Why DL rules and why WDW vacuums

[rkleinlein]

Did you seriously not detect @hakunamatata's saracasm?

With profuse and sincere apologies to @hakunamatata, no I did not detect the sarcasm. The "And they know how to use it" should have been a dead give away, but sometimes it's hard in these forums to figure out what people seriously go gaga over versus what people like me can't understand people going gaga over.

I had just read some posts about the Christmas party in the Magic Kingdom and could not believe the number of people who where going on and on about the "yummy," "free" cookies and hot chocolate that they felt, along with a parade and a few fake snowflakes, make the Christmas party worth $75 per person.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Few things to note, there ARE plenty of rides at Disneyland that are indeed better than WDW (or that it has and WDW doesn't have). And I don't really disagree with regards to DL vs Magic Kingdom (WDW as a whole is much more complicated of a comparison). But here are some exceptions, i'm going to disregard any maintenance problems WDW is going through and just compare the attractions as they were created-

- Small World has a vastly superior external presence at Disneyland, but i'd have to say the ride itself is better at WDW thanks to the entirely flooded show building instead of just the flume itself having water. The scenes feel more open and large as well. So make a pick depending on what is more important to you- the queue or the ride (I value rides over queues myself). Disneyland Paris' (when in good condition) rules over both versions, it has Disneyland's lovely facade AND WDW's indoor ride quality (with some different enhancements of its own).

- Jungle Cruise has a very cool temple scene that tips the scale in its favor. Disneyland again has a nicer queue, but the ride itself goes to WDW.

- Big Thunder. While Disneyland's has some awesome new enhancements which really helps its case (Spirit has mentioned WDW will probably get these sometime soon), i'm still going to give WDW's the edge here. WDW's flooded town scene is a fun scene. There is again a point towards Paris given the awesome way it was built on an island. But between WDW and DL, i'd still say WDW's has an edge of its own.

- Haunted Mansion is kind of a toss up IMO. Hatbox is a nice enhancement that brings DL's up a notch, but WDW's has a cool Escher staircase scene and some differences to make it worthwhile on its own (like the shadowy piano player in front of the spooky window compared to DL's attic pianist). I'm also personally more of a fan of the mansion's facade at WDW, feels much creepier. Lee has also indicated that Hatbox may eventually make his way to WDW as well, we'll see. But I still don't consider WDW's inferior.

And if you want to compare things that Disneyland has but WDW does not, there's Carousel of Progress (which DL doesn't have anymore), Peoplemover (which again DL doesn't have anymore) Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and Country Bear Jamboree. Liberty Square also has Hall of Presidents, which despite some people giving it a negative reputation for being "boring" (I find it underrated), REALLY impresses me with its huge cast of animatronic presidents. You could perhaps compare that to Lincoln at Disneyland in some respects.

There's also plenty in the other three WDW parks that has a lot of merit (yes even with the horrible state of WDW management). Since you mentioned "WDW" in the title instead of Magic Kingdom, and compared the yeti in Matterhorn to Everest, i'm taking this as an invitation to include the other three parks as well (though you can also include DCA's rides as well).

Tower of Terror is far better at DHS than DCA, it both looks better on the outside and is a better ride internally as well (it actually turns into a dark ride on the top floor when the elevator surprises guests by exiting its shaft). There's also the Great Movie Ride, a fantastic ride unique to DHS.

EPCOT even in its current ruined form still has some quality and unique experiences with Spaceship Earth, Living with the Land and American Adventure.

Animal Kingdom itself is one of the best theme parks on earth from a thematic perspective, the park itself is basically one big attraction that has immense value. But ride wise it also has Kilimanjaro Safari for an awesome headliner. Dinosaur could technically be compared to Indy in some respects, but it's still so different that I find it hard to fairly stack it up against Indy as other people attempt. They share nothing in common besides ride system and track layout. Indy has more/better scenery and sets, Dino has some incredibly awesome animatronics (some of the best i've seen). I guess the closest thing you could compare Everest to is Matterhorn, difficult to compare though despite similarities. Everest is a different type of coaster, and is FAR more intense. It also has a very nice queue and some nice (if feeling unfinished in the backwards part) scenery that I think beats Matterhorn in some respects. Sad to say that the one aspect which would give Everest the easy win has been busted for almost a decade now. Matterhorn has gained a lot of respect for its new enhancements though.

I'm at a point where I admit to being extremely negative about WDW, i'm insanely unhappy with the way things are going at the moment. But even I will admit there is still a substantial backlog of classic quality WDW attractions (built long before things went sour there, hopefully will remain until a newer and less idiotic leader gets in). Ones that still give WDW a lot of positive notes compared to all other Disney parks.

Management however is among the aspects where WDW is absolutely dead last on compared to probably every other Disney park on earth (arguably even Paris at the moment, but definitely now that Paris is getting its huge cleanup and return to form).

 

[Californian Elitist]

Few things to note, there ARE plenty of rides at Disneyland that are indeed better than WDW (or that it has and WDW doesn't have). And I don't really disagree with regards to DL vs Magic Kingdom (WDW as a whole is much more complicated of a comparison). But here are some exceptions, i'm going to disregard any maintenance problems WDW is going through and just compare the attractions as they were created-

- Small World has a vastly superior external presence at Disneyland, but i'd have to say the ride itself is better at WDW thanks to the entirely flooded show building instead of just the flume itself having water. The scenes feel more open and large as well. So make a pick depending on what is more important to you- the queue or the ride (I value rides over queues myself). Disneyland Paris' (when in good condition) rules over both versions, it has Disneyland's lovely facade AND WDW's indoor ride quality (with some different enhancements of its own).

- Jungle Cruise has a very cool temple scene that tips the scale in its favor. Disneyland again has a nicer queue, but the ride itself goes to WDW.

- Big Thunder. While Disneyland's has some awesome new enhancements which really helps its case (Spirit has mentioned WDW will probably get these sometime soon), i'm still going to give WDW's the edge here. WDW's flooded town scene is a fun scene. There is again a point towards Paris given the awesome way it was built on an island. But between WDW and DL, i'd still say WDW's has an edge of its own.

- Haunted Mansion is kind of a toss up IMO. Hatbox is a nice enhancement that brings DL's up a notch, but WDW's has a cool Escher staircase scene and some differences to make it worthwhile on its own (like the shadowy piano player in front of the spooky window compared to DL's attic pianist). I'm also personally more of a fan of the mansion's facade at WDW, feels much creepier. Lee has also indicated that Hatbox may eventually make his way to WDW as well, we'll see. But I still don't consider WDW's inferior.

And if you want to compare things that Disneyland has but WDW does not, there's Carousel of Progress (which DL doesn't have anymore), Peoplemover (which again DL doesn't have anymore) Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and Country Bear Jamboree. Liberty Square also has Hall of Presidents, which despite some people giving it a negative reputation for being "boring" (I find it underrated), REALLY impresses me with its huge cast of animatronic presidents. You could perhaps compare that to Lincoln at Disneyland in some respects.

There's also plenty in the other three WDW parks that has a lot of merit (yes even with the horrible state of WDW management). Since you mentioned "WDW" in the title instead of Magic Kingdom, and compared the yeti in Matterhorn to Everest, i'm taking this as an invitation to include the other three parks as well (though you can also include DCA's rides as well).

Tower of Terror is far better at DHS than DCA, it both looks better on the outside and is a better ride internally as well (it actually turns into a dark ride on the top floor when the elevator surprises guests by exiting its shaft). There's also the Great Movie Ride, a fantastic ride unique to DHS.

EPCOT even in its current ruined form still has some quality and unique experiences with Spaceship Earth, Living with the Land and American Adventure.

Animal Kingdom itself is one of the best theme parks on earth from a thematic perspective, the park itself is basically one big attraction that has immense value. But ride wise it also has Kilimanjaro Safari for an awesome headliner. Dinosaur could technically be compared to Indy in some respects, but it's still so different that I find it hard to fairly stack it up against Indy as other people attempt. They share nothing in common besides ride system and track layout. Indy has more/better scenery and sets, Dino has some incredibly awesome animatronics (some of the best i've seen). I guess the closest thing you could compare Everest to is Matterhorn, difficult to compare though despite similarities. Everest is a different type of coaster, and is FAR more intense. It also has a very nice queue and some nice (if feeling unfinished in the backwards part) scenery that I think beats Matterhorn in some respects. Sad to say that the one aspect which would give Everest the easy win has been busted for almost a decade now. Matterhorn has gained a lot of respect for its new enhancements though.

I'm at a point where I admit to being extremely negative about WDW, i'm insanely unhappy with the way things are going at the moment. But even I will admit there is still a substantial backlog of classic quality WDW attractions (built long before things went sour there, hopefully will remain until a newer and less idiotic leader gets in). Ones that still give WDW a lot of positive notes compared to all other Disney parks.

Management however is among the aspects where WDW is absolutely dead last on compared to probably every other Disney park on earth (arguably even Paris at the moment, but definitely now that Paris is getting its huge cleanup and return to form).

I thought I had read you had never ventured to the California parks? Must have been mistaken.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I thought I had read you had never ventured to the California parks? Must have been mistaken.

I have never been to Disneyland (yet), you did not misread. Though I hope you read this before cutting me off with that comment, as I suspect you may be eager to do given your post.

Nothing will ever compare to actually riding a ride in person, i'm perfectly aware of this. However, the comparisons I made between the two parks are regarding inclusion or absence of substantial show elements and/or entire rides. My comments were regarding things that simply exist at one park but don't at the other, it would be going a bit overboard to say i've no way to realize these facts without visiting.

For instance, taken from an alternate side, I am well aware that Pirates at Disneyland has numerous scenes that are missing from WDW's POTC (the bayou, longer caves with more scenes, and a gun powder room at the end). In a way I was even familiar with Disneyland's version of POTC and its additional scenes before I originally rode WDW's as a child. Disney Channel used to rerun a World of Color special on the creation/opening of POTC at Disneyland that contained a full ridethrough of POTC at DL, showing off all the scenes in detail (including those missing from WDW. I was familiar enough with the DL version to actually be disappointed with WDW's (even as a child) missing scenes. I don't think it's unfair for me to point out these additional scenes at Disneyland (despite never having personally been on the ride). While you may think I can't say it due to my lack of in-person experience, I feel i've seen more than enough of Disneyland's Pirates to make an educated statement that i'm sure i'd prefer it over WDW's. Same with Pooh's Hunny Hunt from Japan compared to WDW's. I've ridden WDW's, never ridden Hunny Hunt, i'm still pretty certain Japan's is a superior ride.

To truly appreciate and understand a Disney park and its rides, I think you have to visit it yourself. You won't see me disagree with that. But I do think it would be going a bit too far to ignore someone who is simply pointing out what is there and what isn't. I don't blame Disneyland fans who never visited WDW for preferring their Pirates, as long as they're objective and aware of WHY it's better. The same goes for some of the other rides mentioned in this topic considered better than WDW's versions.

 

[Californian Elitist]

^^^^ The thing is, just because knowing something is or is not in a ride, it still can't compare to first-hand experience. I can bet the WDW vets who have visited both domestic parks that prefer MK's Pirates expected to like DL's version more, simply because there are extra scenes. I know there are extra scenes in MK's Mansion, but it's possible for my opinion to go either way, once I've experienced it for myself. I'm not going to automatically assume I like that version more because I've never experienced it.

 

[rkleinlein]

Everyone has their own opinion about which version of individual attractions are better in this park or that park or what attractions missing in this park or that park tip the scale one way or the other. But by bringing up comparisons of specific attractions the point the original poster makes is that the big picture, the overall experience of Disney World is, sadly, not what it once was (and it seems like everyone agrees with this) while over at Disneyland, despite being 70 years old, the Disney difference is still very much alive and none of the Disney magic has faded.

 

[dweezil78]

I think people are also forgetting how much nostalgia/childhood memories play into our preferences. No matter how much I've grown to love Disneyland as a 15 year transplant to California and feel that MK to MK, it's the superior one to WDW's, I still grew up in the 80s/90s going to WDW and didn't get to DL until 2000.

There's a certain rush of emotion I always get at WDW that is absent at DL. Some might call that 'magic,' I don't know. But there are certain moments -- the trip from the TTC to the MK for example, along with certain smells (something as weird as the mildewy AC smells along the Peoplemover track when you go into buildings), or the anticipation of the Mansion doors opening while you wait under that canopy that will always trigger something deep inside of me every time I experience those. For a lot of people, that subconsciously, could easily sway their opinion of what they personally deem to be better.

Just another perspective on the whole WDW vs DL debate. Not all things are super tangible and placed in a win vs. lose column.

 

[Mickey_777]

This is all still fresh in my mind so I'll just say this:

-IASW out in Anaheim sparkles inside and out. Very impressed. Plus the characters give it a plus for me. I'm not a die hard in that sense.

-New effects are cool on Big thunder but I found the ride to be too smooth since it's major refurb last year/before. It sorta "glides" now. It's supposed to be the wildest ride in the wilderness. Still fun though.

-How underrated is Casey Jr/train? Loved it. Been to DL 4 times for a combined 12 days since 2010 and I just now rode it. Maybe cause we have a toddler now. Who cares it's awesome. Great views and I love how it fits so snug above the tiny villages and around the hedges. It goes thru caves...just awesome.

-Grizzly Peak Airfield still has a long way to go to convince me it's a national park. Those tree can't grow fast enough. New Soarin film was take it or leave it in terms of it's looks and the overall enjoyment vs old version.

-Food Choices between DL, DCA, and DTD are vastly superior and convenient compared to anything at MK or DHS. Only at Epcot or AK can you eat as yummy.

-For as much slack as WDW guests get, DL gets plenty of...(we'll just call them interesting people) from around Southern Cali. No need to go into detail. And yes you can tell they're not visiting from Oregon, Nevada, Colorado, or Arizona.

-Grad nights (went during one night) aren't that bad. No issues with the teens at all.

-RSR feels a lot slower than Test Track and I still with they'd done something different inside the mountain other than giving me more Radiator Springs and characters we've already seen and taken photos of/with. Don't know what but wish they'd done something else inside. Again, still fun though and the mountain range/rockwork and overall area is spectacular.

I'm gonna repeat a lot of this in my TR later so I'll just leave it at that for now.

 

[Mickey_777]

We were probably there together!

Maybe! We were there Sunday May 31st (Bat Day!?), the Monday after plus that Thursday and Friday June 5th.

 

[MichWolv]

Maybe! We were there Sunday May 31st (Bat Day!?), the Monday after plus that Thursday and Friday June 5th.

Hah. I was there June 6, 8, 9. Just missed each other.

 

[Mickey_777]

Hah. I was there June 6, 7, 9. Just missed each other.

Nice, how were the crowds?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Everyone has their own opinion about which version of individual attractions are better in this park or that park or what attractions missing in this park or that park tip the scale one way or the other. But by bringing up comparisons of specific attractions the point the original poster makes is that the big picture, the overall experience of Disney World is, sadly, not what it once was (and it seems like everyone agrees with this) while over at Disneyland, despite being 70 years old, the Disney difference is still very much alive and none of the Disney magic has faded.

Disneyland is 60.

 

[Progress.City]

While most attractions that exist at both WDW and DL are better at DL, Splash Mountain ain't the only one that's better at WDW:
Tower of Terror (the movement of the elevator, etc.)
Astro-Orbiter -- On the 3rd floor in WDW vs. a half-basement in DL
Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh -- Longer ride with added motion on the vehicle for the Tigger bounce section
Jungle Cruise -- Temple section is a notable plus at WDW (although DLR has piranhas and WDW doesn't)

Plus others have the same attraction experiences with other elements making WDW's better:
Star Tours (6 bays in DHS vs. 4 at DLR makes for shorter lines)
Toy Story Mania -- Same attraction, but a far better queue. In fact DCA's TSM queue is about the worst queue ever!
Dumbo -- Better visuals and dueling spinners

Concerning TZToT, yes, I should have included that with Splash, but I was trying to focus on the MK. Besides taking out the entire Fourth Dimension scene in the DL version, the DL makes up for it a little bit with better effects.

 

[Californian Elitist]

-For as much slack as WDW guests get, DL gets plenty of...(we'll just call them interesting people) from around Southern Cali. No need to go into detail. And yes you can tell they're not visiting from Oregon, Nevada, Colorado, or Arizona.

Thank you. I tried to get this across some people here in a thread some weeks ago, and everything I said was ignored.

 

[MichWolv]

-IASW out in Anaheim sparkles inside and out. Very impressed. Plus the characters give it a plus for me. I'm not a die hard in that sense.

Agree. However, I still like WDW's better, because its scale (the ride, not the queue) feels larger.

-New effects are cool on Big thunder but I found the ride to be too smooth since it's major refurb last year/before. It sorta "glides" now. It's supposed to be the wildest ride in the wilderness. Still fun though.

I liked the way it ran and the new effects. Extremely well done -- still seemed rough enough for me.

-Grizzly Peak Airfield still has a long way to go to convince me it's a national park. Those tree can't grow fast enough. New Soarin film was take it or leave it in terms of it's looks and the overall enjoyment vs old version.

Agree with this, although even now, the National Park setting works better than what was there before.

-Food Choices between DL, DCA, and DTD are vastly superior and convenient compared to anything at MK or DHS. Only at Epcot or AK can you eat as yummy.

This I don't agree with. I think the QS at DL and DCA is quite good -- generally better than anywhere at WDW except Epcot. TS at DL and DCA I find lacking. I think there is better TS at Epcot and DHS (Sci-Fi, Mama, Brown Derby, etc.), and equal TS at MK (maybe better, with Be Our Guest). DAK is lacking in good table service (Yak n Yeti being the only one I find worthwhile).

As for Disneyland's DtD, it's a bunch of high-energy, decent food kind of places, not unlike what you find at DtD in Florida. Rainforest=Rainforest; ESPNZone=Planet Hollywood; Ralph Brennan=Wolfgang Puck; Tortilla Jo=Paridiso; Earl of Sandwich=Earl of Sandwich, etc. Break even.

So far, I give DLR a a slight edge on QS, and WDW a slightly larger edge on TS. But add in the hotel dining options, and WDW springs way ahead. IMO, of course.

-Grad nights (went during one night) aren't that bad. No issues with the teens at all.

Same here. I was worried, but there was no need to be.

-RSR feels a lot slower than Test Track and I still with they'd done something different inside the mountain other than giving me more Radiator Springs and characters we've already seen and taken photos of/with. Don't know what but wish they'd done something else inside. Again, still fun though and the mountain range/rockwork and overall area is spectacular.

I love RSR, except for its frequent break-downs. Had FP for noon, but it was down. Went back at 3, and a CM told me my FPs were expired. I told him the ride was down when I came back. He quizzed me as to what time I came back and then checked a list to see if it really was down at that time! I saw the list -- by 3 pm, it had been down three times already.


I'll add a few notes, as long as we're here:

Compared to FP+, classic FP is really annoying. I ran all over the freakin' parks grabbing FPs. It was tiring.

I know how Disneyland will implement FP+, if they do, without MagicBands because of an experience I had when SM went 101 while we were on it. Upon exiting the ride, a CM scanned one of my groups ticket, punched a button on her handheld device, and then said 4 SM fastpasses were now attached to my ticket. When we came back, a CM scanned my ticket again, and let the four of us into FP. The capability is already there.

First time I ever ate at Big Thunder BBQ. I will do so again. Very pleasant, good (not great) food, and reasonable price.

The new effects on the Matterhorn are nicely done. And they have two moving yetis! Of course, the size kind of lessens the effect, as they come off more as growling pets than angry monsters. Still, nice addition. The ride itself though is still jerky enough to be pain-inducing.

New World of Color is absolutely spectacular, except the advertisement at the end. And the little "Control the Fun Wheel" game while you wait for WoC is also great.

 

[Progress.City]

Around January or February, I'll be able to compare three Magic Kingdoms. I'll be going to DLP!

 

[Mickey_777]

Thank you. I tried to get this across some people here in a thread some weeks ago, and everything I said was ignored.

How so? Did no one reply or were they defending the "interesting" people of SoCal?

 

[Californian Elitist]

How so? Did no one reply or were they defending the "interesting" people of SoCal?

I was saying the California parks aren't perfect and was explaining the issues DL fans talk about, but people kept comparing the issues to WDW and completely dismissed what I was saying.

 

[Mickey_777]

So far, I give DLR a a slight edge on QS, and WDW a slightly larger edge on TS. But add in the hotel dining options, and WDW springs way ahead. IMO, of course.

Convenience was key to us. Being able to walk to the Earl or Ralph Brennans on top of what's already offered inside the parks is great. We had TS at Carnation Cafe and Cafe Orleans and enjoyed both of our meals while chatting about how we wish MK (specifically) had options like this.

Compared to FP+, classic FP is really annoying. I ran all over the freakin' parks grabbing FPs. It was tiring.

New World of Color is absolutely spectacular, except the advertisement at the end. And the little "Control the Fun Wheel" game while you wait for WoC is also great.

I did't mind going old school with the paper FP's. Got to bring back some unused ones as souvenirs! Sorry to hear about RSR and the interrogation that ensued when held a FP and it broke down. That happened to us with Indy and they told us they'd honor or FP no matter what time it was once Indy came back up.

WoC for the effects alone is so enjoyable. I knew the SW commercial would come on so it didn't bother me much. Captain America to end the show was odd though...and got nothin' but love for Steve Rogers.

 

[Progress.City]

Thank you. I tried to get this across some people here in a thread some weeks ago, and everything I said was ignored.

I guess it's difficult to see it the way I do, since you are out that way. I see DLR and USO as equals in terms of just about everything. I see WDW as a vaste acreage of partially-built dreams and broken promises. That's just an opinion of someone who spent most his life in Florida and witnessing the construction boom of the 90's come to a complete halt only to be replaced by a different kind of scalfolding - the ones that were placed on Splash Mountain to protecting guests from peices of rock work falling off the ride and hitting people.

I see DL as in a constant state of renewal, renovation, and upgrades. The excuse I got when I first noticed this many years ago from California residents at the time was "Well, WDW has plenty of land and you guys are always building something new because you have tons of vacant land to build on. While, here, in California, we don't have that luxury. To get guest to keep coming back, we can't keep adding - because there's no room, - but we can make the rides better."

So, according to this logic, DL would basically go on as is, rarely adding new rides (without replacing old ones) and the rides themselves will keep getting better and better as they age. While, at WDW, the complete opposite happens: Rides deteriorate, effects stop working. Occasionally, the rides are partially rehabbed to get some effects working again the way they used to and some sections looking new again, but it is rare when a ride actually gets upgrade with brand new effects and show elements. The rule at WDW is the opposite as DL, the older the ride is, the worse it gets. However, brand new rides work perfectly, are in perfect condition, and have all the latest technology effects. Obviously, there are more of these WDW because of its blessing of land. However, during the past decade, there has been far less of these than any time period I could remember.