Why limit yourself to "what once was"?

[speck76]

I have been seeing this a lot lately, and it kind of bugs me.....not that it really matters, because it is not like we have any pull on what happens in the parks anyway.

I keep seeing posts about people wanting 20K replaced with "an updated 20K", or "an updated Mr Toad".....is this the limit to our imagination.....an updated version of an old concept?

Yes, technology has come a long way from when those rides were built, but should that technology just be used to tell the same old story that has been told before, or to tell a new story that has yet to be told?

Mr Toad...I liked it, it was fun, probably the best of the dark rides in FL pre-Pooh (It is my opinion that Pooh is better in just about every way), but with all of the movies that WDC has produced, I can think of at least 10 that could/would make better rides than the story of Mr Toad.

20K....I never went on it....I would have liked to, but, I missed out. Still, I don't think WDC should (or is going to) limit themselves to retelling that story.....even at that, I never quite understood how 20K fits with the rest of FL.....sure....it may be "fantasy".....but it just did not fit the "castle-type" theme of the rest of the land.

Lastly....JII....yeah, I like Figment, and no, I am not fond of the new ride, but if the orginal replacement was actually "good", would the Figment mess ever have come to be?

I guess my ranting is done......

 

[DisneyJill]

Thank you!!!! I've said it before...Things are gone for a reason. They aren't going to "bring back" an attraction that they purposely took out. Time to move on to bigger and better things (hopefully not meet and greets!!).

 

[BrerPenguin2]

These are all good points. I would love to see 2 new dark rides addded where 20K once was, but I would be even happier to see Toad return in some form as one of those. It is a nostalgia thing, I guess. My daughter is 6 weeks old, and I can't wait to bring her on her first trip to WDW. I just really wish she was able to visit one of my favorite rides from my youth. I can remember my parents talking up Mr Toad before my fist visit years ago, and not being the least bit disappointed. It was a way for kids to have their own thrill ride (plus it was fun to pretend to steer the car). Anyway, I'm sure most of us here don't really expect Disney to give us back Toad, or 20K, or Dreamfinder and Figment. It's just fun to dream.

 

[speck76]

These are all good points. I would love to see 2 new dark rides addded where 20K once was, but I would be even happier to see Toad return in some form as one of those. It is a nostalgia thing, I guess. My daughter is 6 weeks old, and I can't wait to bring her on her first trip to WDW. I just really wish she was able to visit one of my favorite rides from my youth. I can remember my parents talking up Mr Toad before my fist visit years ago, and not being the least bit disappointed. It was a way for kids to have their own thrill ride (plus it was fun to pretend to steer the car). Anyway, I'm sure most of us here don't really expect Disney to give us back Toad, or 20K, or Dreamfinder and Figment. It's just fun to dream.

But (and not saying you are trying to do this) why "push" Mr Toad on her.....why not let her have her own attraction that is near and dear to her as Mr Toad was to you?

 

[BrerPenguin2]

But (and not saying you are trying to do this) why "push" Mr Toad on her.....why not let her have her own attraction that is near and dear to her as Mr Toad was to you?

Hey, I'm glad that there are a number of things that we can BOTH enjoy for the first time. One of the appeals (at least to me) of WDW is the mix of the new and the familiar. There's every chance that my little girl would have HATED Mr. Toad. It just would have been nice to have let her make the choice (not to "push" it on her).

I'm not taking offense, just trying to explain where some of these feelings are coming from. Is a new Mr Toad the best thing for WDW? Probably not. Would I like it, most definitely. I would love to see an updated Mr Toad side by side with a Beauty and the Beast or Little Mermaid or some other dark ride in the Classic style. There is a place for the old and new to coincide.

 

[speck76]

I think one of the dangers of replacing rides with an upgraded version is that "fans" of the old ride may be vocal about not enjoying the new ride....no matter how good it is. We see it now with SGE, and also with JII. If they built a new 20K or Mr Toad, and used great technology, and made it cutting edge, there is a percentage of people that would not like it "just because".

 

[BrerPenguin2]

I think one of the dangers of replacing rides with an upgraded version is that "fans" of the old ride may be vocal about not enjoying the new ride....no matter how good it is. We see it now with SGE, and also with JII. If they built a new 20K or Mr Toad, and used great technology, and made it cutting edge, there is a percentage of people that would not like it "just because".

And to be honest with you, I would probably fall into that category.

Fact of the matter is, all this talk of "rebuilding" lost rides is just another way for us nostalgic fans to remember them. It wouldn't make sense for Disney to do it, otherwise they never would have removed the ride in the first place. I'm looking forward to the new attraction(s) that go there. Just so long as it's not a meet-and-greet. :lol:

 

[General Grizz]

Toad may never see another day at Walt Disney World, but Figment was an original character that just *couldn't* leave Epcot. The ride is suffering because it doesn't capture the traditional Disney qualities of a great ride, and a lot of that has to do with "heart" - why bringing back the Dreamfinder and the ride couldn't hurt the pavilion should there be no better ideas.

What is the *harm* in bringing Dreamfinder back? (Oh wait. Disney having to pay a talented Cast Member to bring alive a magical character. Whoops.)

And this is where I see a lot of people wanting "old rides to come back." "Why want an old ride when you can have something *better?*" That's a *wonderful* argument. I believe the demand for old rides arises because guests just aren't satisfied with the new rides. Meaning they think a revamped 20K would be better than a Pooh meet and greet (because they don't think Disney will make a better idea). Or they'd want a Kitchen Kabaret or Journey into Imagination back because animatronics aren't used in storytelling anymore and, subconsciously, feel Disney wouldn't make better ideas because they've abandoned these means of storytelling, replacing them with simulators, screens, what have you.

 

[Woody13]

Speck, I disagree. Mr. Toad needs to come back in a more contemporary version. "Mr. Toad, Grand Theft Auto!" which would involve selling drugs, killing cops and soliciting prostitutes. Yea, that's the ticket!

Disney is trying to improve. Just the other day I heard that the skippers on the Jungle Cruise have gotten back their guns. They still can't shoot at the hippos, but the gangsters and cowboys in The Great Movie Ride can shoot at fellow humans! So, things are slowly getting better.

 

[TTATraveler]

While 20k is nostalgic to some, I remember it being very boring. The loading system was horrible and I don't think it would suffice today. How do you update 20k? Do you add a Little Mermaid theme or a Finding Nemo theme? If you are still going to keep the "sub" concept, then be prepared for a slow loading process and a ride that isn't anything to write home about. So in essence, I would much rather see something else in place of 20k, however a character meet in greet isn't it. I think what has angered mose people wasn't the closing of 20k itself, but the large amount of land sitting vacant for so long. That is a waste of space. I would like to see a new dark ride or two in that place or even an E ticket attraction.

What angered me about JII was that it closed suddenly and was replaced with a ride that featured more areas of darkness and black curtains than anything original. They tried to make the ride sterile, by removing Figment and The Dreamfinder. The end result was a very dissapointing ride that looked cheap and certainly not up to par with its original ride. The newest version is better than the second version, but still lacks that creativity feeling. It is basically a Figment update to the 2nd version. So as far as I'm concerned the attraction has gone down hill instead of improving.

Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks, similar concept, similar imagineering, I just prefer KK better.

SGE, I haven't seen it yet, but people I have spoken to people who have seen it, and they were disappointed. I will say that I wasn't much of a fan of AE. I would have liked to have seen a complete overhaul of this attraction.

 

[dxwwf3]

I think one of the dangers of replacing rides with an upgraded version is that "fans" of the old ride may be vocal about not enjoying the new ride....no matter how good it is. We see it now with SGE, and also with JII. If they built a new 20K or Mr Toad, and used great technology, and made it cutting edge, there is a percentage of people that would not like it "just because".

I agree with you there except for one thing. I think that if they built a new 20K or Mr. Toad and they used great technology and made it cutting edge, then I think just about everyone would accept it with open arms. Mainly because it would be a technical improvement. I think the problem with AE and original JII fans is that we/they feel like the new attractions are "downgrades". With SGE, I feel like it was a dumbed down story with inferior characters and with JIIWF I would feel like it is a much shorter ride with less elaborate sets.

But let me say that if they had decided to replace Alien Encounter with a newer version featuring the same characters (XS-Tech, S.I.R., Skippy, etc..) but it had a bit of a different storyline and improved effects, I would not be against it. Sure I would still miss the original, but you would still have what you liked best about the original (the characters and the great storytelling).

I hope I made all of that clear. I know what you mean with this thread. I am usually not that vocal about the changes. I may be against them, but I usually can live with them and I look forward to the new replacement. SGE is just the exception to the rule for myself :wave:

 

[Lee]

I just really wish she was able to visit one of my favorite rides from my youth. I can remember my parents talking up Mr Toad before my fist visit years ago, and not being the least bit disappointed.

Easy...take her to Disneyland. Toad is alive (and in a better home) out there.

 

[Figments Friend]

Man, i SOOO need to go to DisneyLand!!

Hooray for TOAD!!!!

 

[MKCP 1985]

Just the other day I heard that the skippers on the Jungle Cruise have gotten back their guns. They still can't shoot at the hippos, but the gangsters and cowboys in The Great Movie Ride can shoot at fellow humans!

Shhh, Woody. Don't wake up the PC Police! :animwink:

Speck, I'm selfishly not going to give up my fond memories of Mr. Toad. Objectively, I know the ride could have been done much better with 3D AAs in place of 2D cutouts, but the attraction was one of a kind, and the WDW version was more in depth and expanded than the original Disneyland counterpart, which is still around. Two tracks offered similar yet different experiences. So they dismantled the more elaborate version! Waah!

That said, I'm not against progress. What I am seeing (is it just me?) is the Magic Kingdom is going in a direction where its replacement attractions are toned down so as to not have ANY attractions that could potentially frighten elementary school children. Alien Encounter gives way to Stitch's Great Escape, Toad closes for Pooh, 20K for Ariel's Grotto. The gun is removed from the Jungle Cruise, only to later be replaced, but not fired at the Hippo, and the Pirates of the Caribbean no longer chase women, but instead chase treasure or food. All of this is fine, for as far as it goes. Visiting the Magic Kingdom with a six year old is a great experience. But if I don't have a six year old with me, I'm going to be more and more likely to only visit Disney-MGM or EPCOT, and that's too bad, because I really liked the edgy Toad and the baaaad Alien Encounter as alternatives. The more I think about the direction things are going, the less I want to see any refurbishment of the Haunted Mansion. Who knows what would be left of it by the time it returned!

 

[TTATraveler]

Shhh, Woody. Don't wake up the PC Police! :animwink:

Speck, I'm selfishly not going to give up my fond memories of Mr. Toad. Objectively, I know the ride could have been done much better with 3D AAs in place of 2D cutouts, but the attraction was one of a kind, and the WDW version was more in depth and expanded than the original Disneyland counterpart, which is still around. Two tracks offered similar yet different experiences. So they dismantled the more elaborate version! Waah!

That said, I'm not against progress. What I am seeing (is it just me?) is the Magic Kingdom is going in a direction where its replacement attractions are toned down so as to not have ANY attractions that could potentially frighten elementary school children. Alien Encounter gives way to Stitch's Great Escape, Toad closes for Pooh, 20K for Ariel's Grotto. The gun is removed from the Jungle Cruise, only to later be replaced, but not fired at the Hippo, and the Pirates of the Caribbean no longer chase women, but instead chase treasure or food. All of this is fine, for as far as it goes. Visiting the Magic Kingdom with a six year old is a great experience. But if I don't have a six year old with me, I'm going to be more and more likely to only visit Disney-MGM or EPCOT, and that's too bad, because I really liked the edgy Toad and the baaaad Alien Encounter as alternatives. The more I think about the direction things are going, the less I want to see any refurbishment of the Haunted Mansion. Who knows what would be left of it by the time it returned!

Perhaps they could rehab the Haunted Mansion and make it brighter in there so little kids won't be scared (a few fluorescent or halogen lights), they could disable the pop up characters in the graveyard so no one will get scared, and last but not leas they could remove all the fake dust and cobwebs so that no one has an allergy attack inside the ride :lol:

 

[MKCP 1985]

Perhaps they could rehab the Haunted Mansion and make it brighter in there so little kids won't be scared (a few fluorescent or halogen lights), they could disable the pop up characters in the graveyard so no one will get scared, and last but not leas they could remove all the fake dust and cobwebs so that no one has an allergy attack inside the ride :lol:

NOOOOOO!
Seriously though, am I way off base here? If the new ride in Fantasyland, whenever it is built, doesn't have a little sizzle to it, then we will know for sure. Oh well, I'll still always go back for Carousel of Progress and Timekeeper. :lol: I mean I'll go for the night parade and fireworks show, whatever they may be called, and the mountains.

 

[cherrynegra]

I agree with you Brad. Sometimes I think people can be nostalgic for nostalgia's sake, holding on to old attractions because of fond memories. And this can impair a park from moving foward and building newer more imaginative attractions. Yes, some attractions are timeless, but others need to be retired in order to make way for the new, and hopefully BETTER IMAGINEERED attractions.

 

[m star]

Here's an idea for bringing back 20k, for those of you who want it. (I never got to experience it, so I wouldn't mind) The way that they had it set up was prone to break downs and other problems. What if it were done as more of a simulator, where the sub does not actually move? Everything could be done outside the windows, and with some new special effects and gentle motion, it could feel like you were really in a sub underwater. I think of it like the hydrolators in the Living Seas, only a lot more so. Don't know if it would work, but it might be more reliable and cheaper than the previous version.

Also, if anyone has been to Disneyland Paris, there is a full size mock up of the Nautilus that you can walk through. They have a giant squid that attacks one of the windows, but again the sub is not really underwater. It could be similar to that, except the things you see outside the window change as the ride progresses.

 

[mrtoad]

It all has to do with what you love and what brings back fond memories. People do get over it but it is tough when an attraction you did every trip is gone when you go back. Kind of like you and your spouse, special friend, or what have you go out to your favorite restaurant because they have the best stuffed lobster in the world. You get there and now they have stuffed crab and you are disappointed because you loved the lobser. Sure the stuffed crab will be good, but it is not the same as what always drove you to go to that restaurant. You will still enjoy eating the crab but in the back of your mind, you miss the lobster because you know you will never get to eat it again.

 

[Woody13]

It all has to do with what you love and what brings back fond memories. People do get over it but it is tough when an attraction you did every trip is gone when you go back. Kind of like you and your spouse, special friend, or what have you go out to your favorite restaurant because they have the best stuffed lobster in the world. You get there and now they have stuffed crab and you are disappointed because you loved the lobser. Sure the stuffed crab will be good, but it is not the same as what always drove you to go to that restaurant. You will still enjoy eating the crab but in the back of your mind, you miss the lobster because you know you will never get to eat it again.

I know what you mean. I really used to enjoy the giant smoked squid tentacles that they sold from the cart in front of the old 20K attraction. I fondly recall my amusement when some people actually thought they were being sold giant octopi tentacles or giant sea serpent ding dongs instead.

However, I got over it.