What's Still On and What's Now Off

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Disney had been profiting about $12 million a day from the combined parks, cruise lines, adventures, and merch departments world wide. It is now not profiting in that 'experiences' division.

However, not profiting is not the same as 'losing', depending on how one defines 'losing.'

If you mean, not reaping in that profit, then it's losing $12 million per day.

If you mean going backwards, as in deficits, and 'going in the red'... that's a more difficult number to come up with. Yes, Disney's 'experiences' division isn't taking in gross revenue. But it also has a lot less expenses now. If it had no expenses during the lockdown, then it wouldn't be 'losing' any money at all. But, there are still some expenses happening during the lockdown. And those continuing expenses is how much the experiences division is losing per day. And thus, it could be the quoted $350,000 per day in deficits, rather than the $12 million per day in missing profits.
 

Epcotfan21

Well-Known Member
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No way losing 350K a day. $100 ticket x 100,000 guests per day all in 4 theme parks = $10 million per day not including cast member salaries for 80K cast members, food and beverage, merchandise, parking, resort hotel stays, water parks, Disney springs. And that seems like a slow day. Disney is losing millions of dollars per day.
Easily. Straight bleeding money right now.
 

412

Well-Known Member
No way losing 350K a day. $100 ticket x 100,000 guests per day all in 4 theme parks = $10 million per day not including cast member salaries for 80K cast members, food and beverage, merchandise, parking, resort hotel stays, water parks, Disney springs. And that seems like a slow day. Disney is losing millions of dollars per day.

How much WDW "loses" per day of shutdown can be calculated in different ways.
  • Actual cost. When the parks are shutdown, how much do they still cost to run? How much is Disney still paying cast members? How much in utilities? How much in non-cancellable contracts? How much in supplies for animals?
  • Opportunity cost. What is the difference between WDW's operating income if the parks were open and their operating income now that the parks are closed? How much potential money is Disney missing out on?
The $350k/day figure (if it's accurate) is referring to the actual cost. You're talking about opportunity cost. Both numbers can be helpful.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
It's wasn't a boost - it just kept them open. The work wasn't very profitable. They continued to struggle in the aftermath and really survived by Disney being smart enough pivot to live action in the decade afterwards to deal with the cost and labor issues.

That's exactly what I meant by a boost. It kept them open -- without the government propaganda films, Disney may have ceased to exist in the 1940s. They didn't really rebound until Cinderella in 1950.

Of course that's tied in with World War 2 in multiple ways both positive and negative, and it's impossible to know what things would have looked like if there was never a war at all. But Disney was struggling badly at that time.
 
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WDW Pro

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
How much WDW "loses" per day of shutdown can be calculated in different ways.
  • Actual cost. When the parks are shutdown, how much do they still cost to run? How much is Disney still paying cast members? How much in utilities? How much in non-cancellable contracts? How much in supplies for animals?
  • Opportunity cost. What is the difference between WDW's operating income if the parks were open and their operating income now that the parks are closed? How much potential money is Disney missing out on?
The $350k/day figure (if it's accurate) is referring to the actual cost. You're talking about opportunity cost. Both numbers can be helpful.

$350,000 a day doesn't even come close to the cost of upkeep for all of WDW. Cast members have to be paid so that when it reopens you still have people who can train and operate. Landscaping over broad areas has to continue. Maintenance has to continue, even if reduced. There are electrical needs for an area the size of a city. Veterinary and animal food costs continue for AK.

Just as a thought experiment, let's consider Spaceship Earth. It is currently "closed". But what does that mean? It doesn't mean that it gets to just sit. You have to cycle the vehicles once or twice a week. You have to continue to air condition the structure, which I believe is about 150,000 square feet... and that's non-stop. You don't get to turn it off and let it crank up to 100 degrees in the Florida sun.
 
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Clyde Birdbrain

Unknown Member
Premium Member
$350,000 seems extremely low. Even if all 80,000 cast members make just minimum wage, that alone would be 80,000 x $8.46 x 8 hours = $5.4 million per day.

I'm concerned that this crisis will go on for a long time. China has been in lockdown for 2 months and they did a very good job keeping it under control, basically containing it to one province. In the U.S. it is everywhere right now and we are not implementing consistent lockdown measures.

Even if in the summer we manage to get the virus under control, there is a chance of another peak later this year or early next year, and measures may need to be reimposed. It was just one person in China that started all this, so as long as the virus is going around and we don't have vaccines and medicine, and there are not enough people with immunity, people will need to be careful.

When the parks re-open, guests are not suddenly all going to come back, especially after seeing the increasing number of deaths and health care horror stories in the news in the coming weeks. Add to this a possible huge recession with millions of people out of work and I'm not surprised that they're thinking of canceling these projects.

But even if they cancel the Star Wars Hotel for now, they could always revisit it when things get better. I can't imagine that they would bulldoze the progress they've made so far. It's likely to just sit empty for a while until they finish the project.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Losing 350k a day? Gotta be way more than that, imo.
No way losing 350K a day. $100 ticket x 100,000 guests per day all in 4 theme parks = $10 million per day not including cast member salaries for 80K cast members, food and beverage, merchandise, parking, resort hotel stays, water parks, Disney springs. And that seems like a slow day. Disney is losing millions of dollars per day.

That number is off...I have no idea who typed that with a straight face.

To be fair...my best friend - @MisterPenguin does a better indication of what is really happening in his post
I dont think they're going down the tubes yet. Like I said, once the gates open again, the junkies will need their fix, regardless of the state of the parks.
That’s a given...but they can’t operate Disney parks with capacity or attendance a fraction of normal. It’s not designed that way/function.
Or, if their expectation is a 40-50% drop off in room & DVC reservations, just mothball the resorts that aren't on the Skyliner or the Boardwalk. Open World Showcase via the International Gateway for the restaurants and festivals, and crack-on in super fast time with completing the structural changes at the front of the Park (and with GOTG) so that by the time tourism recovers more fully in summer 2021, EPCOT is fully re-configured.
Can’t really keep DVC spots closed...they’ve sold like 225,000 contracts on it? Perhaps more.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
If the media were driving the world into fear, governments wouldn't be forced into imposing strict lockdowns to stop people from recklessly ignoring medics' pleas.
It's been very disheartening listening to so many governors, mayors, and yes - even the president - basically forced to beg people to do as their told and then to still see people not following simple instructions.
 

Calmdownnow

Well-Known Member
Can’t really keep DVC spots closed...they’ve sold like 225,000 contracts on it? Perhaps more.
They can if people chose to bank their points and use them in 2021/22 or if there are large numbers of foreclosures that mean points are not going to be used. At the moment, nobody can predict the demand for Disney rooms that will exist going forward. This board isn't a good predictor of future demand because so many members are heavily invested in the Disney dream. I also think that people don't necessarily get graphs and statistics so they don't realize that sayings such as "flatten the curve" often are implying that while the immediate surge will not be as steep, if all communities are not firmly locked-down, the infections will still continue to appear but over a longer time period.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
It's been very disheartening listening to so many governors, mayors, and yes - even the president - basically forced to beg people to do as their told and then to still see people not following simple instructions.
It’s not just the outright disobedience...

It’s obvious that many people just don’t pay attention to the news...let alone public announcements. Those that are still out are doing their normal stuff and they are in everybody’s faces.

I see why the restrictions are being heavily enforced elsewhere. And ours need to be now to keep damage to a minimum.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
They can if people chose to bank their points and use them in 2021/22 or if there are large numbers of foreclosures that mean points are not going to be used. At the moment, nobody can predict the demand for Disney rooms that will exist going forward. This board isn't a good predictor of future demand because so many members are heavily invested in the Disney dream. I also think that people don't necessarily get graphs and statistics so they don't realize that sayings such as "flatten the curve" often are implying that while the immediate surge will not be as steep, if all communities are not firmly locked-down, the infections will still continue to appear but over a longer time period.
I don’t have the answers...

I’m just postulating that you can’t really reopen and ask DVC to stay away for any reason...nor would they want to.
 

choco choco

Well-Known Member
It's wasn't a boost - it just kept them open. The work wasn't very profitable. They continued to struggle in the aftermath and really survived by Disney being smart enough pivot to live action in the decade afterwards to deal with the cost and labor issues.

As I understand it from what I've read, Walt was tired of making the package films that were heavily compromised due to penny pinching and the propaganda films that were not any sort of artistic expression. All it allowed the company to do was barely tread water. So he put all the resources into one last animated film with the type of exacting quality and vision that he expected from something with his name on it; basically betting the company by going out in a blaze of glory rather than fade away.

That film was Cinderella, and the rest is history.
 

TJJohn12

Well-Known Member
Lol...I’ve quickly become addicted to instacart at wegmans...not going back

Wegmans was the only grocery store I've felt comfortable stepping into in the last few weeks: sanitizer stations everywhere around the store (every other aisle or so), meat and bread actually in stock, employees being taken care of by only having every other checkout open for distancing, tape lines for distancing at checkout lines, employees armed with fresh gloves for every checkout order like surgeons.

I suspect that some of what (the good, Best 100 employers) grocery stores learn in the next few months will translate to WDW and other larger places as they phase opening come late summer or early fall. Helpful visual cues and the tools for safety widely distributed are huge early lessons.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Wegmans was the only grocery store I've felt comfortable stepping into in the last few weeks: sanitizer stations everywhere around the store (every other aisle or so), meat and bread actually in stock, employees being taken care of by only having every other checkout open for distancing, tape lines for distancing at checkout lines, employees armed with fresh gloves for every checkout order like surgeons.

I suspect that some of what (the good, Best 100 employers) grocery stores learn in the next few months will translate to WDW and other larger places as they phase opening come late summer or early fall. Helpful visual cues and the tools for safety widely distributed are huge early lessons.

I wouldn’t be scared to go in...I love wegmans and have no doubt they lead the pack...I’m just getting lazy...

I have an aunt who owned a couple of franchised grocery stores (in the Pittsburgh area...so the chain is easily identified there today) that I can remember talking about how impressive Wegmans was from trade shows back to the 80’s.

It’s consistently the best grocer in the US. Not surprising.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Or people do not trust the "facts" being shared. There is a growing community of equally educated experts who are now raising doubts about the so-called Flattening the Curve model that is being promoted as the reason for the lockdowns. I have no desire to debate who is correct, just sharing that their are differing opinions. Plus, the lockdowns are likely not going to be very effective given how many "essential" businesses are left open.

Wondering how much longer before we get a "Papers Please" prompt driving to another state...

This is veering too close to political. So I’ll pass on this cheese on the board 😉
 
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