When is enough enough?

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

There isn't a lottery big enough in this country to allow you to even come close to replicating the World Showcase. The largest Jackpot was approximately $645 million dollars. Taken in a lump sum that is reduced to about $375 million dollars. Pay the government their tax of 39.6% or approx. $150 million and you're left with $225 million dollars. Enough to thoroughly enjoy the World Showcase as it is today, but certainly not enough to build your own with out major partners or financing. I'm not surprised no one has ever considered it.

I know, but that would be awesome of someone made some Epcot on steroids. There's a reasons more permanent expos arrant built and a reason Epcot has authentic looking country pavilions. All long lasting expos go under, take Future World as an example. Epcot would have been long gone if it weren't for the World Showcase.

 

[Dwarful]

We are going in Feb. with a school band trip. But after that I think we are going to be taking at least a 3 yr break. For us its a lot of little things that are adding up to bigger things. Cost vs. personal value are no longer swayed in Disney's favor for our family.

 

[bethymouse]

We went to Myrtle Beach this year instead. DH was happy, but not me. Hopefully we will go in 2015! I can accept change, but oh so many changes at once- phew!

 

[Dads 2 Boys]

I was reading these forums before my last trip and it was making me nervous. Did things go downhill at WDW? Was everything that people on these board were saying true? Were my kids going to even enjoy themselves?

Every complaint on this board should be taken with a grain of salt. We had a wonderful trip. Everything was as good as it always has been. I wish certain things were still open that were many years ago. *cough* penny arcade *cough* But it's still a magical place. I'd love it if several hundred thousand decided that it was no longer worth it to go. Maybe then the crowds would become more reasonable.

New fantasy land is a wonderful area. The detail is amazing. I love the tangled bathroom area, they did an amazing job with it. It's my favorite place to sit down and watch people and relax.

I believe that some people think that WDW owes them something, have unrealistically high expectations, and nothing is ever good enough.

Wish there was a love button!

 

[copcarguyp71]

I was reading these forums before my last trip and it was making me nervous. Did things go downhill at WDW? Was everything that people on these board were saying true? Were my kids going to even enjoy themselves?

Every complaint on this board should be taken with a grain of salt. We had a wonderful trip. Everything was as good as it always has been. I wish certain things were still open that were many years ago. *cough* penny arcade *cough* But it's still a magical place. I'd love it if several hundred thousand decided that it was no longer worth it to go. Maybe then the crowds would become more reasonable.

New fantasy land is a wonderful area. The detail is amazing. I love the tangled bathroom area, they did an amazing job with it. It's my favorite place to sit down and watch people and relax.

I believe that some people think that WDW owes them something, have unrealistically high expectations, and nothing is ever good enough.

Hey...isn't it great that this forum is a place where we can all express our opinions without having stones cast at us...or not.

 

[BrerJon]

If I win the lottery I will build an expo just like Epcot, I will hire off kilter, World Showcase players, anyone else who left and adopt Maelstrom. Of course everything has to be named different for copyright reasons but it will be like the 80's all over again. I'm surprised no one has ever done that yet.

I'm already gonna start lining up for Not Horizons.

 

[BrerJon]

We've done both twice. If you can afford, seriously, do it. You'll find that it may be slightly pricey, the price will match the product.

Not really appropriate for this particular case, but one thing I wish more people would do when considering alternative Disney options is price up Tokyo Disney as a choice. Lots of people seem to dismiss it as something they could never afford, without actually investigating. For a couple without kids who flies from the west coast to Orlando and stays in Deluxe resorts, the price difference between going to Tokyo instead for a week is small.

You pay about $500 more per person for the flight to Japan, but you get that back from the difference in hotel and ticket costs (TDL hotels are cheaper than WDW Deluxes, and their park tickets are a lot cheaper). Obviously for families with kids, people who stay off-property or in Values that calculation doesn't work as well, but there's still a big chunk of WDW visitors who could give Tokyo a spin one year without spending much more than they normally do, but who never even consider it.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I believe that some people think that WDW owes them something, have unrealistically high expectations, and nothing is ever good enough.

Let me stop you there for several reasons-

1- WDW does indeed owe people something. It's asinine for any paying customer to think they aren't owed something by giving a corporation their money. We don't approach buying any other product with this absurd attitude. You pay a premium price to enter the parks and to stay at their hotels, eat the food, etc etc. You should have expectations about what you're paying for. It is not only the right of people to evaluate whether the product is worth the cost, it is the responsible thing to do.

2- People have high expectations because those are the standards Disney set for themselves prior to two decades ago. We didn't set the standard, Walt Disney and his old guard of quality oriented executives did (again they maintained these standards up until the mid 90's despite Walt himself having long since passed). We are simply holding them to their own standards, the core philosophies of the company. It is not some unattainable goal set by unrealistic expectations. We know the amazing things they were capable of, even back when they were an infinitely less powerful and less wealthy company, they have proven themselves entirely capable of meeting and even exceeded our expectations in the past.

 

[danpam1024]

Let me stop you there for several reasons-

1- WDW does indeed owe people something. It's asinine for any paying customer to think they aren't owed something by giving a corporation their money. We don't approach buying any other product with this absurd attitude. You pay a premium price to enter the parks and to stay at their hotels, eat the food, etc etc. You should have expectations about what you're paying for. It is not only the right of people to evaluate whether the product is worth the cost, it is the responsible thing to do.

2- People have high expectations because those are the standards Disney set for themselves prior to two decades ago. We didn't set the standard, Walt Disney and his old guard of quality oriented executives did (again they maintained these standards up until the mid 90's despite Walt himself having long since passed). We are simply holding them to their own standards, the core philosophies of the company. It is not some unattainable goal set by unrealistic expectations. We know the amazing things they were capable of, even back when they were an infinitely less powerful and less wealthy company, they have proven themselves entirely capable of meeting and even exceeded our expectations in the past.

THIS!!!100x over. I guess some people have never experienced WDW during its true glory years. Change is good, but Disney is a nostalgic place and there has got to be a way to maintain balance in the parks (mainly MK). I'm glad we got to go when customer service and family experience was the #1 priority. I cannot fathom planning so many details of a vacation. Take away the spontaneity and you take away the fun of being on vacation (IMO of course). The cost of the hotels are COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS! Location is a benefit, but the hotels are not worth what they charge-period. The food is mediocre at best. But I do have faith that it will be better one day......

 

[BrerJon]

Let me stop you there for several reasons-

1- WDW does indeed owe people something. It's asinine for any paying customer to think they aren't owed something by giving a corporation their money.

I think it's crazy to say we should be OK with the product being inferior as long as the shareholders are happy - what other company gets this luxury? If I take a flight and get poor service, I don't say 'well I'm fine with that because the cuts that made my flight poor increased the money for shareholders', I say 'not flying them again!', I couldn't give a stuff about the shareholders.

You can cut and slice and increase profits all you like, but in the long run doing so is *decreasing* value to shareholders (as people stop going or cut their trips), so if Disney aren't careful in the long run they'll annoy guests *and* shareholders.

 

[flynnibus]

1- WDW does indeed owe people something. It's asinine for any paying customer to think they aren't owed something by giving a corporation their money. We don't approach buying any other product with this absurd attitude.

Language breakdown here...

When someone say 'they don't owe you anything' - they aren't talking about after you've paid for something. Obviously if you've paid for something, they owe you what you paid for. The comment is about people thinking the relationship extends beyond what you've purchased.

 

[copcarguyp71]

Language breakdown here...

When someone say 'they don't owe you anything' - they aren't talking about after you've paid for something. Obviously if you've paid for something, they owe you what you paid for. The comment is about people thinking the relationship extends beyond what you've purchased.

I guess you could try to interpret it that way but in all honesty that is not the spirit in which it was meant. My read (and obviously others as well) was an accusational finger waving in our faces in outrage that we expect too much. Quite frankly I will expect whatever I feel is due to me for my hard earned money no matter if it is a hose end nozzle or a vacation. If I buy a$25 nozzle I expect quite a bit more than the one I bought at the dollar store.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Let me stop you there for several reasons-

1- WDW does indeed owe people something. It's asinine for any paying customer to think they aren't owed something by giving a corporation their money. We don't approach buying any other product with this absurd attitude. You pay a premium price to enter the parks and to stay at their hotels, eat the food, etc etc. You should have expectations about what you're paying for. It is not only the right of people to evaluate whether the product is worth the cost, it is the responsible thing to do.

2- People have high expectations because those are the standards Disney set for themselves prior to two decades ago. We didn't set the standard, Walt Disney and his old guard of quality oriented executives did (again they maintained these standards up until the mid 90's despite Walt himself having long since passed). We are simply holding them to their own standards, the core philosophies of the company. It is not some unattainable goal set by unrealistic expectations. We know the amazing things they were capable of, even back when they were an infinitely less powerful and less wealthy company, they have proven themselves entirely capable of meeting and even exceeded our expectations in the past.

The one thing wrong about that is that just because some of us are still holding them to certain standards, doesn't mean that they are still obligated to maintain those standards. That is what I have always meant when I have said "times change". They have lowered their standards in whatever effort they are trying to achieve, be it more profit or just plain stupidity, they set their own standards at this point and unless they start to show a real decline in customer attendance, it will fall on deaf ears. The only control we have is with our wallets. That's not to say that they cannot raise those standards again, but, it has to be to counter act something negative that is happening because they lowered them.

Like someone @BrerJon, I believe, said. When you say to an airline I don't like what you offered and follow it by no longer financially supporting it, you are directly influencing how and why they do business. Just complaining or pontificating on a fan board will do nothing. Continuing to support what is perceived as a lesser value actually says to them, "Gee, we must be doing good, look at all the people". It's not that it's not noble to call for better quality, it's just futile without the accompanied lack of financial support. And that quality evaluation must be a majority consensus. It's like peeing into the ocean and looking for the increase in the level. A few of us that now are still fans of the "early" Disney are getting fewer and fewer. To the non-experienced the place is still awe inspiring.

 

[DVCOwner]

The world is a lot different then it was in the 80's. Off Kilter was/is a popular attraction (although in my 30 years of going to Epcot, I have never seen it.) I don't think that they expected problems, but, it is never a sure thing how an emotional fan will react to the last show. It's just a precaution and way, way, way too much is being made of it. Like they say in those police shows... "nothing to see here... keep moving"

When I first watched the video at the end I was asking myself where is security. I was thinking that this was the bands greatest fans and they are going to want to take something home to remember this day. When I saw that lady get on the stage I could see everyone running up there to get something or something to sell on eBay. I think security was late in coming on, but I for one was glad to see that they did.

 

[flynnibus]

If I buy a$25 nozzle I expect quite a bit more than the one I bought at the dollar store.

Yes.. a $25 nozzle.. not a dollar one. But the nozzle company isn't going to treat you like their brother and give you the shirt off their back for buying their nozzle. Too frequently people think because they've been a loyal customer of Disney that there is some form of ownership of Disney or they deserve individual recognition from the crowd. At the end of the day... you were someone buying a nozzle that the company wants to keep selling nozzles too... not a family member.

 

[GrammieBee]

Ah, more doom, gloom and misery. We have been going to Disney World on and off since 1974 and have also visited Disneyland. We are well aware of what Disney World was and what it is now. If we based our knowledge of Disney only on these posts, we probably would never go there again.

We can only agree with what others have said. If you feel you are no longer receiving value for your money, or the magic has diminished, do something else. The United States is chock full of interesting and/or fun places to go and things to see and do. Give them a chance.

Having to make dinner reservations so far in advance is a real pain in the you know where. There are so many people in the parks wanting to eat in the same restaurants at the same time the advance reservations have become a necessary evil. However, to put it in perspective, there are some trendy restaurants in large cities where, unless you are famous or very important, you would have to make a reservation as far as a year in advance. (Hopefully, it would still be trendy by the time you got there.)

 

[copcarguyp71]

Yes.. a $25 nozzle.. not a dollar one. But the nozzle company isn't going to treat you like their brother and give you the shirt off their back for buying their nozzle. Too frequently people think because they've been a loyal customer of Disney that there is some form of ownership of Disney or they deserve individual recognition from the crowd. At the end of the day... you were someone buying a nozzle that the company wants to keep selling nozzles too... not a family member.

Ok, agree to disagree. But...what of those who own DVC and are unhappy...did they not buy a piece of Disney? Should they not expect a fair return?

 

[flynnibus]

Ok, agree to disagree. But...what of those who own DVC and are unhappy...did they not buy a piece of Disney? Should they not expect a fair return?

They bought prepaid vacations... if they think they 'bought a piece of disney' they need to take the hook out of their mouth.

 

[DVCOwner]

Got to look at the pictures of the new gift shop at the Haunted Mansion. Great attention to detail and another example of Disney turning things round. Still I want to say I do not book trips to Walt Disney World to see a act at Epcot or a gift shop at the Magic Kingdom, but I think Disney is turning things around. I for one am going to wait and see what Disney is going to provide in the way of new entertainment at Epcot.

 

[jakeman]

Let me stop you there for several reasons-

1- WDW does indeed owe people something. It's asinine for any paying customer to think they aren't owed something by giving a corporation their money. We don't approach buying any other product with this absurd attitude. You pay a premium price to enter the parks and to stay at their hotels, eat the food, etc etc. You should have expectations about what you're paying for. It is not only the right of people to evaluate whether the product is worth the cost, it is the responsible thing to do.

I guess you could try to interpret it that way but in all honesty that is not the spirit in which it was meant. My read (and obviously others as well) was an accusational finger waving in our faces in outrage that we expect too much. Quite frankly I will expect whatever I feel is due to me for my hard earned money no matter if it is a hose end nozzle or a vacation. If I buy a$25 nozzle I expect quite a bit more than the one I bought at the dollar store.

That's why value is subjective and threads like these, while cathartic, aren't very productive overall.