Why are they closing Snow White?

[Rob562]

That still makes zero sense. There is no way on earth that a M&G costs more to operate than a ride. LOL There are a h*** of a lot more employees that deal with a daily run ride than there ever will be for a M&G plus you have the utility costs to operate it. Saying a M&G costs more is just pure insanity. :lol: You'll never convince anyone that the (as you put it) 4 CMs for the M&G cost more than all of the CMs it takes to run a ride.

Which CMs are you counting when you say "all the CMs"?

Yes, I could see including a maintenance CM to cover upkeep of the attraction, but those CMs cover the entire park, so really it'd only be a fraction of one CM added into the equasion.

But if you're talking about all the CMs that operate the attraction throughout the day, then no, you can't count them all at once.

Yes, Snow White might be operated by a dozen different people during a normal day, but when one of those CMs isn't actually *at* Snow White, they're running a different attraction nearby, or they're taking an unpaid, off-the-clock break. Those CMs not present at the ride during the period of time being examined (the theoretical hour of time we've been discussing) cannot be counted. So for calculating the staffing expenses of Snow White, it's just two CMs.


Lastly, which I think is what some people might be missing, we're *not* counting *hourly* operating costs here. We're counting *per Guest experience* costs. Attractions, even the low-capacity ones, have a higher Guest-per-hour capacity.

If an attraction costs $1000/hr to run/staff, and a M&G costs $300/hr to staff, some would simply look at it as the M&G being cheaper.
But then you factor in hourly capacity. So 1500 people get to go on that attraction, and 400 people get to meet that character. The attraction is now 67-cents-per-Guest-experience, and the M&G is now 75-cents-per-Guest-experience.

-Rob

 

[BigThunderMatt]

That still makes zero sense. There is no way on earth that a M&G costs more to operate than a ride. LOL There are a h*** of a lot more employees that deal with a daily run ride than there ever will be for a M&G plus you have the utility costs to operate it. Saying a M&G costs more is just pure insanity. :lol: You'll never convince anyone that the (as you put it) 4 CMs for the M&G cost more than all of the CMs it takes to run a ride.

Yoda actually speaks the truth for the most part. Attraction CM's, on the whole, are paid lower than entertainment CM's. What comes into play though is that certain attractions may have cast members who are significantly higher seniority and therefore making much more than base rate per hour. However, a handful of high seniority, higher-paid cast members in the morning is negated in the evening by an almost all-CP cast that is paid lower than even base rate for starting FT and PT cast members in the same position.

However, character ATTENDANTS aside, photopass and fur/face characters have a higher starting rate than attractions cast members, plus taking seniority into account, therefore an attraction with many yet lower paid cast members will still theoretically be cheaper to operate than a M&G with fewer but higher paid cast members.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Yoda actually speaks the truth for the most part. Attraction CM's, on the whole, are paid lower than entertainment CM's. What comes into play though is that certain attractions may have cast members who are significantly higher seniority and therefore making much more than base rate per hour. However, a handful of high seniority, higher-paid cast members in the morning is negated in the evening by an almost all-CP cast that is paid lower than even base rate for starting FT and PT cast members in the same position.

However, character ATTENDANTS aside, photopass and fur/face characters have a higher starting rate than attractions cast members, plus taking seniority into account, therefore an attraction with many yet lower paid cast members will still theoretically be cheaper to operate than a M&G with fewer but higher paid cast members.

Even added on to all stated above, you don't just have 4 CMs at a meet and greet. You may have multiple "friends" of the characters due to breaks, multiple rooms, etc. Also add on a higher cost for wardrobe and makeup. I could easily see a meet and greet costing more than the Snow White attraction since its one of your basic attractions with no complicated AAs, special effects that need constant upkeep, etc.

 

[BrightImagine]

Thank you kbmum. Meet & greets often get denounced on these boards as if they are cheap or somehow cheating the guest. For some physical reasons, my daughter does not enjoy most rides... but her favorite part of our trips, by far, is meeting characters. I never would have sought them out before I was a parent, but I can't tell you how many unforgettable moments we have had with character performers. Here are a few though.

- My daughter went up to Mulan and asked her about a line in Reflection, and Mulan knelt down with my daughter and told her entire story to her.
- Tinker Bell found out that it was our last day in the park (after spending many hours in the fairy queue and fairy room!!) and sprinkled pixie dust on all of us for our trip home.
- Marie signed an autograph with my daughter's name, in special pink ink after we had to wait a little extra to see her.

I have spent more time than I ever though possible in character queues and restaurants. I'm just endlessly amazed with character performers and I am all for anything that reduces wait time for meeting characters.

But anyway, my question is... it's been implied in many places on these board that the Princess M&G in the Snow White building is a temporary solution... so... what's next? Where will the princesses without attractions or restaurants go? I've tried to decipher the hints and I just can't think of a solution.

 

[Master Yoda]

Thank you kbmum. Meet & greets often get denounced on these boards as if they are cheap or somehow cheating the guest. For some physical reasons, my daughter does not enjoy most rides... but her favorite part of our trips, by far, is meeting characters. I never would have sought them out before I was a parent, but I can't tell you how many unforgettable moments we have had with character performers. Here are a few though.

- My daughter went up to Mulan and asked her about a line in Reflection, and Mulan knelt down with my daughter and told her entire story to her.
- Tinker Bell found out that it was our last day in the park (after spending many hours in the fairy queue and fairy room!!) and sprinkled pixie dust on all of us for our trip home.
- Marie signed an autograph with my daughter's name, in special pink ink after we had to wait a little extra to see her.

I have spent more time than I ever though possible in character queues and restaurants. I'm just endlessly amazed with character performers and I am all for anything that reduces wait time for meeting characters.

But anyway, my question is... it's been implied in many places on these board that the Princess M&G in the Snow White building is a temporary solution... so... what's next? Where will the princesses without attractions or restaurants go? I've tried to decipher the hints and I just can't think of a solution.

I do not think that the Snow Whit building becoming a meet n greet will be temporary thing as it is essentially replacing the lost meet n greet that was in toon town.

 

[cslafferty]

When my kids were little, their main goal was to fill those autograph books! Meeting, touching, hugging, interacting with the characters was magic come to life for them. And, the Snow White ride used to scare the **** out of them! So, I bid a fond "farewell" to Snow White. We'll see you on the mine coaster ride real soon!! :wave:

 

[MegLovesDisney]

Good point...I wish Nightmare Before Christmas was Disney...or an awesome Alice in Wonderland ride would be GREAT!

 

[Hakunamatata]

I wish Nightmare Before Christmas was Disney...

Disney did do Nightmare Before Christmas, or at least they have the licensing rights to it.

 

[danlb_2000]

Disney did do Nightmare Before Christmas, or at least they have the licensing rights to it.

They do a Nightmare Before Christmas overlay to the Haunted Mansion in Disneyland at Christmas each year.

Dan

 

[TP2000]

They do a Nightmare Before Christmas overlay to the Haunted Mansion in Disneyland at Christmas each year.

Dan

They've been doing that overlay at Disneyland for ten years, and Tim Burton still gives his thumbs up approval to it. Here is Mr. Burton recently at Disneyland with his wife, before they went inside the mansion to ride his Nightmare Before Christmas attraction.

They also do this Burton overlay at the Haunted Mansion in Tokyo Disneyland. And the new Tim Burton Alice In Wonderland movie is said to be the basis and intellectual property behind the new "Mad Tea Party" nighttime street party at Disney California Adventure next summer.

So all of Burton's biggest hits are in play legally and operationally for Disney theme parks in this country. It would just be up to the local management team in Orlando to decide to do it and shell out the money for it.

 

[danlb_2000]

They've been doing that overlay at Disneyland for ten years, and Tim Burton still gives his thumbs up approval to it. Here is Mr. Burton recently at Disneyland with his wife, before they went inside the mansion to ride his Nightmare Before Christmas attraction.

Well, technically with his partner (Helena Bonham Carter) since they never got married.

Dan

 

[TheBeatles]

Originally, the new princess m&g was supposed to be temporary. I haven't seen that word being used the FLE plans changed.

I've heard that some of Snow's ride track is being saved for a future attraction.

 

[JimJam]

Reincarnate Toad's.

I completely agree :ROFLOL:

 

[JimJam]

They've been doing that overlay at Disneyland for ten years, and Tim Burton still gives his thumbs up approval to it. Here is Mr. Burton recently at Disneyland with his wife, before they went inside the mansion to ride his Nightmare Before Christmas attraction.

They also do this Burton overlay at the Haunted Mansion in Tokyo Disneyland. And the new Tim Burton Alice In Wonderland movie is said to be the basis and intellectual property behind the new "Mad Tea Party" nighttime street party at Disney California Adventure next summer.

So all of Burton's biggest hits are in play legally and operationally for Disney theme parks in this country. It would just be up to the local management team in Orlando to decide to do it and shell out the money for it.

how old is his wife?

 

[danlb_2000]

how old is his wife?

The picture was taken in 2008 so she would have been 42 then, although she looks a lot younger in that picture.

 

[Lord Pheonix]

You have to be kidding me.....where is that data coming from?

Ride Maintenance $$$
CMs to Operate Ride $$$
Utilties $$
Real Estate $$$

actually i understand where your coming from, so ill explain:

lets say for te sake of the disscussion that it costs $100 per hour to operate a ride like sw and the same $100 per hour to operate a m&g. the line holds an indetermined amount of people, but only one or 2 people at a time can meet the charactor, averaging 5 to 10 people every 10 minutes. 60 minutes in an hour, thats 30 to 60 people per hour that the $100 cost is spread across. now take any dark ride, take the 10 minutes and see how much more people can cycle through that ride if it has, lets say 30 cars on a infinate loop, each car holds at least 2 people, thats at least 60 people, with the average ride length of only 5 minutes, that meens at least 120 people every 10 minutes the the $100 cost can be spread across.

basically its cheaper per person to run a dark ride the the m and g. simple economic volume

 

[Rob562]

Originally, the new princess m&g was supposed to be temporary. I haven't seen that word being used the FLE plans changed.

I've heard that some of Snow's ride track is being saved for a future attraction.

It wouldn't surprise me if they just build a floor over top of the existing ride track. It at least leaves them with the most options. If, in the future, they decide that some or all of the existing track works for a new attraction, they've saved the money.

Better to rip it out later when they know for-sure they don't need it, than rip it out now and then later say "You know, if only we'd kept that track..."

They covered over the parts of the ride trough they took out at Imagination...

-Rob

 

[RSoxNo1]

how old is his wife?

The picture was taken in 2008 so she would have been 42 then, although she looks a lot younger in that picture.

For clarification his wife/girlfriend (pictured) is Helena Bonham Carter

 

[TheBeatles]

It wouldn't surprise me if they just build a floor over top of the existing ride track. It at least leaves them with the most options. If, in the future, they decide that some or all of the existing track works for a new attraction, they've saved the money.

Better to rip it out later when they know for-sure they don't need it, than rip it out now and then later say "You know, if only we'd kept that track..."

They covered over the parts of the ride trough they took out at Imagination...

-Rob

I think Imagination's track covering was more so to save time and money.

 

[DisneyJunkie]

Not that I have any say in it, but after watching some ride-throughs on YouTube of rides in Disneyland not in WDW, I think they ought bring the Alice in Wonderland dark ride to the soon-to-be-former Snow White spot. Yes, I'm aware of the Tea Cup ride in close proximity already, so if not Alice in Wonderland, then how about making it on Robin Hood or Pinocchio or Tarzan or even Tangled?