Which park would Walt be most pleased with?

[The Mom]

Where's the "none" option?

I would have to agree! :lol: I'm not saying that he would or would not like any of them, but we just don't have any way of knowing. None of us knew him well enough to make an educated guess, and going by what he did in the past is not always a true indicator of what he was/would be thinking.

As an example, my husband knows me better than anyone else in the world, lives surrounded by my choices, decisions, etc yet sometimes will give me something he's sure I will like that makes me go :shrug: (But I still thank him profusely) He has unconsciously inserted his OWN opinion as to what I'm thinking. I've done the same with him over the last 30+ years; it's human nature.

But it's fun to wonder "what if?" as long as we all realize that there is no "right" or "wrong" answer and it's all opinion and speculation, so we don't take the discussion seriously enough to argue about it.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

DisneySEA without a doubt.

Second would be DAK.

Agreed. I think for Epcot he would be appalled that the city he was planning on his deathbed would wind up as just a permanent World's Fair. He probably wouldn't be so crazy about a theme park that pretended to be a studio but might be pleased to see a castle park that was built with time and money on Disney's side and not rushed like Disneyland.

 

[Studios Fan]

DAK would probably be his favorite of the stateside parks.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Yes, and I acknowledged that. Re-read my post. Did you not catch the part in parentheses where I stated that you probably referred to it as "Epcot Center" out of habit or loyalty to the old name?. Doesn't change the fact that you referred to it continually in the present tense, which kind of makes it hard to buy your claim that you were referring to the "old" Epcot. Regardless, even the original Epcot did not "embody Walt's ideas" as you've claimed.




I'm not missing the point, and I don't consider SSE's story line a "moot point". You seem to keep ignoring that I'm not bashing Epcot as a theme park. These attractions we've been discussing are all great attractions in my opinion. But none of them are proving grounds for cutting edge technology. That is what Walt's Epcot was intended to be. It was to be an actual city where the very latest in technology would be put into actual use before anywhere (or in some cases, almost anywhere) else. Walt was going to enlist the partnership of various corporations in order to make this happen. It's kind of like the monorail at Disneyland. Keep in mind, this is not a perfect example, because monorails were already in use in Europe, though not widely. Walt saw this as a type of transportation system that would become commonplace in the future, and he put it into actual use at DL. It was this type of practice, as well as observations that many city planners and other experts made about it, that started to get Walt excited about doing it for real. This line of thinking eventually evolved into Epcot. It was to have nothing to do with fantasy trips to Mars and educational trips through geospheres about the history of communication. Nothing in the "real" Epcot was going to be about special effects or fantasy.

Which brings me back to the original point, which is that Epcot, while a great theme park, would probably not be one that Walt would be thrilled with.

First bolded point: I see that in the past EPCOT and the current Epcot. Seeing that I do see these ideals in EPCOT/Epcot/EPCOTCenter, I believe that it embodies the original idea and spirit that Walt wanted for his city.


Second bolded point: Right. That can be proven. However, this isn't the real EPCOT. One could say that this is a representation of the real EPCOT. In that, it becomes a story, and as stories do, it will take the artistic freedom it needs, and add things to allow the story and the message to come across. It wouldn't be a success if it did.

And now, to be brash, and honest- There's no disproving this for me.:wave: I optimistically believe it, I would hope it would hold true if a "What If" statement could be tested. I came to this thread in hopes of putting down these thoughts and discussing them. There is no right or wrong answer....I fail to see the "absolutism" in these posts.

 

[agent86]

One could say that this is a representation of the real EPCOT.

I think a better "representation of the real Epcot" would be if the theme park were a mock city. Things wouldn't have to be real, but if they set it up like you really were in an actual town walking around, using the public transportation and services, etc, then that would be cool. However, I think the typical description of Epcot being "like a world's fair" is the more accurate way of describing it. That wasn't remotely what Walt had in mind.

To reiterate once again, I LOVE Epcot, and am not insulting it in the least when I describe it in this fashion. I'm just saying that to describe it as a park that "embodies the ideas" of Walt's original plan is not accurate.

There is no right or wrong answer....I fail to see the "absolutism" in these posts.

Well keep in mind that this conversation started as a result of you posting that you felt everyone was "ignoring" that Epcot "embodies the ideas" of Walt's Epcot. That sounds to me like you believed it was a "fact" that everyone was just somehow choosing to "ignore". If I misunderstood you, then my apologies.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I think a better "representation of the real Epcot" would be if the theme park were a mock city. Things wouldn't have to be real, but if they set it up like you really were in an actual town walking around, using the public transportation and services, etc, then that would be cool. However, I think the typical description of Epcot being "like a world's fair" is the more accurate way of describing it. That wasn't remotely what Walt had in mind.

To reiterate once again, I LOVE Epcot, and am not insulting it in the least when I describe it in this fashion. I'm just saying that to describe it as a park that "embodies the ideas" of Walt's original plan is not accurate.



Well keep in mind that this conversation started as a result of you posting that you felt everyone was "ignoring" that Epcot "embodies the ideas" of Walt's Epcot. That sounds to me like you believed it was a "fact" that everyone was just somehow choosing to "ignore". If I misunderstood you, then my apologies.

I've often thought of that. It would be interesting to have the Future World side of EPCOT actually be "City Esque".


Or, is it already? Is CommuniCore/Innoventions, already the "meeting place of the future" Is Test Track already the "Industrial Park" that Walt planned for? (In that same vein, so was Transcenter) Greenhouses already exist in The Land.

Maybe the City already exists, just not in this archetype that we want to perceive it as.

All philosophy.
~~~~~~~~~~~

No, I was just wondering if people saw it at all.:lol: No need to apologize.

 

[agent86]

Maybe the City already exists, just not in this archetype that we want to perceive it as.

Perhaps.

I think if Disney ever wanted to replicate another Epcot (which I suppose is pretty unlikely) it would be awesome if they would really lay it out like it was an actual city, where each of the "attractions" had some sense of connection to each other. As it is now, it doesn't feel like a city at all because each individual pavilion is radically different from one another.

One thing that I have always thought was glaringly absent from Epcot was a people mover taking you from pavilion to pavilion, restaurant to restaurant, and so on. Walt always had a fascination with different modes of transportation so it just seemed like something the park should have had.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

WDW ended up building EPCOT Center.

The name is important, and the reason why us old farts insist on capitalizing it and witing it out in full, instead of spelling it simply as Epcot.

Because only the 'Center' of the planned city was build: EPCOT Center. WDW never pretended to have build anything remotely like the planned city, merely the center of it. 'Center', here understood as, firstly, the central meeting place. And secondly, more metaphorically: the place where the central ideas of, or behind, EPCOT, could be turned into reality.

Building the center is also the reason why EPCOT is located where it is. Right in the centre of WDW. Near the fountain, you can find the logo that locates the very geographical center of the entire Florida property.

One thing that I have always thought was glaringly absent from Epcot was a people mover taking you from pavilion to pavilion, restaurant to restaurant, and so on. Walt always had a fascination with different modes of transportation so it just seemed like something the park should have had.

The original plans for World Showcase (the one near the Transportation and Ticket Centre, not the one in EPCOT) included a people mover indeed.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

WDW ended up building EPCOT Center.

The name is important, and the reason why us old farts insist on capitalizing it and witing it out in full, instead of spelling it simply as Epcot.

Because only the 'Center' of the planned city was build: EPCOT Center. WDW never pretended to have build anything remotely like the planned city, merely the center of it. 'Center', here understood as, firstly, the central meeting place. And secondly, more metaphorically: the place where the central ideas of, or behind, EPCOT, could be turned into reality.

That's a good point, although I have a little bit of a problem with the logic behind that, if you take it to its logical conclusion.

If the theme park is (was?) the center of EPCOT, then the natural conclusion is that EPCOT is actually all of WDW. That thinking strikes me as a little glib, presumptuous, and frankly lazy.

Disney PR machine circa 1981, as I imagine it: "What do you mean, we still have a whole city of tomorrow to build ? Look around, man...everything you see is EPCOT! This is exactly what Walt had in mind! A theme park, a shopping district, a shiny monorail, a nifty garbage evac system, and some cool hotels to house all of the people who "live" here. All we gotta do is build a sciencey, culturey park at the middle of it and we're done, baby!"

(It's quite possible I'm reading too much into the intent behind the park's original name.) :lookaroun

 

[The Empress Lilly]

If the theme park is (was?) the center of EPCOT, then the natural conclusion is that EPCOT is actually all of WDW. That thinking strikes me as a little glib, presumptuous, and frankly lazy.

Disney PR machine circa 1981, as I imagine it: "What do you mean, we still have a whole city of tomorrow to build ? Look around, man...everything you see is EPCOT! This is exactly what Walt had in mind! A theme park, a shopping district, a shiny monorail, a nifty garbage evac system, and some cool hotels to house all of the people who "live" here. All we gotta do is build a sciencey, culturey park at the middle of it and we're done, baby!"

That's quite possible. I've heard the 'whole of WDW' been described as a 'city', that is, some sort of experimental community. A comparison which I do not find very apt.
The Disney pr machine may have used this comparison too. I don't know.

Depending on how one looks at it, the addition of 'center' can either be an exercise in humility and honesty, or a grotesque PR stunt.
Possibly, it is both.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Perhaps.

I think if Disney ever wanted to replicate another Epcot (which I suppose is pretty unlikely) it would be awesome if they would really lay it out like it was an actual city, where each of the "attractions" had some sense of connection to each other. As it is now, it doesn't feel like a city at all because each individual pavilion is radically different from one another.

One thing that I have always thought was glaringly absent from Epcot was a people mover taking you from pavilion to pavilion, restaurant to restaurant, and so on. Walt always had a fascination with different modes of transportation so it just seemed like something the park should have had.

Right. The connection IS there, now, but it's hard to come by. In years past, when everything was a bit more concurrent, it was VERY apparent.


Having a TTA in EPCOT has always been a part of the plans. For WS...For Future World...For Communicore...it just never gets built. At least we have the Monorail running through.

WDW ended up building EPCOT Center.

The name is important, and the reason why us old farts insist on capitalizing it and witing it out in full, instead of spelling it simply as Epcot.

Because only the 'Center' of the planned city was build: EPCOT Center. WDW never pretended to have build anything remotely like the planned city, merely the center of it. 'Center', here understood as, firstly, the central meeting place. And secondly, more metaphorically: the place where the central ideas of, or behind, EPCOT, could be turned into reality.

Building the center is also the reason why EPCOT is located where it is. Right in the centre of WDW. Near the fountain, you can find the logo that locates the very geographical center of the entire Florida property.

The original plans for World Showcase (the one near the Transportation and Ticket Centre, not the one in EPCOT) included a people mover indeed.

I'm no old fart...:lookaroun:lol:


And the center of EPCOT Center USED to be there. They have sold off land in recent years. The new center is somewhere in front of The Land.

Kinda sad, huh?

But yes, great post, as usual.

That's a good point, although I have a little bit of a problem with the logic behind that, if you take it to its logical conclusion.

If the theme park is (was?) the center of EPCOT, then the natural conclusion is that EPCOT is actually all of WDW. That thinking strikes me as a little glib, presumptuous, and frankly lazy.

Disney PR machine circa 1981, as I imagine it: "What do you mean, we still have a whole city of tomorrow to build ? Look around, man...everything you see is EPCOT! This is exactly what Walt had in mind! A theme park, a shopping district, a shiny monorail, a nifty garbage evac system, and some cool hotels to house all of the people who "live" here. All we gotta do is build a sciencey, culturey park at the middle of it and we're done, baby!"

(It's quite possible I'm reading too much into the intent behind the park's original name.) :lookaroun

:fork::ROFLOL:

I see it EXACTLY like that!:lol: The name was well deserved, IMHO...It just needed a synthesis and a further embodiment of Walt's ideas in the EPCOT Park.


They build Walt Disney World, which slowly became the EPCOT the dreamed of. Then they built a Center to it all.

 

[agent86]

Having a TTA in EPCOT has always been a part of the plans. For WS...For Future World...For Communicore...it just never gets built. At least we have the Monorail running through.

Having the monorail go through the park makes for a cool visual, so objections to it being there. But having a PeopleMover (TTA) would be cool because it would also be a very functional "attraction". It would be great to be able to visit an attraction, then hop on the PeopleMover to go to a restaurant on the other side of the park, then hop on again to go to a particular shop. Of course, we'd probably all end up like the people at the end of Wall-E. :lol:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Having the monorail go through the park makes for a cool visual, so objections to it being there. But having a PeopleMover (TTA) would be cool because it would also be a very functional "attraction". It would be great to be able to visit an attraction, then hop on the PeopleMover to go to a restaurant on the other side of the park, then hop on again to go to a particular shop. Of course, we'd probably all end up like the people at the end of Wall-E. :lol:

Of course. And it would solidify the "working city" theme, too.


Mobility wouldn't only be a theme of a pavilion, it would be a all encompassing part of your day.

In the same vein, water features could harken to the Seas, Solar Pannels would be your Energy...It all works.

 

[keylimesqueeze]

Most definitly...AK :wave:

 

[Computer Magic]

Most definitly...AK :wave:

This is why I wonder why so many would skip the park. It really is a masterpiece and under rated. It is more then a theme park. Calling AK a local zoo is like calling MK a local fair.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

This is why I wonder why so many would skip the park. It really is a masterpiece and under rated. It is more then a theme park. Calling AK a local zoo is like calling MK a local fair.

:lol:


I think that one group is saying one thing and the other group is going after the other.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

Animal Kingdom is Nahtazu.



:lol::lookaroun

Please tell me someone remembers that! has not been used lately.

 

[Computer Magic]

Animal Kingdom is Nahtazu.



:lol::lookaroun

Please tell me someone remembers that! has not been used lately.

I remember it and almost used it in the other thread...:ROFLOL::sohappy:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Animal Kingdom is Nahtazu.



:lol::lookaroun

Please tell me someone remembers that! has not been used lately.

YES!:lol:


It's a running joke in our family.