Wheelchair with no DAS

[Chi84]

I agree with your post overall, but I’d actually say the reason the ADA is law is because society *wasn’t* voluntarily taking action to be accessible and was happy to segregate those with disabilities, until the law indicated they weren’t allowed to anymore.

Now, views are changing and accessibility is beginning to be a more common way of thinking. But there’s still a long way to go, imo.

What you say is true of many public places, businesses, employers, etc. (I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were “happy” to segregate people with disabilities.) My point was that laws overall reflect what people believe is the right way for society to proceed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree with your post overall, but I’d actually say the reason the ADA is law is because society *wasn’t* voluntarily taking action to be accessible and was happy to segregate those with disabilities, until the law indicated they weren’t allowed to anymore.

Now, views are changing and accessibility is beginning to be a more common way of thinking. But there’s still a long way to go, imo.

It’s still very common for people to view accessible design as some sort of burden that they try to get around and avoid. Even when that isn’t the case, it’s still generally seen as something extra that is tacked on, not something integrated into the core design. Even a company like Disney which does so often do pretty well does things like only building the minimum number of accessible hotel rooms.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What you say is true of many public places, businesses, employers, etc. (I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were “happy” to segregate people with disabilities.) My point was that laws overall reflect what people believe is the right way for society to proceed.

The laws reflect what disability advocates spent years fighting for, similarly to how civil rights leaders had fought before them.

I don’t intend to be argumentative, but IMO the bolded statement does not adequately acknowledge the decadesa-long struggle of disability rights advocates, or the ongoing struggles in disability rights.

ETA: but getting off topic, so I’m stopping

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

It’s still very common for people to view accessible design as some sort of burden that they try to get around and avoid. Even when that isn’t the case, it’s still generally seen as something extra that is tacked on, not something integrated into the core design. Even a company like Disney which does so often do pretty well does things like only building the minimum number of accessible hotel rooms.

Most companies are that way. They focus on what is being inspected rather than expected. There are some exceptions to that.

 

[Prince-1]

I know this may be an unpopular opinion in times like these, but I just wonder why personality accountability and common sense isn't considered. If somebody can't handle walking around on their own two feet all day, and/or can't wait in long lines for whatever reason, why don't those people just choose to not go to a theme park all day? Should we made skiing, mountain climbing, or Scuba diving handicap accessible?

I get that parks have done some great things with accessibility, and the ADA law exists, but to me it just doesn't seem to be working out in practicality, and is putting an undo cost on the park and 98% of the guests. I just don't see what part of walking around in a theme park for 12 hours in the heat and riding fast rides makes people think that this would be an experience that all should experience? I don't understand why Disney can't just explain what the experience will be like, and wish people a great time on a cruise ship, at the beach, or at a baseball game if that doesn't sound right for them.

Just my take on the matter.

Your take shows a level of ignorance and complete lack of sympathy to people who need a wheelchair to get around.

 

[Chi84]

The laws reflect what disability advocates spent years fighting for, similarly to how civil rights leaders had fought before them.

I don’t intend to be argumentative, but IMO the bolded statement does not adequately acknowledge the decadesa-long struggle of disability rights advocates, or the ongoing struggles in disability rights.

ETA: but getting off topic, so I’m stopping

I don’t think we disagree at all. I didn’t mean to undervalue the efforts of disability rights advocates - only to point out that we have a representative form of government. Ultimately, those advocates were successful in getting our representatives to pass the laws. Clearly not everyone is on board and there is still much to be done in terms of protections and effective enforcement.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

I know this may be an unpopular opinion in times like these, but I just wonder why personality accountability and common sense isn't considered. If somebody can't handle walking around on their own two feet all day, and/or can't wait in long lines for whatever reason, why don't those people just choose to not go to a theme park all day? Should we made skiing, mountain climbing, or Scuba diving handicap accessible?

I get that parks have done some great things with accessibility, and the ADA law exists, but to me it just doesn't seem to be working out in practicality, and is putting an undo cost on the park and 98% of the guests. I just don't see what part of walking around in a theme park for 12 hours in the heat and riding fast rides makes people think that this would be an experience that all should experience? I don't understand why Disney can't just explain what the experience will be like, and wish people a great time on a cruise ship, at the beach, or at a baseball game if that doesn't sound right for them.

Just my take on the matter.

Wow, I would expect a response like this from a younger person that just hasn’t experienced “life” yet, but a 35 year old??
I’m going to go out on a limb and just say that you’re ignorant and have led a sheltered life and at the very least have very healthy parents who haven’t experienced any health disabilities…on August 3rd it’ll be my 16th anniversary of being diagnosed with MS…I used to be able to walk without any major difficulties, but now I’m walking less and less, but with my ECV, I can still enjoy EVERYTHING at WDW…every morning when I wake up, I just ask “the Man upstairs” if I can just walk (or even “scooter”) down the aisle when my daughters get married, I’ll be a happy camper.
That being said, I’m going to enjoy WDW as long as I can for my own enjoyment and now, just to p**s you off…I honestly hope and pray you never will have to deal with a medical problem like this whether it’s yourself, a friend or family member.
Just remember, karma is a b***h.

 

[MickeyCB]

I just wonder why personality accountability and common sense isn't considered. If somebody can't handle walking around on their own two feet all day, and/or can't wait in long lines for whatever reason, why don't those people just choose to not go to a theme park all day?

I assume in your obnoxious comment here you meant to say "personal accountability" whatever the H**L that's supposed to mean in reference to a person with a disability.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Man, I feel so bad for the innocent posters asking genuine questions about DAS because these threads always turn into shows.

 

[larryz]

I know this may be an unpopular opinion in times like these, but I just wonder why personality accountability and common sense isn't considered. If somebody can't handle walking around on their own two feet all day, and/or can't wait in long lines for whatever reason, why don't those people just choose to not go to a theme park all day? Should we made skiing, mountain climbing, or Scuba diving handicap accessible?

I get that parks have done some great things with accessibility, and the ADA law exists, but to me it just doesn't seem to be working out in practicality, and is putting an undo cost on the park and 98% of the guests. I just don't see what part of walking around in a theme park for 12 hours in the heat and riding fast rides makes people think that this would be an experience that all should experience? I don't understand why Disney can't just explain what the experience will be like, and wish people a great time on a cruise ship, at the beach, or at a baseball game if that doesn't sound right for them.

Just my take on the matter.

First of all, people with disabilities like to have fun. Theme parks are fun.

Secondly, every one of those activities you mentioned is enjoyed by people with various physical conditions that you find limiting. The difference between you and them: they don't consider them limits, they consider them challenges to be conquered.

Third, people in wheelchairs/scooters don't have to walk around the parks for 12 hours -- they're using those accommodations so they can enjoy the rides without becoming excessively tired or enduring additional pain from the exertion. Where rides can not be safely enjoyed, Disney warns riders with particular conditions via signs.

My take: your take on the matter could use some enlightenment. Consider volunteering at your local physical therapy and rehabilitation center to get your eyes opened.

 

[NickMaio]

I know this may be an unpopular opinion in times like these, but I just wonder why personality accountability and common sense isn't considered. If somebody can't handle walking around on their own two feet all day, and/or can't wait in long lines for whatever reason, why don't those people just choose to not go to a theme park all day? Should we made skiing, mountain climbing, or Scuba diving handicap accessible?

I get that parks have done some great things with accessibility, and the ADA law exists, but to me it just doesn't seem to be working out in practicality, and is putting an undo cost on the park and 98% of the guests. I just don't see what part of walking around in a theme park for 12 hours in the heat and riding fast rides makes people think that this would be an experience that all should experience? I don't understand why Disney can't just explain what the experience will be like, and wish people a great time on a cruise ship, at the beach, or at a baseball game if that doesn't sound right for them.

Just my take on the matter.

Spending important quality time with their loved ones..........

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I don’t think we disagree at all. I didn’t mean to undervalue the efforts of disability rights advocates - only to point out that we have a representative form of government. Ultimately, those advocates were successful in getting our representatives to pass the laws. Clearly not everyone is on board and there is still much to be done in terms of protections and effective enforcement.

One of the things we do well in America compared to other nations, is how we address accommodations. We are far from perfect in so many things, but this is one we can be proud of for the most part compared to European counterparts.
To @Trackmaster ...I have seen plenty of adaptive skiers on the mountains. All major resorts have a program.

Sports for Every Body - Vermont Adaptive Ski & Sports

Vermont Adaptive is a nationally recognized organization that empowers people of all abilities through inclusive sports and recreational programming regardless of ability to pay.

www.vermontadaptive.org

 

[Trackmaster]

Full disclosure, I am a person with ADHD and anxiety, and I do make full use of DAS. I just don't agree with it being available or existing. I think that the parks should have the ability to make their own system, and that people should be mature enough to be told no, and should be responsible enough to find a form of entertainment that works for them, and not expecting every business to bend to their will. I guess that makes me a heartless monster.

As I was saying, I'm somebody who benefits from it, but I empathize for all of the people who have to wait in 2 hour lines, hate waiting in line, apparently none of that matters because they're not disabled enough.

I agree that every stand-by line should be fully handicap accessible. I think that this is common sense. I think that the goal for the parks should be to create enough rides and capacity so that stand-by lines are 20 minutes or less on slower days of the year -- and the parks work with people who don't like waiting in line to communicate which times of the year will be slower.

Just letting a few people skip the line with "comeback times" puts a patch on the problem so they don't have as much of an incentive to solve it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Full disclosure, I am a person with ADHD and anxiety, and I do make full use of DAS. I just don't agree with it being available or existing. I think that the parks should have the ability to make their own system, and that people should be mature enough to be told no, and should be responsible enough to find a form of entertainment that works for them, and not expecting every business to bend to their will. I guess that makes me a heartless monster.

Having one disability doesn’t make you an expert on all disabilities. I don’t presume to be an expert on disabilities we don’t personally have experience with.

Disney does have the ability to make their own system. The ADA doesn’t dictate to Disney what system they may use, which is why it varies so much from amusement park to park. We recently went to Dutch wonderland. Their park requires disabled people to get a wristband at the front (no documentation required), then they wait in no lines at all - they go straight to the exit and board the next ride, and they get to ride 2x in a row without getting off. Lines were all under 30 mins in the middle of a July afternoon for everyone. We didn’t ride any more rides that day than a typical family would (*with* counting the double rides) - we were just able to have a similar day as typical families would, which we absolutely should be able to, as we paid the same entrance fees as everyone else did.

I’m not advocating for Disney to move to such a system, however DAS guests are also not responsible for Disney lines being 2+ hours.

But we have found a form of entertainment that works for our family. And that’s Disney, with accommodations. If you have an issue with that, that’s your problem.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Full disclosure, I am a person with ADHD and anxiety, and I do make full use of DAS. I just don't agree with it being available or existing. I think that the parks should have the ability to make their own system, and that people should be mature enough to be told no, and should be responsible enough to find a form of entertainment that works for them, and not expecting every business to bend to their will. I guess that makes me a heartless monster.

As I was saying, I'm somebody who benefits from it, but I empathize for all of the people who have to wait in 2 hour lines, hate waiting in line, apparently none of that matters because they're not disabled enough.

I agree that every stand-by line should be fully handicap accessible. I think that this is common sense. I think that the goal for the parks should be to create enough rides and capacity so that stand-by lines are 20 minutes or less on slower days of the year -- and the parks work with people who don't like waiting in line to communicate which times of the year will be slower.

Just letting a few people skip the line with "comeback times" puts a patch on the problem so they don't have as much of an incentive to solve it.

It’s just an incredibly unpopular opinion. I think some reactions are overblown…but I also think you knew you were throwing a Molotov straight up in the air in this and letting it land on your head.

 

[larryz]

Full disclosure, I am a person with ADHD and anxiety, and I do make full use of DAS. I just don't agree with it being available or existing. I think that the parks should have the ability to make their own system, and that people should be mature enough to be told no, and should be responsible enough to find a form of entertainment that works for them, and not expecting every business to bend to their will. I guess that makes me a heartless monster.

They've found something they can enjoy -- WDW, with the accommodations they're being accorded. And nobody called you heartless.

As I was saying, I'm somebody who benefits from it, but I empathize for all of the people who have to wait in 2 hour lines, hate waiting in line, apparently none of that matters because they're not disabled enough.

I'll admit wondering what it is about ADHD w/anxiety that makes it so difficult for you to wait in line that you require DAS as an accommodation. We have a DD diagnosed with that, and she does just fine in the lines.

I agree that every stand-by line should be fully handicap accessible. I think that this is common sense. I think that the goal for the parks should be to create enough rides and capacity so that stand-by lines are 20 minutes or less on slower days of the year -- and the parks work with people who don't like waiting in line to communicate which times of the year will be slower.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not sure it's legal to suggest to someone with a disability that they "should come back when it's not as crowded."

Just letting a few people skip the line with "comeback times" puts a patch on the problem so they don't have as much of an incentive to solve it.

That's the accommodation they provide for people who can't wait in long lines. Notice that doesn't apply to folks with mobility issues, as many attractions have been designed with wheelchairs and ECVs in mind.

 

[mergatroid]

I know this may be an unpopular opinion in times like these, but I just wonder why personality accountability and common sense isn't considered. If somebody can't handle walking around on their own two feet all day, and/or can't wait in long lines for whatever reason, why don't those people just choose to not go to a theme park all day? Should we made skiing, mountain climbing, or Scuba diving handicap accessible?

I get that parks have done some great things with accessibility, and the ADA law exists, but to me it just doesn't seem to be working out in practicality, and is putting an undo cost on the park and 98% of the guests. I just don't see what part of walking around in a theme park for 12 hours in the heat and riding fast rides makes people think that this would be an experience that all should experience? I don't understand why Disney can't just explain what the experience will be like, and wish people a great time on a cruise ship, at the beach, or at a baseball game if that doesn't sound right for them.

Just my take on the matter.

Perhaps because they want to go and why shouldn't they go if they want to?

 

[crazy4disney]

Having one disability doesn’t make you an expert on all disabilities. I don’t presume to be an expert on disabilities we don’t personally have experience with.

Disney does have the ability to make their own system. The ADA doesn’t dictate to Disney what system they may use, which is why it varies so much from amusement park to park. We recently went to Dutch wonderland. Their park requires disabled people to get a wristband at the front (no documentation required), then they wait in no lines at all - they go straight to the exit and board the next ride, and they get to ride 2x in a row without getting off. Lines were all under 30 mins in the middle of a July afternoon for everyone. We didn’t ride any more rides that day than a typical family would (*with* counting the double rides) - we were just able to have a similar day as typical families would, which we absolutely should be able to, as we paid the same entrance fees as everyone else did.

I’m not advocating for Disney to move to such a system, however DAS guests are also not responsible for Disney lines being 2+ hours.

But we have found a form of entertainment that works for our family. And that’s Disney, with accommodations. If you have an issue with that, that’s your problem.

Hershey works same way. Walk right up and ride no wait nothing. You go thru their version of a FP queue or the exit if the ride doesnt have one.
This is why ive stated countless times DAS helps but its far from some tremendous advantage during the FP days and why i rarely used it bc i was able to
Get so many FP. DAS was used mainly for say a reride of something or maybe to fill a gap on some shorter lined ride where you only hung around for say 10-15 minutes where you grabbed a snack while waiting.
You can argue both ways but imo DAS should be no longer than a 30 minute return or even maybe 45 max and if you want to implement a system where if you want to reride it then its whatever the posted wait time is But again this is their system and you have to abide by it. Bc honestly people who literally cant wait can have DAS and on a busy day i dk get a 7DMT, PP and thats literally over 4 hours in a park and youve ridden 2 rides and its now 1pm. Anything is better than nothing but i feel that they can better the service but understand why and bottom line DAS is. So people dont have to wait and thats exactly what it provides so tough to argue that as well. Hence why their are valid cases both ways.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Hershey works same way. Walk right up and ride no wait nothing. You go thru their version of a FP queue or the exit if the ride doesnt have one.
This is why ive stated countless times DAS helps but its far from some tremendous advantage during the FP days and why i rarely used it bc i was able to
Get so many FP. DAS was used mainly for say a reride of something or maybe to fill a gap on some shorter lined ride where you only hung around for say 10-15 minutes where you grabbed a snack while waiting.
You can argue both ways but imo DAS should be no longer than a 30 minute return or even maybe 45 max and if you want to implement a system where if you want to reride it then its whatever the posted wait time is But again this is their system and you have to abide by it. Bc honestly people who literally cant wait can have DAS and on a busy day i dk get a 7DMT, PP and thats literally over 4 hours in a park and youve ridden 2 rides and its now 1pm. Anything is better than nothing but i feel that they can better the service but understand why and bottom line DAS is. So people dont have to wait and thats exactly what it provides so tough to argue that as well. Hence why their are valid cases both ways.

People who don’t have DAS would also have to wait 4 hours for those two rides. That’s the point. Even playing field, just one waits in line and one waits outside of line. It’s not meant to be an advantage.

 

[crazy4disney]

People who don’t have DAS would also have to wait 4 hours for those two rides. That’s the point. Even playing field, just one waits in line and one waits outside of line. It’s not meant to be an advantage.

Im fully aware how it works etc but you are only defending my case when i said it wasnt some huge advantage that people were claiming it to be. Before it went digital the only pain was going to each ride to get a return time but plus side was plenty of times CM would let you ride then & iirc they maxed out the return time where you didnt have to wait the entire length to come back.