When is it "too friendly"? Ladies, what do you say?

[I_heart_Tigger]

As some of you know I used to work at the World Showcase and I lived in Vista Lay...errr...Vista Way. The Moroccan men did have a reputation for their pushier attempts at women, about on par with the Italian Men. Every country represented had their stereotypes - Canadian women were all big drinkers and Canadian men were known for being...well...straight. As soon as a Canadian man arrived women would throw themselves at him, even at the gay ones (if they only knew)

You have to remember that all of us are away from home, many for the first time. You are thrown into a living situation with hundreds of other 20 something attractive people also away from home and frankly, a lot of crap goes on that probably wouldn't at home. Think of the biggest party University you know and double the trouble and you've got Disney.

That, of course is no excuse to act like a pervert which is what many of the Moroccan men did. Yes, I've been to Morocco, too and while I was in the country I got along with most of the men there fine. While at Disney, I would never allow myself or any of my girlfriends to be alone in the room with a Moroccan man. They leer, say disgusting things, try to rub your back, hair or thighs, physically try to pull you away to a more secluded area.

Moroccan men were not invited, nor welcome at any party we had - and we had some doozies with the Norwegians, Japanese, Germans and Brits usually.

In Morocco I would say I came in contact with 500 men and I had three experiences where a man made sexual comments that made me uncomfortable. At Disney I came into contact with maybe 100 different Moroccan men and I would say at least 80-85 of them behaved in a way that made me uncomfortable or downright disgusted. An 85% rate of perversion and sexual assault isn't very good in my books.

Those are my personal experiences and while I'm sure many people can tell me about their one Moroccan friend who is a cool guy, that's great but it doesn't change my view of the men that work at the Pavilion.

btw - report anything to Disney but know that they have very little say in who gets hired for the pavilion. They do, however have plenty of say for who gets fired.

EDIT: btw - I may just be used to good old fashioned Canadian boys. It's not uncommon for them to ask if it's ok to hold your hand or give you a kiss. My current BF (of 16 years and counting) is about the pushiest guy I dated. He actually had the nerve to walk right up to me, tell me I looked fantastic and ask if it would be ok if he called me. Wow...talk about rude

 

[Hot Lava]

I think the poor guy really has no idea how creepy it comes out.

He knows EXACTLY what he is doing.

I've also heard (but can't confirm) that because the Moroccan pavilion is owned by the Moroccan government, the employees there go through a separate hiring process. Not sure about this though as I've never asked one.

I wondered about this sort of thing. On the other hand, if something was to happen to a guest in relation to one of these CMs, it is WDW that has the liability. If I were Disney's lawyer, I would be all over this. It has potential disaster for WDW written all over it

 

[Darth Tater]

At Disney I came into contact with maybe 100 different Moroccan men and I would say at least 80-85 of them behaved in a way that made me uncomfortable or downright disgusted.

And this is the part that I don't get, and quite frankly, makes me just as angry at Disney mgmt. as it does at the offenders. At the company I work for, if I said, touched, or did anything toward a female guest or fellow employee that was considered crossing the line...I'd be out of here quicker than you can blink. One and done, welcome to the unemployed life Mr. Tater. I'm sure *most* other companies have the same policy.

Could you imagine if your local Wal-Mart had a reputation for the door greeters habitually creeping out women and making inappropriate advances? Yet years later...the same well-known problem still persists? How would this make mgmt. of that particular store look? Of course there are going to be occasional instances with situations like this, because obviously, there are creeps out there, and it's impossible for mgmt. to control employees' actions 24/7. But in most cases those in charge take prompt action to halt the problem.

This isn't about ethnicity or what country these men are from, it's about a level or harassment that has gone on at a public place to the point that it's now "infamous", yet still continues. To me, this makes it clear that those in charge are just as guilty.

 

[AndyS2992]

Question being, has anyone actually reported this to Disney? If not then I'll shoot them an email/phone call in a moment as I find this situation rather concerning. If it was a one off then I could maybe let it go but because so many different people, guests and CMs have had bad experiences then I feel if enough people complain then they might actually train these people to lay off of the creepy business or get fired.

==
In my amusing attempt to find a website where Moroccan men discuss tips on picking up women in different countries for Citizenship scams, I did find this, a discussion on women travelling alone in Morocco.

http://www.wordtravels.com/forum/discussion/779/x

These quotes sums the Epcot CMs quite well:

'Young men in Morocco tend to try it on (hit on) every female that comes across them regardless of origin or dress. There are those who are after money and those after what's called papers - a visa, or just a bit of "fun". These can be dealt with in more or less the same manner. If approached by anyone be firm (with a small smile) and say no, thank you and keep walking.'

'There were always a lot of people in the streets beyond the souks and while I did have men follow me and want to talk with me and give me their phone numbers I never felt unsafe. Uncomfortable yes, unsafe no.'

So it seems it is a cultural thing, although one that is totally unacceptable at Walt Disney World and must end.

 

[LoveMyMoroccan]

My husband contacted his friend who works management there. He wants the thread forwarded to him and he is asking for the name of the cashier if known. Like I said, this behavior is unacceptable, and everyone, including other Moroccan men, know it.

 

[I_heart_Tigger]

Question being, has anyone actually reported this to Disney? If not then I'll shoot them an email/phone call in a moment as I find this situation rather concerning. If it was a one off then I could maybe let it go but because so many different people, guests and CMs have had bad experiences then I feel if enough people complain then they might actually train these people to lay off of the creepy business or get fired.

When I worked there two men were terminated from the Moroccan pavilion but it was never reported exactly why. I would assume I know but that's just an assumption. Another two men were publically removed from the pavilion when a manager caught them trying to "Make a date' with a guest. They were terminated shortly afterwards. I knew of one guy banished from the service line at the café to the kitchen where he had no contact with guests because he had two strikes against him for comments to women. From my understanding it wasn't outwardly sexual but more of what some people describe here of - "What are you doing later? We should get together. Here's my number" etc etc.

So in my time there (late 90's) management seemed to be doing something about it. I can't say for now,

I encourage people who have been were made to feel uncomfortable or downright disgusted by any CM to report it. I wouldn't bother reporting something as something you read on a message board that happened to someone else. I can't see it being taken very seriously. In this case I would just recommend you be vigilant while in the parks and don't hesitate to report your personal experience.

 

[Monkee Girl]

I didn't report my cases because it was just out of no where. I felt more uncomfortable because guys don't usually talk to me like that. especially strangers...and especially people 'on the job'. The second time around I thought: 'really? another one? is this a pattern?' However, I didn't feel a need to report it. I mean, what was I going to say? "Manager! This guy gave me a free Moroccan Mint Tea! I feel harrassed!" lol They weren't overly pushy (not like described in the original post) and I figured i wouldn't see them again. I also wouldn't report them now because it happened to me 3 years ago for the one incident and 4 months ago for the last incident. With no names, times, facts at all, it would be pointless.

However, I will not stop going to my favorite lunch pavilion. I like talking to the Showcase members...I just wish the guys wouldn't act so creepy. That SNL video was dead on. I know it's a joke, but it's all about how you present yourself. It's what makes a difference between the creeper and the confident hot guy. If it were to happen to me again, I may think about notifying a cast member about it. People are right. If this were to happen anywhere else in the country, people wouldn't think twice about reporting such an incident. I think because they are happening at Disney, and people (such as myself) want to give the foreign students the benefit of the doubt, we give them more leeway then they probably deserve.

 

[itsbetsyh]

NEVER had this happen. you need to report that guy!

 

[Samir]

Hello I really feel bad to hear that. First, our culture and also religion forbidden that. And just to let you know: Moroccan's (wish most of them are Muslims) they can't have sex nor a girlfriend, I’m not going to talk about it much but if any questions I'll be happy to answer. Second all those guys are in the age. Like everybody know 18 years to 26 you can't control theme and most time they don't follow either religion or a culture. Also we have to learn that a person is a person is not a country or a religion. I hear every day people killing others like the one killed people at that school and ...... but I will never say that American are bad cause I have the most beautiful women we are married for almost 2 years now. I love her and my family love her too. Please when a person do something blame him nor where he is coming from please that's the right thing to do. And I promise I'll report that myself to the Moroccan pavilion. Best regards from a Good Moroccan lol . I’m sorry my English is not that good but there is Some Moroccans they speak perfect English lol (just for fun thanks)

 

[StarWarsGirl]

I’m sorry my English is not that good but there is Some Moroccans they speak perfect English lol (just for fun thanks)

It's fine. English isn't an easy language.

 

[ToyStoryMiss]

All I have to say on this is,
Jeepers creepers...where'd ya get those peepers, Jeepers creepers..TURN HIM IN.

 

[wedway71]

Regardless of where this guy comes from, it was a HUGE no-no for how he acted-PERIOD. This went far beyond a cute little flirtation and I would notify Disney and let them know. Keep in mind, if he acted like this with you guys, he is doing this with others.. There is no need to keep this Putz on the payroll and by doing so, gives Disney a bad image.

 

[NiarrNDisney]

^This is what disturbs me the most about this story...it seems to be a repeating occurrence overlooked by mgmt. rather than a rare incident.

Yeah to make things worse 1 of the incidents went as far as my friend being cornered in one of the stores towards the back where they sell clothes by a male CM and was asked for her number and other info. She told the man she was married (which she is) and then had to push him off of her so she could leave, then she tried to report it to another CM but found no help in Morocco. So she found me and I immediately reported to another CM that I found in France who directed me to the International Gateway entrance where we reported it again. I don't know where it went from here because by this time it was closing and my friend refused to point out the CM since she was upset.
Something needs to be done! It has got to the point with my group that we no longer really tour the pavilion unless we are getting a drink or food and even then the girls tend to move ahead and send the guys to pick it up.

 

[wedway71]

I do not work for Disney, but I have been in leadership for 25 years including HR Director for a national retailer. Now, Disney can't weed out all of the bad apples BUT can create a culture that starts from the interview process that discusses certain behaviors won't be tolerated.

One would think that people would know this is not allowed so maybe Disney needs to rethink the way they onboard international candidates by using examples of how not to act with female or even male guests. Be specific, roll play, or whatever they have to do to let it be known that if you hit on a guest you are gone.

 

[Hot Lava]

My DD in 7th grade Spanish had a teacher stand beside her at her desk and he ran his fingers through her hair and caressed the side of her face. She told him to stop it and he did. Came home, blurted and to school I went to talk to Principal the next morning. He called the teacher to his office right in the middle of his class. The creep told me that is normal in HIS country where he was from. (Dominica) He admitted it. The principal and school counselor were both taking notes at that time. The Principal leaped out of his chair appalled that his teacher was justifying caressing my 11 year old daughter and told him to not in this country and he didn't care to discuss his homeland. I was excused the teacher stayed with the Principal. Ultimately the Teacher stayed with notation in his file but it wasn't considered assault. He remained my DDs Spanish teacher the rest of the year as the district only had one. He remains in that school. Ewe.

I am so sorry for your DD.

If me, it would have resulted in lawsuits, police reports, and calls to local news stations. My guess is that this guy has done this before and will do it again. And creeps will always try to use some excuse to justify their behavior. They will do whatever they can get away with. I think somehow parents should be warned about him.

 

[Todd L]

BTW, for whatever its worth..

I work at a MAJOR company. One that most of the americans in here do business with on a daily basis.

I have a co-worker whos been in this company for over 30 years and Has been brought up on sexual harrasment charges 8 or 9 times in the last 6 years and god knows how many times before that.

We work in the I.t. department that covers mostly female employees .

He touches them while doing work . Rubs their necks, shoulders, and arms.. calls them "sweet heart" "Honey" and has even got caught ease dropping on womens conversations....

Its gotten so bad that the head of some of these departments call our supervisor and tell her to send anyone but him.

My supervisor even had to tell him to stop staring at her breast...THE BOSS is feeling creeped out by this guy!!


Hes even had husbands contact him to tell him to knock it off..including a Cop!!

He has NEVER been reprimanded for any of this stuff and the day is coming that one of these women are gonna have themselfs a HUGE lawsuit against this company for their complete and utter failure to take any action against this clown for his behavior.

Its a sad statement that in 2013 with all the time and money spent trying to avoid these situations that some people still dont get it and never will.

Id testify on anyones behalf in a heartbeat...This guys got it coming in a big way.

 

[ShookieJones]

BTW, for whatever its worth..

I work at a MAJOR company. One that most of the americans in here do business with on a daily basis.

I have a co-worker whos been in this company for over 30 years and Has been brought up on sexual harrasment charges 8 or 9 times in the last 6 years and god knows how many times before that.

We work in the I.t. department that covers mostly female employees .

He touches them while doing work . Rubs their necks, shoulders, and arms.. calls them "sweet heart" "Honey" and has even got caught ease dropping on womens conversations....

Its gotten so bad that the head of some of these departments call our supervisor and tell her to send anyone but him.

My supervisor even had to tell him to stop staring at her breast...THE BOSS is feeling creeped out by this guy!!


Hes even had husbands contact him to tell him to knock it off..including a Cop!!

He has NEVER been reprimanded for any of this stuff and the day is coming that one of these women are gonna have themselfs a HUGE lawsuit against this company for their complete and utter failure to take any action against this clown for his behavior.

Its a sad statement that in 2013 with all the time and money spent trying to advert these situations that some people still dont get it and never will.

Id testify on anyones behalf in a heartbeat...This guys got it coming in a big way.

How does this even happen in this day and age at a major corporation. I can understand a mom and pop shop, but in this litigious society you'd think there would be steps that Human Resources would take to cover the companies butt and get this guy out on the pavement ASAP.

 

[Todd L]

How does this even happen in this day and age at a major corporation. I can understand a mom and pop shop, but in this litigious society you'd think there would be steps that Human Resources would take to cover the companies butt and get this guy out on the pavement ASAP.

Im with you man!! I cant get over the fact that this guy has gotten away with this for YEARS!! I cant imagine what they think the outcome will be...maybe, if they ignore it, It will go away??

Horrible!!

 

[Mrs Potts]

I'll tell you the same thing I tell my daughter - go with your gut, and if it's telling you this guy was "off" then you need to report him. Sure it might be just a "cultural difference" but then he needs to be given a refresher on what is and is not culturally appropriate while working.

Creepy!

 

[SPMTCP2003]

I can say as an Epcot CM who has shared the CP bus with many an international cast member - the Morocco pavilion is infamous for this. The gossip is that many Moroccans are desperate for US citizenship and see such behavior as a means of obtaining it. Perhaps stereotypical but it seems possible as I've heard about this many times. I've also heard (but can't confirm) that because the Moroccan pavilion is owned by the Moroccan government, the employees there go through a separate hiring process. Not sure about this though as I've never asked one.

To clarify, the Morocco pavilion is not owned by the Moroccan government, but King Hassan II did help fund it and sent his own designers to help WDI create and construct the pavilion. The Cast Members that work in Morocco (and every other pavilion for that matter) are very much Disney employees and are on a one-year work visa from their respective countries.

Each Disney CM goes through a rigorous class on Disney's standards and knows very well what is acceptable when on stage. This sort of behavior is far from acceptable (even if it were light-hearted) and should ALWAYS be reported to Guest Services. A first name from their nametag and where they were working is all you need! Whether or not it is a big deal will be for Disney management to determine, and should not be for you to have to worry about.

@aristo_cat, I hope the "magic" still continues to outweigh the nonsense like this for you!