Why is privacy an issue at WDW?

Excellent example on the insurance company, dreamfinder, of how where there's a will and a scheming business mind, there's a way to profit from RFID at a cost to us.

Someone mentioned again the trade-off between what we give up for what Disney gives us. Banks even aren't always the best at keeping our data secure - but that's my life savings - so I can use a little biometric there maybe. A biometric for a Disney vacation? I'll pass.

You use the internet... There is more personal data compiled on you on a daily basis based on that than Disney could ever hope to amass. If you also use a cell phone, the personal data and locational information available on you increases significantly. Almost all of that data is readily available to anyone who knows how to get it. :shrug:

The only way to avoid data mining entirely is to eschew all forms of electronic commerce and live in a tent without electricity or connectivity of any kind and under sufficient top cover foliage to avoid detection by aircraft or satellites. :rolleyes:

A more realistic approach is to accept that it is going to happen and mitigate any instances that come to light that have potential negative impact. If your insurance rates go up because of incorrect tracking information indicating risky behaviours, challenge the increase.

I think the argument is a bit of a cop-out. Regarding the second paragraph, I don't want to live under a rock. I'm willing to trade certain privelages of living in a modern society for voluntarily giving up some privacy. I'm willing to apply for a driver's license so I can drive on public roads, and I'm willing to leave some traces of activity online in order to connect to people and vast information. I'm willing to walk in the park knowing some tourist or artist might take a photo with me in it.

Regarding using the Internet, the way you use it can vastly impact that. My university account now receives phisher e-mails asking for my password every two days now - ignoring those is a simple first step. I do use Facebook, but I don't put my phone number, address, or other critical info on there, I also have privacy engaged so only friends can read my profile. I also don't fill out those quizzes that have recently been linked to data mining or install any apps, which have been shown to have security issues. I clear my browser cookies before and after logging into Facebook after that ad-tracking fiasco and clear my cookies at least once a day.

I don't use any of the "big 4" search engines 95% of the time anymore, particularly Google, who keep IP and cookie linked records of all searches for the past 18 months, and thoroughly rolled-over for the U.S. government, not to mention the whole AOL privacy dump that the CIO resigned over. I use an SSL connection to Ixquick from now on, they don't track IPs, and they dump all data within 48 hours. I can even use their proxy to process image search results. Nobody but me, not even my ISP, knows what my web search queries are now.
https://ixquick.com

The more reasonable approach is to realize that yes, this stuff can happen, and just giggling over the irony that Amazon deleted 1984 from people's Kindles and Britain having more than 4 million CCTVs isn't a good approach. When Britain's PSCO's and police start hassling photographers to the point where tourists and citizens think-twice before snapping a photo in London, yet the British government feels the need to put CCTVs inside people's own homes, it's time to start standing up and saying "NO."

And before you sit down and take it, there are cases where there is hope. Case in point: Australia's government is currently doing trials with their ISPs to implement country-wide Internet filtering. The U.S. was at a similar precipice in 1996 with the Communications Decency Act, but the CDT, ACLU, EFF, and people like little-'ole-me stepped in and took it to the Supreme Court and stopped it then-and-there. Frighteningly, Australia appears headed the way of the United Arab Emirates or even China in regards to Internet freedom. But the point is, stopping these things can be done! :)
...but be warned: reversing these things can be darn-near-impossible (refer to the new U.S. administration on "preventative dentention," "war on photography," "patriot act," ...)

So get informed. Write letters, to businesses and representatives. Emails if you don't have the time. Just something. :wave:

I'm personally telling Disney - no biometrics whatsoever for me even if just a simple width/height measurement for now - no thanks. I'll just stick to coming once every 1-4 years if you insist on it.
 

Philo

Well-Known Member
Nice post Syntho_Magnetic.

I share a lot of your thoughts and practices although I feel I am less concerned about the usage of data than you are. For example - I happily use google for just about every search although I remove my cache and cookies everytime I restart my browser (although I admit I probably wouldn't if this had to be done manually). I feel that if google use my data to improve their services, that is fine however if they use it to target me for any reason (including long term advertising based on any historical records I didn't consent to) I would be a little miffed.

I, for my sins, use BT as my ISP at home. A while ago they were dead set on introducing Phorm into their system (and had already illegally tested it). Phorm is a system which deliveres targeted adverts to you based on what you had looked at / purchased etc. They do this through monitoring your IP address and the sites visited. BT had said there was no plan on letting customers opt-in (it would be assumed that you would want this service) and I'm sure opt-ing out would be a long and unnecessary process. I phoned BT to complain about this and despite is being in the national press for several weeks by this time - none of their employee's knew a damn thing about it. This doesn't reflect well on the company at all. Thankfully BT have now said they will not use Phorm but to me the damage is done and I will probably leave as soon as my contract ends.

I am also happy for companies to collect data from me in order to deliver a service. If disney feel that a little bit of biometric data will help them provide a better service then I will consent, as long as it is within reason. My finger print is fine, an iris scan, a height measurement, the color of my hair and my bood group type are not acceptable. To provide an effective service, Disney need to know that I am the true holder of the card and a photo + a small amount of personal data (address etc) is more than enough for this.
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
I guess I just don't think I'm a big enough fish for anyone to care. I don't specifically trust Government or corporations to properly handle whatever information they may gather about me be whatever means they are gathering it, nor do I distrust them. The reality for me is that I know there are no organizations large enough, powerful enough and with sufficient manpower and resources to be capable of sifting through the sheer volume of data being collected worldwide to use in a nefarious manner against me personally.

So if Disney introduces RFID so they can tailor my park experience to make it more fun, go right ahead! If the Government wants to put my passport, driver's license, health card, medical records and every bit of Federally collected data about me onto a universal identification card, go right ahead!

Orwell wrote some wonderful stories, but the reality is Big Brother has better things to do than worry about me.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
In reposnse to Syntho_Magnetic.

I am a HUGE advocate for smaller government, and less "tracking in the name of better security/services" I am a big personal libererties king of guy - do not try to take away (or comprimise) my rights. I am also aware of what can (and is) tracked from a wide variety of sources.

However, I also find the WDW finger scan to be a simple, easy, and "grade school" way of providing security. I have no qualms at all about using it.

RFID's - well thats a different story

-
dave
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
I also find the WDW finger scan to be a simple, easy, and "grade school" way of providing security.

How does it provide security? It only provides revenue protection for Disney.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
Privacy is not an issue at WDW.

People who have issues with privacy going to WDW is the real point of discussion.

All of everyone's information is already available for a price. That is the cost of an electronic based society.

You either move on or you can worry endlessly about random aspects of it.

"I won't use the fingerprint reader at WDW, but I'll have 3 credit cards on file with Amazon.com for 1-click checkout," as an example.
 

sublimesting

Well-Known Member
Fingerprint scanning? H-F-NO!

NOT WITHOUT A COURT ORDER, DISNEY!


But your face is filmed several times per day and you don't need a court order to do a facial scan. That's OK though. Disney doesn't need a court order, they can just deny you access.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
No offence to the conspiracy loonies but you have to remember this is government agencies were talking about, Do you really think they are that well organised and able to actually do some of the things that are claimed?

Id be more worried by supermarkets...............................................
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
How does it provide security? It only provides revenue protection for Disney.

Fast typing and sloppy wording. :)

You are right, there is no security involved in it.

In fact there is precious little security provided ANYWHERE in the US.

-dave
 
Disney lets you opt-out of fingerprint scan and use photo ID

Thanks all, glad my post was interesting.

I am also happy for companies to collect data from me in order to deliver a service. If disney feel that a little bit of biometric data will help them provide a better service then I will consent, as long as it is within reason. My finger print is fine, an iris scan, a height measurement, the color of my hair and my bood group type are not acceptable. To provide an effective service, Disney need to know that I am the true holder of the card and a photo + a small amount of personal data (address etc) is more than enough for this.

A bit off-topic, but on Google and the other big 3 again, I don't mind some data mining myself, I use those grocery cards. But when the Bush administration asked for the web addresses from search queries back in 2006, AOL, Live(Bing), and Yahoo all said "we surrender" and Google barely put up a fight. It allegedly didn't contain IP info, but next time it might. And if I were a user in another country, I'd especially be concerned with another government stealing my search data. That's why I hope the Dutch can set an example for other search engines with beating EU Privacy standards: https://ixquick.com

I guess I just think a photo ID is sufficient, and as it turns out, it is.
Walt Disney World: The Government's Tommorland?
I dug up that article on the Disney biometric scanners. According to the article at least, the data did use to be rather simplistic. But now it appears they are indeed scanning the fingerprint, then extracting minutae from it to create the hash. The fingerprint itself should be scrapped immediately, while the hash remains for 30 days. Some advocates point out it would be pretty seamless from the public perspective to upgrade the system to use more data too.

Somewhat to my relief, the article also points out you can opt-out and insist on using a photo ID. They claim that the print is faster and that CMs could be fooled by people looking similar to a photo. Really, is the amount of people using a similar looking friend that rampant?

The article also mentions that face scanning is indeed something that's been looked into.

No offence to the conspiracy loonies but you have to remember this is government agencies were talking about, Do you really think they are that well organised and able to actually do some of the things that are claimed?

Id be more worried by supermarkets...............................................

I'm worried by both businesses and governments. And the face recognition right there is something that worries me. Right now, CCTVs are generally worthless. The millions in the UK have shown to not solve much crime, and I've seen similar situations over here, even their failure in catching car burglars in my own parking lot. But in coming years it won't be much of a stretch to use facial recognition across CCTV networks and plot a pretty good course of where you go throughout the day.

How does it provide security? It only provides revenue protection for Disney.
One of the big points to take away from this thread, I'd say.

You are right, there is no security involved in it.

In fact there is precious little security provided ANYWHERE in the US.
Ah don't get me started on "security theatre"/TSA :ROFLOL:

Anyway, I'm a little happier knowing that I can use photo ID instead, if I choose. I'm still going to fire off a letter to Disney about my opinion though (and maybe a thing or two on PI :p); I've been meaning to mail my congressional representatives lately anyway.

I guess on the fingerprint scanners, opinions are mixed here, but a quote from the end of the article I thought a little chilling:

"It helps public perception to have biometrics deployed on a widespread basis," said Joseph Campbell, the former chairman of the Biometrics Consortium. "The more people use biometrics, the more people are comfortable with it."

Hmm, just reminds me how my dad says that when he was issued his social security card it said in bold letters "not to be used as an identification card." They don't say that anymore :rolleyes: :lookaroun
 

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