Why Disneyland’s $1 billion Star Wars land isn’t a bust despite flat attendance - OCR/SCNG

[Animaniac93-98]

they thought this sort of time-locked comic-con cosplay was the solution guests wanted. They thought it was the next step to bringing guests into a theme park universe. IMHO, they also didn’t consider that IRL, the queues, overpriced crap, and time schedules immediately destroy any semblance of world-building they attempted.

The whole "live your Star Wars adventure" angle was doomed to fail as soon as they said you can't wear the costumes we're selling, put your light saber and droids away, cut back on live characters/entertainment, cancelled the dinner theater etc.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Disneyland’s ’80s-era Star Wars rock band had a Wookiee bass player covered in yak fur

The group is the subject of ‘Live from the Space Stage: A Halyx Story,’ a new documentary that debuts Thursday, Aug. 20 on the Defunctland YouTube channel with a festival run under cons…

www.ocregister.com

 

[mickEblu]

@el_super — I’m interested in your opinion. Truly. No offense; I’m not trying to start trouble.

You’ve argued this point many times in defense of SWGE—enough to make me wonder if you have a personal attachment to it IRL — and I’m truly curious to know how you’d apply the same logic to a Wizarding World without its best known characters. Would it work? Could it work?

Because here’s the main thing: I don’t think the new planet was a bad idea. It looks so much like Tattooine, does it really matter what it’s named? IMHO, the big issue involved the selected IP. WDI and Lucasfilm expected the new trilogy to be a bigger cultural hit than it was*, and they thought this sort of time-locked comic-con cosplay was the solution guests wanted. They thought it was the next step to bringing guests into a theme park universe. IMHO, they also didn’t consider that IRL, the queues, overpriced crap, and time schedules immediately destroy any semblance of world-building they attempted.

*Don’t quote box office numbers. Plenty of movies make tons of money and disappear from the public consciousness. Culturally, classic SW still reigns over the prequels and sequels, not to mention the EU or cartoons. Only “The Child” merch stands alongside classic SW sales, and that’s because people see a cute baby version of Yoda.

Don’t forget they cut out all the wandering droids, aliens and other life from the land. So when a confused Trowbridge asks a live audience “do you guys not like living out your story” it makes me wonder what the heck he’s taking about? What sort of cosplay story does he think guests are engaging in? “Bright suns” and two hundred dollar lightsabers? Basically what separates the Galaxies Edge that was presented to us in his mind from the other lands except for the fact that it’s not as fun or whimsical?

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

It's a runaway success.

 

[DanielBB8]

Role playing the Sequel Trilogy timeline is the hard sell. There’s no cinematic story to role play from. You have to buy the book that features the blue haired Vi Moradi character. It’s like why bother.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Would people accept a Harry Potter World that didn’t prominently feature Harry, Ron, or Hermione??

Or do we suppose they’d be just fine with things centered around “extended universe” characters like Reginald Wafflehouse and Petunia Flufflepot? Or everyone’s favorite Gremlin, Haydook Babaganoosh.

Hogsmead and Diagon Alley very much work without Harry, Ron and Hermione. They’re not really in the lands. There are no meet and greets or walk around characters. They show up in the rides, but not the newest one which is still great and are not that important to Forbidden Journey or Hogwart’s Express. The Wizarding World works because a big part of those stories is these secret places that we are now exploring. The lands aren’t about the characters, they’re about the places.

The specific timing of Galaxy’s Edge compounds it’s problems but the fundamental problem is that it is a land based on Star Wars. There are many locations in Star Wars but they lack definition as places in the architectural sense. They’re not uniquely identifiable spaces of habitation but more extreme climates and landscapes. Even Coruscant is just known as a never ending metropolis, the city splayed out as landscape. There are no neighborhoods or distinctive locales. Mos Eisley is the go to setting for every Armchair Imagineer because it’s the only one we ever spend any time in and see as a distinctive place, but even then it’s actual design is not all that interesting. Most of it is big blank walls. Walls define many of the built locales unless they’re a hangar. Even Cloud City had to have windows added as part of the Special Edition. The Jetsons lived in glass domes because the view is a big part of the cool factor of living in the sky. There is never that city-level place that is defined and explored, there is no Star Wars equivalent of Diagon Alley.

An original planet was the best chance of making a Star Wars land work but it would have meant utilizing a new aesthetic to create that never seen environment of an inhabited space. Black Spire Outpost feels lifeless because it uses design language that has long been known to create stifling environments but are identifiable as the design language of Star Wars. The specific chronological setting removes the aspect of these harsh environments that is exciting, the anarchic lawlessness of the Outer Rim, by setting it in the one period where they are afraid of a galactic power so that even those who do engage in the role playing aspect are immediately denied the most alluring aspect of the fantasy.

 

[DanielBB8]

They should just apply the already known successful Glow Fest formula to star wars land. Whatever festival wdi makes up is happening on battu today, everyday and it attracts all walks of life.

Install permanent festival decor and additional bars and food booths along the too wide, desolate path that isn't the "meh marketplace." Increase f&b sales and eases the strain on the indoor bar.

Storywise it still works. Why wouldn't Rey and chewie come to a party? Why wouldn't they let a space pirate use their ship while they're on the planet? Why wouldn't kylo be following them and/or crash the party on his own accord? Why wouldn't we as guests leave the party and stumble upon the resistance base? Or why wouldn't the resistance purposely come this particular "day" to recruit drunken cannon fodder?

Good idea for a theme park, but not good enough for Star Wars canon. They have a celebration in victory. Episode 1, 4, and 6 have celebrations when they win. That's why it's important to revert Batuu back to Tatooine. They can celebrate the Rebel Alliance victory over the Empire at Mos Eisley every night just outside the Cantina similar to WDW's New Year's Celebration at Pleasure Island. If they convert the entrance to Rise of Resistance to Endor, they can celebrate there with Ewoks. 2 planet celebrations per night.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Hogsmead and Diagon Alley very much work without Harry, Ron and Hermione. They’re not really in the lands. There are no meet and greets or walk around characters. They show up in the rides, but not the newest one which is still great and are not that important to Forbidden Journey or Hogwart’s Express. The Wizarding World works because a big part of those stories is these secret places that we are now exploring. The lands aren’t about the characters, they’re about the places.

The specific timing of Galaxy’s Edge compounds it’s problems but the fundamental problem is that it is a land based on Star Wars. There are many locations in Star Wars but they lack definition as places in the architectural sense. They’re not uniquely identifiable spaces of habitation but more extreme climates and landscapes. Even Coruscant is just known as a never ending metropolis, the city splayed out as landscape. There are no neighborhoods or distinctive locales. Mos Eisley is the go to setting for every Armchair Imagineer because it’s the only one we ever spend any time in and see as a distinctive place, but even then it’s actual design is not all that interesting. Most of it is big blank walls. Walls define many of the built locales unless they’re a hangar. Even Cloud City had to have windows added as part of the Special Edition. The Jetsons lived in glass domes because the view is a big part of the cool factor in living in the sky. There is never that city-level place that is defined and explored, there is no Star Wars equivalent of Diagon Alley.

An original planet was the best chance of making a Star Wars land work but it would have meant utilizing a new aesthetic to create that never seen environment of an inhabited space. Black Spire Outpost fills lifeless because it uses design language that has long been known to create stifling environments but are identifiable as the design language of Star Wars. The specific chronological setting removes the aspect of these harsh environments that is exciting, the anarchic lawlessness of the Outer Rim by setting it in the one period where they are afraid of a galactic power so that even those who do engage in the role playing aspect are immediately denied the most alluring aspect of the fantasy.

But IMO, they "work" without the main characters because people are already familiar with them if they've read the books. And those who haven't read them will likely have an easier time "understanding" the world around them because it's immediately apparent what purpose they serve. So then, instead of it's main characters, do you think people would have accepted a Wizarding World that wasn't set in a recognizable place?

What is a person who has never seen a single Star Wars film supposed to feel when they cross into Black Spire Outpost?

 

[lazyboy97o]

So then, instead of it's main characters, do you think people would have accepted a Wizarding World that wasn't set in a recognizable place?

The lands do work without any previous knowledge of the stories. They’re rather normal, well designed places with an added twist. A good chunk of the Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Diagon Alley is Horizont Alley and Carkitt Market.

 

[DanielBB8]

But IMO, they "work" without the main characters because people are already familiar with them if they've read the books. And those who haven't read them will likely have an easier time "understanding" the world around them because it's immediately apparent what purpose they serve. So then, instead of it's main characters, do you think people would have accepted a Wizarding World that wasn't set in a recognizable place?

What is a person who has never seen a single Star Wars film supposed to feel when they cross into Black Spire Outpost?

Don't the movies count? They did an excellent representation of the land in the movies so no one needs to read the books. It's obvious they don't need the characters because the land are exact representations of what we saw in the movies. The only thing that's made up is the jazz singer show. The visitors trace the steps of Harry, Ron and Hermione. There's a full circuit if you care to watch at least the first movie.

Start at Diagon Alley, get your wand, take the train to Hogsmead, walk to Hogswarts Castle, get inducted, take the return train to Hogmead, go to Gringotts, visit Knockturn alley. There's quite a bit to explore in both lands.

I wish they will add Diagon Alley at USH. It's an amazing land and Gringott's should replace The Mummy ride there.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Don't the movies count? They did an excellent representation of the land in the movies so no one needs to read the books. It's obvious they don't need the characters because the land are exact representations of what we saw in the movies. The only thing that's made up is the jazz singer show. The visitors trace the steps of Harry, Ron and Hermione. There's a full circuit if you care to watch at least the first movie.

Start at Diagon Alley, get your wand, take the train to Hogsmead, walk to Hogswarts Castle, get inducted, take the return train to Hogmead, go to Gringotts, visit Knockturn alley. There's quite a bit to explore in both lands.

I wish they will add Diagon Alley at USH. It's an amazing land and Gringott's should replace The Mummy ride there.

Movies/Books... Same thing. It's all about things that are familiar.

 

[Mac Tonight]

The lands do work without any previous knowledge of the stories. They’re rather normal, well designed places with an added twist. A good chunk of the Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Diagon Alley is Horizont Alley and Carkitt Market.

Is that exclusive to USO? I don't recall ever hearing those names here in Hollywood.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is that exclusive to USO? I don't recall ever hearing those names here in Hollywood.

Only the Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Hogsmead has been replicated. Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Diagon Alley at Universal Studios Florida is an Orlando exclusive. Because Diagon Alley itself is too small a good portion of the land is the original creation of Horizont Alley and Carkitt Market. They're an expansion on Diagon Alley as an idea but are also new places not known from the books or movies.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Re-reading some of my own posts has brought some things to mind. It might seem like I'm coming from a place where I believe that people can't have "fun" or "accept" a theme park land unless it's full of familiar elements. That's not true. In fact, as an Epcot lover, I'm a very strong proponent of original, unique concepts that no one would have prior knowledge of.

With regards to SWL though, I think @RobWDW1971 touched on what I've been trying to get at. SWL, by and large, isn't a place I want to be. Having prior SW knowledge, it doesn't move in me any sense of familiarity or excitement. And if I try to suspend my disbelief further and pretend I didn't have any prior knowledge, it still wouldn't get any better.

Thinking about all the different lands and environments in the park, SWL sticks out like a sore thumb of design and functionality.

 

[DanielBB8]

Re-reading some of my own posts has brought some things to mind. It might seem like I'm coming from a place where I believe that people can't have "fun" or "accept" a theme park land unless it's full of familiar elements. That's not true. In fact, as an Epcot lover, I'm a very strong proponent of original, unique concepts that no one would have prior knowledge of.

With regards to SWL though, I think @RobWDW1971 touched on what I've been trying to get at. SWL, by and large, isn't a place I want to be. Having prior SW knowledge, it doesn't move in me any sense of familiarity or excitement. And if I try to suspend my disbelief further and pretend I didn't have any prior knowledge, it still wouldn't get any better.

Thinking about all the different lands and environments in the park, SWL sticks out like a sore thumb of design and functionality.

If you're going to take on Star Wars, the biggest IP ever before they botched it, they need familiar places. Disney theme parks don't need familiar, but they use familiar places to a great extent generically and doubled down with familiar Disney Icons.

They got to get the Star Wars look and feel right. They done neither. They needed familiar Star Wars icons. I thought it would be the Millennium Falcon and the Cantina. They transplanted it in an alternative universe.

 

[October82]

Re-reading some of my own posts has brought some things to mind. It might seem like I'm coming from a place where I believe that people can't have "fun" or "accept" a theme park land unless it's full of familiar elements. That's not true. In fact, as an Epcot lover, I'm a very strong proponent of original, unique concepts that no one would have prior knowledge of.

With regards to SWL though, I think @RobWDW1971 touched on what I've been trying to get at. SWL, by and large, isn't a place I want to be. Having prior SW knowledge, it doesn't move in me any sense of familiarity or excitement. And if I try to suspend my disbelief further and pretend I didn't have any prior knowledge, it still wouldn't get any better.

Thinking about all the different lands and environments in the park, SWL sticks out like a sore thumb of design and functionality.

Themed spaces work when they tap into emotional experience and cultural knowledge. They depend on prior knowledge, and make no sense without it. That prior knowledge isn't exclusively franchise knowledge though.

Some IP based spaces (Star Wars, Marvel) depend on their source films to create that experience, substituting franchise for cultural knowledge. This can work for a subset of people for whom the franchise has deep emotional resonance, but it lacks depth beyond that. Those IP spaces (Cars Land, Wizarding World) that work, do so because their franchises have deep cultural roots. Cars Land is a "Cars" take on Route 66. Star Wars Land by contrast is just inconsistent in where it taps into these deeper roots, and its franchise ties are to the (arguably) least compelling part of the franchise.

 

[Mac Tonight]

If you're going to take on Star Wars, the biggest IP ever before they botched it, they need familiar places. Disney theme parks don't need familiar, but they use familiar places to a great extent generically and doubled down with familiar Disney Icons.

They got to get the Star Wars look and feel right. They done neither. They needed familiar Star Wars icons. I thought it would be the Millennium Falcon and the Cantina. They transplanted it in an alternative universe.

I agree. It really does feel like a land created by someone who didn't have the full license to make it truly Star Wars themed.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Themed spaces work when they tap into emotional experience and cultural knowledge. They depend on prior knowledge, and make no sense without it. That prior knowledge isn't exclusively franchise knowledge though.

Some IP based spaces (Star Wars, Marvel) depend on their source films to create that experience, substituting franchise for cultural knowledge. This can work for a subset of people for whom the franchise has deep emotional resonance, but it lacks depth beyond that. Those IP spaces (Cars Land, Wizarding World) that work, do so because their franchises have deep cultural roots. Cars Land is a "Cars" take on Route 66. Star Wars Land by contrast is just inconsistent in where it taps into these deeper roots, and its franchise ties are to the (arguably) least compelling part of the franchise.

I agree 100% and love that Cars Land is such a superior example of doing an IP-based land correctly.

 

[lazyboy97o]

With regards to SWL though, I think @RobWDW1971 touched on what I've been trying to get at. SWL, by and large, isn't a place I want to be. Having prior SW knowledge, it doesn't move in me any sense of familiarity or excitement. And if I try to suspend my disbelief further and pretend I didn't have any prior knowledge, it still wouldn't get any better.

Because the locations of Star Wars are not really where you want to be, you want to be out in a space ship flying around to all sorts of different places, but those places are not really important. You want a sense of limitless freedom. You want Star Tours.

Thinking about all the different lands and environments in the park, SWL sticks out like a sore thumb of design and functionality.

Disneyland is very much an urban place. It is the Architecture of Reassurance. A place built around the best of people, where we come together, where we experience together. The places of Star Wars are the Architecture of Oppression be it the harsh elements of a Tatooine or the political power of a Star Destroyer. It's an exciting world but it is not really a happy world.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Because the locations of Star Wars are not really where you want to be, you want to be out in a space ship flying around to all sorts of different places, but those places are not really important. You want a sense of limitless freedom. You want Star Tours.


Disneyland is very much an urban place. It is the Architecture of Reassurance. A place built around the best of people, where we come together, where we experience together. The places of Star Wars are the Architecture of Oppression be it the harsh elements of a Tatooine or the political power of a Star Destroyer. It's an exciting world but it is not really a happy world.

Honestly, when I think of "living my Star Wars Adventure", I envision:
-A giant laser tag battle in a Star Destroyer where you and your "team" are instrumental in helping the Rebels disable a weapon made by the Empire.
-A high-speed X-Wing or Speeder Bike multi-track coaster experience where you have to catch up to the rest of your squad amidst heavy resistance fire.
-A dining experience in Cloud City high above the rest of the land.
-Actual roaming droids and strange, otherworldly Bantha-like creatures that take your breath away when they lumber down the street.