I can't imagine TDS is not remotely flat too. Heck, Florida is SO flat- why would it need a monorail? :lol: It works.

And I MUST clarify that I'm not recommending these in place of what DCA is getting- I'm just comparing similar experiences found at both parks.

And It may be a "whole land", but it's still a large-r show building. Not much of a big difference.

Got it. But when you do visit Disneyland for the first time (and I hope you'll let us know in the Disneyland forum so we can bombard you with advice and tips!), I think you're going to be amazed at the difference in quality between stuff that opened with DCA in '01 versus what has replaced it. By 2012 very little of the cheap stuff from DCA 2001 will remain however, so the clock is ticking.

This type of stuff that opens in 2012 and is under construction now oozes quality and depth and detail. And from my own personal experience, looks very DisneySea-ish in its quality and good taste.

West Side DCA Entrance Complex Circa 2012

Compared to what it is replacing, it's like night and day!

West Side DCA Entrance Complex Circa 2001-2010

Which gets us back OT, because it will be interesting to see what becomes of these wildly popular seasonal street parties DCA discovered in 2010 once the entrance area is completely redone and rethemed. Will there be room for this sort of stuff? Will they want to shoehorn something like this into the area in front of Carthay Circle Theater? Will DCA want or need this type of nighttime entertainment once Cars Land opens?

Glow Fest and elecTRONica could become short bookmarks in the history book once the DCA construction projects are over in 2012. We may not see them ever again after New Years. Although, it wouldn't surprise me to see them continue. But the new entrance theme and setup will constrict some of the ideas they've worked with recently at Glow Fest and elecTRONica.

Unfortuneately, my trip to Disneyland is on indefinite hold. Maybe I'll go if it's a surprise, but for the time being pictures and video are all I have to go by.


Maybe it will work out though because I really can't wait to check out the new DCA and I must admit I've never seen that concept art before for the trolley.

 

[imagineer boy]

AK-- ugh. What an amazing pit of a wasteland. I am tired of apologists saying how great the theming is. IT IS NOT! Let's make Africa look like a depressing village FOR NO REASON! Wait, let's theme Asia now. Leave a bunch of crap found in the dump on the side of Imagineered cracks on a broken down walkway that looks exactly like the crappy road job that Lightning McQueen hastily put down in Cars and you have your Disney Magic Theming. It could look really nice, but they made it look dumpy, broken down, and depressing on purpose. So cleaver. Plus, the park's attractions pretty much suck. Lame retheme of Indy. A coaster who's themeing doesn't even work, much less even come CLOSE to The Mummy down the street. The lamest -- and shortest water raft ride ever. It is worth going, if nothing more than the two shows and Safari, but I would gladly be out by 2-2:30 every trip and never return.

Wow, I completely disagree (at least about the themeing, I agree Kali is way too short). I think the gritty African and Aisan villages are some of the most beautiful themeing Disney has ever done. I don't find anything depressing about it, for me it creates a realistic and adventurous enviroment. And I hate to break it to you, but most rual African and Asian villages are very much like that in reality.

 

[JimboJones123]

Wow, I completely disagree (at least about the themeing, I agree Kali is way too short). I think the gritty African and Aisan villages are some of the most beautiful themeing Disney has ever done. I don't find anything depressing about it, for me it creates a realistic and adventurous enviroment. And I hate to break it to you, but most rual African and Asian villages are very much like that in reality.

I completely understand that many disagree with this POV. But many also agree. Maybe overproducing crap isn't the best way to go in some people's eyes. These aren't new ideas. The overdesigning rundown stuff is a great dividing point for those who like or dislike the park. Just because my opinions aren't yours don't make them invalid.

I am thrilled that so many people go googoogaagaa over the park. A 15% swing in those who don't like the park design and it is a failure of a park.

 

[TP2000]

We weren't there for any weekend nights, although I did "interact" with some of the type of guests you mention. The large demographic I saw was folks with tatts of 'fallen homies' and other suspect things. I know everyone is 'tatted up' in that area, and that tattoos are not indicative of intelligence, but the type of tattoos I saw, in my opinion, reasonably intelligent and/or discerning individuals would not have. Suffice to say, the predominant demographic in the park was not the 'money' crowd. We did see some folks who clearly had money, but they were a small minority.

I would probably tend to agree with your assessment of guest IQ.

The whole stereotype of people at Disneyland being ultra-picky superfans obsessing over every burnt out light bulb on Main Street is a silly one. That type of fan, via their website, is a tiny minority. But they get a lot of attention from TDA.

SoCal is one of the most populated metro areas on the planet, with 20 Million people living within a 2 hour freeway drive of Disneyland. There are a lot of Hispanic folks living in SoCal, and their culture loves tattoos. I'm as white and WASPy as they come and I don't understand a lot of it myself, but if seeing non-whites with tatoos is not your thing, then SoCal is not for you. And thus, a trip to Disneyland is not going to be your thing either, since Disneyland sits right smack in the middle of 20 Million Southern Californians who like taking the kids to Disneyland on Saturday. (Walt's decision to pick Anaheim as a future population center was incredibly accurate!)

That said, you might be surprised at who has money in OC and who doesn't. The beach towns are full of mega-million dollar homes where the 45 year old Dad has tattoos and is trying desperately to look like B List Celebrity "Jesse James", while Mom borrows her daughters t-shirts and tries to look like her older sister instead of her Mom.

Huntington Beach Celebrity Couple Jesse James n' Sandra Bullock in Happier Times

That look isn't going to impress upper-middle class folks in Indianapolis, but it's the hip look to achieve in Orange County and many other affluent SoCal suburban areas.

 

[TP2000]

Unfortuneately, my trip to Disneyland is on indefinite hold. Maybe I'll go if it's a surprise, but for the time being pictures and video are all I have to go by.


Maybe it will work out though because I really can't wait to check out the new DCA and I must admit I've never seen that concept art before for the trolley.

Okay, but keep us posted. You'll get here eventually, I'm sure of it. And trust me, you'll love seeing it all in person. You'll find stuff you thought was going to be horrible and you'll realize it actually works well, and then there will be stuff you never knew about that may not work well at all and you'll say "this is dumb!". :lol:

Here's the latest model of a Red Car Trolley currently on display in the Blue Sky Cellar. They are pouring a ton of money into this little ride and fleet of trolleys to make it very authentic and really give kinetics and energy to the brand new 1920's themed entrance area.

They are consciously trying to avoid this... :lookaroun

 

[TP2000]

Having been the first (and probably only) one on this thread who has been on the grid when ElecTRONica started, I can say it is one of the BEST things ANY Disney park has offered after the sun has gone down...

There is no one who can deny that there's only ONE valid reason to not perform ElecTRONica here that isn't just a flimsy excuse: And that's that WDW is not cool enough for it.

Bold statement, but I'll take it. :lookaroun

However, with all this talk of demographics, some valid points have been raised about tourist families from average suburbs visiting WDW and not expecting a major party scene.

Check out the first 10 seconds of this elecTRONica video from Friday night, and realize that the entrance to an operating Monsters Inc. dark ride is in that big giant open door in the background. Now consider guiding a couple of little kids and your wife through this packed dance floor to get on the ride. While local SoCal'ers may consider it all a great deal of fun, I can easily imagine this scene would scare some tourists from Anytown, USA.

Check out the first 10 seconds of this YouTube clip, and think about getting to that big open door in the background to get on the Monsters Inc. ride... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88_Tyc9mTa4

 

[_Scar]

Do you really think people will move out of the way for the trolley? I bet someone will be stupid and get hurt and knock it out of comission just like the Toontown Trolley.

My hope in humanity is not high ;D

 

[TP2000]

Do you really think people will move out of the way for the trolley? I bet someone will be stupid and get hurt and knock it out of comission just like the Toontown Trolley.

My hope in humanity is not high ;D

The Toontown Trolley was put out of commission over California regulations regarding its batteries and charging stations that would have caused a huge amount of money to fix and replace. The trolley now just sits there as a photo op.

The horse drawn streetcars continue to operate on Main Street USA to this day. The Omnibus and fire truck and horseless carriages also drive that same route, dodging horse drawn streetcars, filled with dazed tourists. It works.

The Red Car Trolley will have a bell and won't have to share the road with buses and cars like at Disneyland. It will work.

But what the Red Car Trolley will likely hinder is the ability to put on these elaborate street parties at DCA like Glow Fest and elecTRONica. Word is the upcoming DCA parade has to be custom built to fit under the overhead trolley wires, a problem they never had to worry about before.

 

[tecowdw]

Because PI is a dead horse at WDW!
:drevil:

 

[askmike1]

Because PI is a dead horse at WDW!
:drevil:

But if we keep beating it, won't it come back? :animwink:

 

[tecowdw]

but if we keep beating it, won't it come back? :animwink:

 

[WDWFigment]

The whole stereotype of people at Disneyland being ultra-picky superfans obsessing over every burnt out light bulb on Main Street is a silly one. That type of fan, via their website, is a tiny minority. But they get a lot of attention from TDA.

SoCal is one of the most populated metro areas on the planet, with 20 Million people living within a 2 hour freeway drive of Disneyland. There are a lot of Hispanic folks living in SoCal, and their culture loves tattoos. I'm as white and WASPy as they come and I don't understand a lot of it myself, but if seeing non-whites with tatoos is not your thing, then SoCal is not for you. And thus, a trip to Disneyland is not going to be your thing either, since Disneyland sits right smack in the middle of 20 Million Southern Californians who like taking the kids to Disneyland on Saturday. (Walt's decision to pick Anaheim as a future population center was incredibly accurate!)

That said, you might be surprised at who has money in OC and who doesn't. The beach towns are full of mega-million dollar homes where the 45 year old Dad has tattoos and is trying desperately to look like B List Celebrity "Jesse James", while Mom borrows her daughters t-shirts and tries to look like her older sister instead of her Mom.

Huntington Beach Celebrity Couple Jesse James n' Sandra Bullock in Happier Times

That look isn't going to impress upper-middle class folks in Indianapolis, but it's the hip look to achieve in Orange County and many other affluent SoCal suburban areas.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Disneyland, I only point out the demographics I noticed to refute the notion I've heard (not necessarily from you) that Disneyland visitors are more discerning than Walt Disney World guests, and that is the impetus behind the supposedly impeccable upkeep, constant 'plussing', and makeover of California Adventure. While there's no denying that California Adventure didn't have great numbers, I question whether it's because the majority of guests are so 'discerning'.

As for the general mentality of SoCal, I get that; besides visiting DLR, we also spent some time out at the Shorebreak Hotel with some friends from the area. I may live in Indianapolis, but I'm not some corn-fed bumpkin. I can distinguish reasonably well someone affluent who happens to dress a to the culture and someone dressed similarly who isn't. They may look similar, but they're hardly wearing the same things.

Anyway, my point with that (besides getting defensive as I hate being thought of as 'from Indiana' (I'm not, for the record)) is to reinforce my opinion that I don't think the difference in guests is the big reason that Disneyland gets more attention. Proximity to TDA, like you say, probably weighs much more heavily. It's amazing what a difference in end-product can be made when you have people in their jobs who simply 'care' a little more.

 

[JimboJones123]

I think that most SoCal guests are very casual guest. Even the APs. They don't know who Mary Blair is. They have no idea what WEDway is. They could give a flying flip about what Walt would want. They are just looking for a safe clean distraction.

Yes, there are the extreme guests, of every flavor that has been mentioned here. But to group them together is folly.

Back on the OT, it just does not seem worth the effort in WDW. The percentage of guests that will visit due to the show running would probably equal less than 1%. Meanwhile, hundreds of guests from SoCal may show up for the DCA version on a daily basis.

Again, it is all about money. If DHS lights, MK parties, Food and Wine fest, Candlelight dinner packages, Hotel bars, DTD dining and many other evening offering that bring in $$$ are losing attendence, it isn't worth it.

It wouldn't be drawing new blood, just converting $$$ from other efforts. Same reason Fantasmic has been cut back. Why do 10 shows a week when you can do 3 and send more people around site to have sit down dinners?

 

[wm49rs]

Okay, but keep us posted. You'll get here eventually, I'm sure of it. And trust me, you'll love seeing it all in person. You'll find stuff you thought was going to be horrible and you'll realize it actually works well, and then there will be stuff you never knew about that may not work well at all and you'll say "this is dumb!". :lol:

Here's the latest model of a Red Car Trolley currently on display in the Blue Sky Cellar. They are pouring a ton of money into this little ride and fleet of trolleys to make it very authentic and really give kinetics and energy to the brand new 1920's themed entrance area.

They are consciously trying to avoid this... :lookaroun

I am very much looking forward tro my first trip at DL after the Red Car Trolleys (along with everything else) work is complete. I think they add a distinct touch of nostalgia that would look nice in DHS as well....

 

[TP2000]

I am very much looking forward tro my first trip at DL after the Red Car Trolleys (along with everything else) work is complete. I think they add a distinct touch of nostalgia that would look nice in DHS as well....

I agree, and it's that type of thing that was missing from DCA in its original 2001 format. It's new 2012 version will be far more, dare I say it, magical.

And you just have to believe that some folks in WDI are eyeing DHS and Sunset Blvd. for a similar version of a working Red Car Trolley transportation system. It would be a great add to DHS, and would be dramatically less cheesy than that souvenir cart they've got now.

 

[SeaCastle]

I agree, and it's that type of thing that was missing from DCA in its original 2001 format. It's new 2012 version will be far more, dare I say it, magical.

And you just have to believe that some folks in WDI are eyeing DHS and Sunset Blvd. for a similar version of a working Red Car Trolley transportation system. It would be a great add to DHS, and would be dramatically less cheesy than that souvenir cart they've got now.

It was supposed to head to the Studios in '94 but either got cut or never left the Blue Sky stage. Martin mentioned something about the track not having enough room for a turnaround point, but I guess if they ran the trolley in shuttle mode they wouldn't have a problem. On DisneyShawn's blog, he did a great job of pointing out the references to the trolley (billboards, signals, etc.) but unforunately it seems all we'remissing is the trolley itself.