While HM Shines, PotC Fades

[Brian_WDW74]

During the same time frame, these Magic Kingdom attractions at WDW were/are closed;

Haunted Mansion (big four month rehab completed 9/13/07)
Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
Magic Carpet's of Aladdin

The Magic Carpets of Aladdin is scheduled to be closed from Dec. 2 - 8. Using that as a minimum number of days for a closure to be included on your list, you need to add these:

Astro Orbiter
Donald's Boat
Main Street Cinema (This isn't listed on disneyworld.com, but several sites are reporting it. Since it's not official, I'll list it as a "maybe.")

There are shorter refurbs scheduled for Liberty Square Riverboat and Pooh's Playful Spot. So while the list still isn't as extensive as it is for Disneyland, I don't think it's all that short, either.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I blame the vibrations caused by wand removal

 

[Timothy Q Mouse]

Maybe George is jealous of all the attention the Ghost Host is getting!

 

[dandaman]

You need top notch nightly maintenance and a management team that isn't afraid to close a ride for a week or two each year for bigger maintenance lest they "RUIN SOMEONES VACATION!!!"

Disneyland's calendar is full of rehabs where there are always at least one or two rides closed even though it may "RUIN SOMEONES VACATION!"

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/disney_family_vacation_ruined_by

 

[hack2112]

I blame the vibrations caused by wand removal

Here, here!

 

[Dragonrider1227]

I rode it in June and it seemed pretty good to me. Stuff happens though. Disney World is still run by humans after all. Not to mention, I've always thought Disneyland can afford more often refurbs because they're only two parks, three hotels, and a Downtown area, while Disney World is four parks, (all larger than Disneyland) dozens and dozens of hotels, two waterparks, and a downtown area. So if Disney World and Disneyland both made $1 million each, Disney World would have to spread it around much more than Disneyland would and so certain refurbs have to wait. That's my theory anyway.

 

[the-reason14]

I rode it in June and it seemed pretty good to me. Stuff happens though. Disney World is still run by humans after all. Not to mention, I've always thought Disneyland can afford more often refurbs because they're only two parks, three hotels, and a Downtown area, while Disney World is four parks, (all larger than Disneyland) dozens and dozens of hotels, two waterparks, and a downtown area. So if Disney World and Disneyland both made $1 million each, Disney World would have to spread it around much more than Disneyland would and so certain refurbs have to wait. That's my theory anyway.

Hmm, never thought about it like that before. It also could be noted that while WDW has more it makes more money then DL does, so it should have more money to fund out for refurbs and such. But like you said they have more to spread out and spend upon so I dont know. Hmmm :lookaroun

 

[DisneyNeighbor]

Why does a ride have to be shut down to do preventative maintenance? I know the ride mechanics may require time to take apart and reassemble. But when you are talking about showpieces, can't the majority of them be removed or fixed overnight. Disney must have a preventative maintenance schedule on each and every ride. Does anyone know what type of schedule is in place?

 

[TomorrowlandTyler]

Upcoming WDW Refurbishments

Upcoming WDW Refurbishments from Oct. 1 2007 through as far out as listed - Official from Disney's "Guest" web page (no you can't see the page itself, though it is public info and intended to be shared with guests)


MAGIC KINGDOM

October:
Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - Closed for Refurbishment [October 1 - October 24]
Main Street Cinema - Closed for Refurbishment [October 8 - October 31]

November:
Main Street Cinema - Closed for Refurbishment [November 1 - November 20]

December:
The Magic Carpets of Aladdin - Closed for Refurbishment [December 2 - December 8]

January '08:
Tony's Town Square Restaurant - Closed for Refurbishment [January 5- January 27]


EPCOT

October:
Japan Resturants - Closed for Refurbishment [October 1 - October 15]
Spaceship Earth - Closed for Refurbishment [October 1 - October 31]

November:
Spaceship Earth - Closed for Refurbishment [November 1 - November 13]

December:
None

January '08:
Nine Dragons (China) - Closed for Refurbishment [January 6- January 31]

February '08:
Nine Dragons (China) - Closed for Refurbishment [February 1- February 29]

March '08:
Nine Dragons (China) - Closed for Refurbishment [March 1- March 31]

April '08:
Nine Dragons (China) - Closed for Refurbishment [April 1- April 30]

May '08:
Nine Dragons (China) - Closed for Refurbishment [May 1- May 31]

June '08:
Nine Dragons (China) - Closed for Refurbishment [June 1- June 30]

July '08:
Nine Dragons (China) - Closed for Refurbishment [July 1- July 31]

August '08:
Nine Dragons (China) - Reopening August 1 - Tentatively


DISNEY HOLLYWOOD STUDIOS

October:
Rock 'n' Roller Coaster Starring Aerosmith - Closed for Refurbishment [October 1 - October 4]

January '08:
50's Prime Time Cafe - Closed for Refurbishment [January 20- January 31]

February '08:
50's Prime Time Cafe - Closed for Refurbishment [February 1- February 2]


ANIMAL KINGDOM

Tusker House Restaurant and Kusafiri Coffee Shop & Bakery - Closed for Refurbishment [Through November 16]

 

[Nicole220]

I rode it in June and it seemed pretty good to me. Stuff happens though. Disney World is still run by humans after all. Not to mention, I've always thought Disneyland can afford more often refurbs because they're only two parks, three hotels, and a Downtown area, while Disney World is four parks, (all larger than Disneyland) dozens and dozens of hotels, two waterparks, and a downtown area. So if Disney World and Disneyland both made $1 million each, Disney World would have to spread it around much more than Disneyland would and so certain refurbs have to wait. That's my theory anyway.

That's been my take on it as well.

 

[CSUFSteve]

I rode it in June and it seemed pretty good to me. Stuff happens though. Disney World is still run by humans after all. Not to mention, I've always thought Disneyland can afford more often refurbs because they're only two parks, three hotels, and a Downtown area, while Disney World is four parks, (all larger than Disneyland) dozens and dozens of hotels, two waterparks, and a downtown area. So if Disney World and Disneyland both made $1 million each, Disney World would have to spread it around much more than Disneyland would and so certain refurbs have to wait. That's my theory anyway.

That's interesting but it's not quite how Disneyland economics work. Actually, for many years, it was the converse. The fact is, WDW and DLR do not both make a million, WDW's revenue is by far the largest slice of the WDPR pie. The previously prevailing 'wisdom' was that since DLR's revenue contribution to WDPR is x% less than WDW, DLR justified a similar relative investment compared to WDW. That may seem like it makes sense except for this little thing called 'fixed costs'. Until Pressler's arrival, Disneyland had always been operated under the assumption that there was a certain level of maintenance, a certain schedule of rehabs, cycling programs, paint jobs, landscaping, etc., that had to always be done, regardless of the attendance, to maintain the Four Keys: Safety, Show, Courtesy, and Efficiency. You obviously had to maintain the attractions to ensure #1, you have to keep things looking brand new b/c that was the operating principle of Disneyland and the 'Disneyland Show' is what keeps guests coming, you had to have the proper number of CM's for both Show and to ensure Courtesy such that CM's were not overstressed, had some amount of proportionality to guests, etc., and all of these keys affect Efficiency of your operation.

On top of those fixed costs, you had to have to some level of investment in new attractions, shows, and entertainment to keep guests coming back and to keep the Show fresh.

WDW maintained that throughout the 90's but somewhere along the way between Pressler, Eisner, and WDI infighting, Disneyland lost it. The prevailing attitude was that since WDW had all the high-spending foreign guests, had all the hotels, had all the Parks, truly had the 'captive audience', WDW is what justified the investment on big new E-Tickets and massive spending. In fact, for many years, WDW got all the new stuff and bore all the R&D expense. That made the cost to install the same attraction at Disneyland significantly cheaper and was the only way we got anything for a while there. ToT is an obvious example, but so also is the MSEP (after Farewell Season it went to FL, FL paid to essentially rebuild it, then it came back here a few years later for DCA). Only as a result of Ouimet pushing back against Rasulo and Roy embarrassing Eisner did things start to change.

The pendulum has finally swung the other way now where current management realizes the old 'fixed costs' way of doing things. Spending a higher consistent amount on maintenance and upkeep really does pay off in the long run. They should have learned that lesson in Paris, but apparently not. And, gosh, wasn't it some guy named Walt Disney who stressed all this in the 1st place??

 

[LongtimeReader]

Yes, but like I keep saying, don't be too harsh on MK. We have only been getting our TLC since the 50th, and only b/c of Ouimett and Roy. Look at what we had to endure before we got that! Pressler, Harriss, and Irby nearly ran our Park into the ground.

Haha, I'm not saying MK needs to sink lower, I'm just saying that these things seem to come in cycles. In the 90's, it was Florida that could do no wrong and everyone here was saying, "If we only had a Facilities budget like MK" or "If only we had a cycle program like Florida". You guys were the envy of WDPR in terms of high quality & maintenance, and we looked like a sad little ugly stepchild.

So patience my Florida brethern! If your HM refurb is any indication, it seems like WDI is finding itself again, starting to win some battles, and good things are on the way for both coasts! I'm more optimistic about the U.S. parks than I have been in a really long time. I'm amazed at the amount of money that is about to be spent for both.

Thank you for that. I agree 100% and it's sort of funny how quickly people forget the very recent past. Up until about 2003 there was a very different song being sung. And that was a mere 4 years ago! It won't be long before everyone is barking about something else as though the world is about to collapse. :ROFLOL: Things ARE looking up.

 

[TP2000]

Not to mention, I've always thought Disneyland can afford more often refurbs because they're only two parks, three hotels, and a Downtown area, while Disney World is four parks, (all larger than Disneyland) dozens and dozens of hotels, two waterparks, and a downtown area. So if Disney World and Disneyland both made $1 million each, Disney World would have to spread it around much more than Disneyland would and so certain refurbs have to wait. That's my theory anyway.

But Disneyland has a lot more rides than Magic Kingdom does. And even with just the two parks compared to WDW's four, Anaheim as a whole has almost as many rides as WDW's four parks combined. If DCA actually does embark on an aggressive expansion plan in the next few years, and Disneyland reopens PeopleMover or gets another ride or two, then it's entirely possible that there would be more rides in Anaheim in 2012 than there are in WDW in 2012.

Of course the walkways are SUPERWIDE at Magic Kingdom and the Park is physically BIGGER, but there's not nearly as many attractions as Disneyland.

For simplicity, just compare Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom and you'll discover that Disneyland has about 12 more rides than the Magic Kingdom does. And four of those 12 missing attractions at Magic Kingdom are major E Tickets; Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, Indiana Jones Adventure, Matterhorn Bobsleds, and Star Tours.

You would think that with fewer rides, and especially fewer E Tickets, there would be more resources and energy and capital to be devoted to refurbishment and upkeep at WDW. After all, WDW has all of those big-spending foreigners dropping tons of cash all over the place out there. So what is WDW management spending the profits on if not refurbishments for parks that have fewer attractions than Anaheim does?

 

[marni1971]

Why does a ride have to be shut down to do preventative maintenance? I know the ride mechanics may require time to take apart and reassemble. But when you are talking about showpieces, can't the majority of them be removed or fixed overnight. Disney must have a preventative maintenance schedule on each and every ride. Does anyone know what type of schedule is in place?

The 3rd shift has been cut in all areas over the past decade; this is still an uphill struggle it seems. Someone needs to remind management once you have these brand new toys you need to keep them looked after properly.

 

[erasure fan1]

If WDW doesn't embark on a similarly aggressive refurbishment schedule in addition to improved daily maintenance, all the big-buck and multi-month refurbishments in the world won't mean much a year from now. You have to keep it fresh, keep it clean, keep it maintained, or it just slips back into its neglected and sad state again. :wave:

Thats how I feel too. I love what they are doing with all the refreshing going on. If they dont change the way they take care of the attractions they are just going to fall back into disarray. Keeping the attractions up to par is a must and I hope all the money and work they are doing isnt wasted in a few years because they havent done proper maintnance. I love what they did to pirates and the HM stuff sounds awesome. I just hope the culture about maintaining attractions at WDW is changing too.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

But Disneyland has a lot more rides than Magic Kingdom does. And even with just the two parks compared to WDW's four, Anaheim as a whole has almost as many rides as WDW's four parks combined. If DCA actually does embark on an aggressive expansion plan in the next few years, and Disneyland reopens PeopleMover or gets another ride or two, then it's entirely possible that there would be more rides in Anaheim in 2012 than there are in WDW in 2012.

Of course the walkways are SUPERWIDE at Magic Kingdom and the Park is physically BIGGER, but there's not nearly as many attractions as Disneyland.

For simplicity, just compare Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom and you'll discover that Disneyland has about 12 more rides than the Magic Kingdom does. And four of those 12 missing attractions at Magic Kingdom are major E Tickets; Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, Indiana Jones Adventure, Matterhorn Bobsleds, and Star Tours.

You would think that with fewer rides, and especially fewer E Tickets, there would be more resources and energy and capital to be devoted to refurbishment and upkeep at WDW. After all, WDW has all of those big-spending foreigners dropping tons of cash all over the place out there. So what is WDW management spending the profits on if not refurbishments for parks that have fewer attractions than Anaheim does?

I noticed that myself. At least with Magic Kingdom. I did notice in maps that Disneyland seemed to have more attractions than the Magic Kingdom. I didn't know that it and DCA combined has almost the same amount of attractions as all of WDW's parks combined. Very interesting. Although, does Star Tours count as a "missing" attraction? Magic Kingdom doesn't have it, but it IS in Disney World. Also, I think being physically bigger than Disneyland lends to the fact that they have more cast members to pay for, and more places to clean up and more places to give new codes of paint. I don't know how Disneyland's maintenance staff works, but the fact that since WDW did cutback on maintenance, it does mean that it'll take longer for them to get to refurbs.
and what are they spending the money on instead? FIBER OPTIC ADD-ONS TO THE CASTLE!! XD

 

[CSUFSteve]

Although, does Star Tours count as a "missing" attraction? Magic Kingdom doesn't have it, but it IS in Disney World.

I'd agree with this; I'd only count something 'missing' if it isn't not anywhere at WDW. And I would argue, yes even as a Disneyland-native, then when you really break it all down, we don't have that much more than Magic Kingdom. Yeah, if you compare guidemap to guidemap, we have around 67 attractions or so. But among those are things like the Sailing Ship Columbia, an extra Disneyland Railroad stop, Big Thunder Ranch, etc. The big ones that MK does not have are the obvious ones: Storybookland, Casey Jr, Pinocchio, Alice, Matterhorn (Everest and Matterhorn are at most DISTANT cousins), Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin, and Indy. But MK has some we don't too: PhilharMagic, SGE, Carousel of Progress, PeopleMover, Bear Band.

So, to me, the attractions argument isn't particularly compelling. What's more interesting to me is to look at things in terms of acreage. People are fond of citing how much 'bigger' MK is than Disneyland. In terms of sheer acreage, that's true. But if you look at *guest acreage*, MK is not really all that much bigger than Disneyland - about 10 acres I believe. Guest acreage is defined as the space that guests can actually occupy in the Park. For example, AK is huge, but its total guest area is actually pretty small.

If MK wanted to expand, obviously that is FAR easier than to attempt it at Disneyland. But as far as current acreage, I'd guess that most of that is taken up by the wider walkways and the more freewheeling use of acres for landscaping. Your Central Plaza is gigantic! Look at all the space between the actual Land entrances vs the Hub itself. We just do not have that kind of space at Disneyland and so, yes, our Park is smaller. We have to be more efficient with space unfortunately.

Also, I think being physically bigger than Disneyland lends to the fact that they have more cast members to pay for, and more places to clean up and more places to give new codes of paint. I don't know how Disneyland's maintenance staff works, but the fact that since WDW did cutback on maintenance, it does mean that it'll take longer for them to get to refurbs.

Yeah, this looks like it's starting to change out in FL though. You guys are starting to get it again. Disneyland FINALLY once again has a cycle program for trash cans. Pressler cut that about halfway into his reign. FL used to have a zero-downtime program for dark rides where figures and ride vehicles were almost literally rebuilt on a regular schedule. Not sure if they do that still or not. But Disneyland has slowly been starting to add back in the 'fixed costs' that disappeared when T. Irby ruled Facilities. I have no doubt Florida will too.