What's going to happen with Annual Passes?

[TrainsOfDisney]

I can totally see this happening. Like a DVC style membership but just for the parks. For $1000 you get a 500 points or something like that. Christmas and Easter will cost 25 points a day. Random Wednesday in September would 8 points. The more money the more points you get. More popular times, more expensive points wise.

Yes! And make the ”in demand” days have a limited number of membership reservations available so they can sell out in 5 seconds due to ”unprecedented demand!” - it’s brilliant!

 

[monothingie]

Oh for sure. But it also doesn’t help when local competition is outdoing Disney massively, and their biggest competitor has one of the greatest coasters ever created that just opened.

Disney “believes” it has no local competition.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Oh for sure. But it also doesn’t help when local competition is outdoing Disney massively, and their biggest competitor has one of the greatest coasters ever created that just opened.

Is Disney suffering for attendance now?

 

[Bocabear]

Is Disney suffering for attendance now?

OMG no! The parks feel more crowded than ever...even through this "Reduced Capacity" period...It still feels very busy. Lines are still very long for everything...During an afternoon of thunderstorms and drenching rain, Rock N Roller Coaster was still over an hour wait and all the other rides were packed as well...
Hotel reservations are as hard as ever to get and because a lot of the restaurants are still closed, Dining Reservations or same day are impossible... So I would say No, they are not hurting for attendance at all.

 

[bcoachable]

Well, darn.
I thought this new thread would have our resident insiders spilling some Annual Pass beanage...
but alas, it has slipped all the way to the second page...
Maybe if I “bump” it to the top, someone will give us an idea what the plan is to bring these back...

 

[TK294]

I'm sure he dances in the street every time someone chose not to renew.....and the AP refund thread....he must see that as too good too be true

We just recently moved from NJ to the Orlando area. We've been in DVC for almost 15 years and have had annual passes most years, including now. I never understood why AP holders are looked at as a low spending group.
For starters, Disney gets a tidy sum up front for each pass holder over the age of 3. This helps them plan expenditures because its a guaranteed revenue stream that won't decide to cancel and spend their money elsewhere, as it's already in the Mouse's pocket. Then in order to make the pass purchase worthwhile, pass holders go to WDW parks instead of alternate entertainment. This inevitably leads to purchases of food and beverage, whether at Mobile Order, Table Service or a kiosk. It also increases the exposure passholders have to the latest Disney merchandise, and anyone who has worked in retail knows that the more a customer looks at an item, the more likely they are to purchase it.
The best part is that unlike a family on a once in a lifetime trip, the passholders are able to do this more than once a year.
Many of these reasons are similar to why Disney pushes DVC even though rack rate at most their properties is higher - it's a guaranteed source of income with customers that don't need much convincing to spend their hard earned money at Disney.

 

[TK294]

I can totally see this happening. Like a DVC style membership but just for the parks. For $1000 you get a 500 points or something like that. Christmas and Easter will cost 25 points a day. Random Wednesday in September would 8 points. The more money the more points you get. More popular times, more expensive points wise.

Aren't the different tiers of Annual Pass doing the same thing? My gold pass prevents me from going during the busiest 4 weeks of the year (Easter and Christmas seasons). For those who decide to pay more, can play more.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

Aren't the different tiers of Annual Pass doing the same thing? My gold pass prevents me from going during the busiest 4 weeks of the year (Easter and Christmas seasons). For those who decide to pay more, can play more.

Yes but the only difference is that eventually you'd run out of points and have to buy more. Where with the APs even with blackouts you can use it as much as you want when not blacked out.
Gold pass you'd be able to use as much as you want for 48 weeks. With the new plan you'd only wind up with like 62 days if using my 500 point plan with going on my example 8 point days. You want more than 62 days, give Cheapek more money!

 

[Goofnut1980]

That's my worry. Even things that may not on the surface seem drastic could have great impact. Say, if they eliminated free parking from the AP. The locals that go 4x a month could end up paying more in parking than they do on tickets. Even for someone like me who walks into a park about 25x a year on average - that's an extra ~$600 a year on top of the AP price. And they ain't lowering the AP price to account for charging for parking.

In 2019 when I had both the WDW AP and DL AP - I had to pay $300 extra on my DL AP for parking to be included. Otherwise, $25 per visit. My Signature DL AP cost $1250 for a year yet my Gold WDW AP only cost $700. I was going 3-4 times a week at DL. That cost would have been nuts.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would doubt they would have one system for Florida and a totally different system for California and Paris but of course there’s no way to know for sure without making an unfortunate deal with a sea witch.

Chapek doesn’t like AP’s... I wouldn’t be surprised to see the whole program go away to be replaced with a limited “yearly membership” that offers so many days per year.

There’s really no comparison to wdw on any level...including with APs

Has anyone checked the Park Availability Calendar lately? If you are an AP you have the pick of the litter....most days available other than weekends. Wonder if they'll play with that and reduce the allocation a bit?

The optimist in me hopes it drives the resumption of sales more than allocation reductions...the idea they want “less attendance” is a complete praetorian myth

And what would he do with the Florida Resident AP program?

Strangle it...would be preferable. But they still need it in the calendar

They will fill as it gets closer to the date. Since we can only hold 3 days at a time most locals aren't booking any more than a few weeks out max. Some weekdays may be allocated if it's week of and they aren't filled, maybe they're already doing that now. It's just hard to tell.

Their concentration on APs doesn’t have anything to do with locals...it’s about the 10,000 timeshare rooms. Without those...they’d be doing the same thing that’s going to happen in Anaheim

Plus, if they don’t fill, I’m pretty sure they’re just selling day of tickets at the gate, right?

I would imagine the amount of day of ticket sales is nearly zero...they have systematically weeded them out for decades.

Oh for sure. But it also doesn’t help when local competition is outdoing Disney massively, and their biggest competitor has one of the greatest coasters ever created that just opened.

Kinda a myth...Disney does not suffer from local competition as much as Florida residents/Disney APs want to believe. Everyone just keeps paying.

Eliminating the monthly payment option on AP’s would probably cull the herd to an acceptable number for Bob. They could then bring it back the next time there’s an economic downturn and they need to entice guests.

I’m surprised they ever started it...to be honest. Don’t think they’d ever do that again.

Disney “believes” it has no local competition.

Buy and large...they are right

OMG no! The parks feel more crowded than ever...even through this "Reduced Capacity" period...It still feels very busy. Lines are still very long for everything...During an afternoon of thunderstorms and drenching rain, Rock N Roller Coaster was still over an hour wait and all the other rides were packed as well...
Hotel reservations are as hard as ever to get and because a lot of the restaurants are still closed, Dining Reservations or same day are impossible... So I would say No, they are not hurting for attendance at all.

Fastpass is a crowd management system...it didn’t start that way...but when you add 25% attendance with no park expansion in 20 years...you let it be what it became.

We just recently moved from NJ to the Orlando area. We've been in DVC for almost 15 years and have had annual passes most years, including now. I never understood why AP holders are looked at as a low spending group.
For starters, Disney gets a tidy sum up front for each pass holder over the age of 3. This helps them plan expenditures because its a guaranteed revenue stream that won't decide to cancel and spend their money elsewhere, as it's already in the Mouse's pocket. Then in order to make the pass purchase worthwhile, pass holders go to WDW parks instead of alternate entertainment. This inevitably leads to purchases of food and beverage, whether at Mobile Order, Table Service or a kiosk. It also increases the exposure passholders have to the latest Disney merchandise, and anyone who has worked in retail knows that the more a customer looks at an item, the more likely they are to purchase it.
The best part is that unlike a family on a once in a lifetime trip, the passholders are able to do this more than once a year.
Many of these reasons are similar to why Disney pushes DVC even though rack rate at most their properties is higher - it's a guaranteed source of income with customers that don't need much convincing to spend their hard earned money at Disney.

I can answer this one with no equivocation...

because it’s as much about what you spend on as it is the dollar amount? What do APs not buy as much of overtime?

 

[TK294]

There’s really no comparison to wdw on any level...including with APs

The optimist in me hopes it drives the resumption of sales more than allocation reductions...the idea they want “less attendance” is a complete praetorian myth

Strangle it...would be preferable. But they still need it in the calendar

Their concentration on APs doesn’t have anything to do with locals...it’s about the 10,000 timeshare rooms. Without those...they’d be doing the same thing that’s going to happen in Anaheim

I can answer this one with no equivocation...

because it’s as much about what you spend on as it is the dollar amount? What do APs not buy as much of overtime?

Speaking just for myself and a number of other families I know that have an AP, most rent less hotel rooms now. This is mainly a function of using DVC points for stays. We tend to buy less plush toy merch, but that is more correlated to my children getting older.
Most of the AP holders/DVC members I knew from NJ would wind up booking extra stays on Disney property without spending DVC points. More money for the Mouse.
If I am missing something, please advise! I find your posts educational.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

There’s really no comparison to wdw on any level...including with APs

Correct. There will almost certainly be no parity between the WDW AP program and whatever DLR is going to announce.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Speaking just for myself and a number of other families I know that have an AP, most rent less hotel rooms now. This is mainly a function of using DVC points for stays. We tend to buy less plush toy merch, but that is more correlated to my children getting older.
Most of the AP holders/DVC members I knew from NJ would wind up booking extra stays on Disney property without spending DVC points. More money for the Mouse.
If I am missing something, please advise! I find your posts educational.

...as much as 90% profit

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There’s really no comparison to wdw on any level...including with APs

Correct. There will almost certainly be no parity between the WDW AP program and whatever DLR is going to announce.

You can’t compare things that are identical... so yes obviously there are differences. But to claim WDW is of no comparison to any of the other Disney Properties? Not in my opinion. But I’m willing to compare WDW to Dollywood any day so that’s me.

In the past, Disneyland and WDW had very similar AP programs. I could see them using this “opportunity” to create a new program for both. Or they could create separate programs. I could see it going either way and as I said I don’t think anyone knows for sure unless they have made a deal with a Disney Villian to predict the future! (Hades, Ursula, Pressler, take your pick! )

 

[Disney Glimpses]

You can’t compare things that are identical... so yes obviously there are differences. But to claim WDW is of no comparison to any of the other Disney Properties? Not in my opinion. But I’m willing to compare WDW to Dollywood any day so that’s me.

In the past, Disneyland and WDW had very similar AP programs. I could see them using this “opportunity” to create a new program for both. Or they could create separate programs. I could see it going either way and as I said I don’t think anyone knows for sure unless they have made a deal with a Disney Villian to predict the future! (Hades, Ursula, Pressler, take your pick! )

So, I didn't mean that similar programs don't or didn't exist. What I meant is that the demographic of WDW APs is unique despite the program being similar to others. Point being, there's no reason to believe they will sunset the WDW AP program because it doesn't suffer from the same pain points that the DLR program did.

 

[DoleWhipDrea]

APs are insurance that guests will continue to visit the parks and spend money. No, not as much as once-in-a-lifetime tourists, but it's still a reliable and therefore valuable resource of income.

DLR had to adjust their program because Southern CA is overpopulated and practically everyone gets APs to the various parks if they can manage it. The monthly payment plans (introduced during the recession) was a way to make the program seem more affordable when in reality that's when they started raising the prices to obscene levels. But when you can pay "as little as $35/month," it sounds a lot more enticing. So the program became unmanageable at DLR and crowding became a very real problem when before 2005 it wasn't so bad.

WDW's AP numbers have been nowhere near as intense as DLR's and is manageable, and therefore valuable to Disney to continue (with whatever adjustments may be coming with FP in the future.)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So, I didn't mean that similar programs don't or didn't exist. What I meant is that the demographic of WDW APs is unique despite the program being similar to others. Point being, there's no reason to believe they will sunset the WDW AP program because it doesn't suffer from the same pain points that the DLR program did.

I’d be willing to bet (the farm) that WDW’s APs pack the whallup as far as the prized “per day spending” far more than any pass program anywhere.

one of the things that is often thrown around when describing Disneyland APs is that many “don’t even eat dinner there”...which is quite opposite of people driving to Epcot from Tampa to eat at a table service and leave.

having people show to only go on rides does absolutely nothing for the Walt Disney company...which is why they try to avoid building them at all costs these days.

 

[Dad 2 M & M]

The optimist in me hopes it drives the resumption of sales more than allocation reductions...the idea they want “less attendance” is a complete praetorian myth

Strangle it...would be preferable. But they still need it in the calendar

seems the AP sales will resume at some point in the future; any chance is AP having the most Park Ressie availability is strategic to drive up $demand$ for resumption of sales?

Florida AP - what would the marketing pixie dust look like if they did strangle?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

seems the AP sales will resume at some point in the future; any chance is AP having the most Park Ressie availability is strategic to drive up $demand$ for resumption of sales?

Florida AP - what would the marketing pixie dust look like if they did strangle?

It’s possible...

the point of Florida passes (I put them in a different category than the full price APs)...is to fill out the edges...particularly in the non traditional vacation periods

they don’t value them enough anymore

 

[Dad 2 M & M]

It’s possible...

the point of Florida passes (I put them in a different category than the full price APs)...is to fill out the edges...particularly in the non traditional vacation periods

they don’t value them enough anymore

We see the Florida AP very similar.......while current value (TDO's value)has to be as close to zero/long past point of inflection as ever, if it was short term (meaning any non permanent term) eliminated, how long to ramp up when the program is needed again......size/duration of the laggard effect?